Do penalties for smokers and the obese make sense?

slimvictor

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"Darkness cannot be dissipated with more darkness.
Faced with the high cost of caring for smokers and overeaters, experts say society must grapple with a blunt question: Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die prematurely from their unhealthy habits?

Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers' estimates.

And attempts to curb smoking and unhealthy eating frequently lead to backlash: Witness the current legal tussle over New York City's first-of-its-kind limits on the size of sugary beverages and the vicious fight last year in California over a ballot proposal to add a $1-per-pack cigarette tax, which was ultimately defeated.

"This is my life. I should be able to do what I want," said Sebastian Lopez, a college student from Queens, speaking last September when the New York City Board of Health approved the soda size rules.

Critics also contend that tobacco- and calorie-control measures place a disproportionately heavy burden on poor people. That's because they:

—Smoke more than the rich, and have higher obesity rates.

—Have less money so sales taxes hit them harder. One study last year found poor, nicotine-dependent smokers in New York — a state with very high cigarette taxes — spent as much as a quarter of their entire income on smokes.

—Are less likely to have a car to shop elsewhere if the corner bodega or convenience store stops stocking their vices.

Critics call these approaches unfair, and believe they have only a marginal effect. "Ultimately these things are weak tea," said Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a physician and fellow at the right-of-center think tank, the American Enterprise Institute.

Gottlieb's view is debatable. There are plenty of public health researchers that can show smoking control measures have brought down smoking rates and who will argue that smoking taxes are not regressive so long as money is earmarked for programs that help poor people quit smoking.

And debate they will. There always seems to be a fight whenever this kind of public health legislation comes up. And it's a fight that can go in all sorts of directions. For example, some studies even suggest that because smokers and obese people die sooner, they may actually cost society less than healthy people who live much longer and develop chronic conditions like Alzheimer's disease.

So let's return to the original question: Why provoke a backlash? If 1 in 5 U.S. adults smoke, and 1 in 3 are obese, why not just get off their backs and let them go on with their (probably shortened) lives?

Because it's not just about them, say some health economists, bioethicists and public health researchers.

"Your freedom is likely to be someone else's harm," said Daniel Callahan, senior research scholar at a bioethics think-tank, the Hastings Center.

Smoking has the most obvious impact. Studies have increasingly shown harm to nonsmokers who are unlucky enough to work or live around heavy smokers. And several studies have shown heart attacks and asthma attack rates fell in counties or cities that adopted big smoking bans.

"When you ban smoking in public places, you're protecting everyone's health, including and especially the nonsmoker," said S. Jay Olshansky, a professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago's School of Public Health.

It can be harder to make the same argument about soda-size restrictions or other legislative attempts to discourage excessive calorie consumption, Olshansky added.

"When you eat yourself to death, you're pretty much just harming yourself," he said.

But that viewpoint doesn't factor in the burden to everyone else of paying for the diabetes care, heart surgeries and other medical expenses incurred by obese people, noted John Cawley, a health economist at Cornell University.

"If I'm obese, the health care costs are not totally borne by me. They're borne by other people in my health insurance plan and — when I'm older — by Medicare," Cawley said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...for-smokers-and-the-obese-make-sense/1867201/
 
So yea, lets just let all the smokers and fat people die, who mostly consist of the poor, it's just easier, it doesn't matter that they are people, they made their bed now they can lay in it. Genius…
 
So yea, lets just let all the smokers and fat people die, who mostly consist of the poor, it's just easier, it doesn't matter that they are people, they made their bed now they can lay in it. Genius…

Where does the article say to just let them die?
 
no where but just letting people die for their bad healthy choices, i dunno that's kind of messed up. You'd have to be sure that they were ill to terminally ill due to their own vices rather than some other factor. It's complicated as fast food, cheap frozen foods and those fuckers who modify corn are the bigger culprits. Maybe we should let these corporations face their inevitable death rather than giving them tax breaks and bailing them out?

this article is dumb but raises some interesting points unintentionally.

why not just let all the poor people die? well who the fuck is going to do all your stuff rich people? people with old money sitting on their asses need poor people more than poor people need them. Same for the rest of society.

i smoke but i'm not obese but i feel i should be able to do whatever the fuck i want to do. If society wants to provide free ecigs for me then i'll gladly switch until then ill keep on smoking and if society also wants to push healthy food to the poor then that's obviously the answer, not to just let them die. fucking stupid article.
 
Where does the article say to just let them die?

the first line makes it pretty clear that the author (excuse me...the "experts") thinks that smokers and fatties should be left to die IMO. I don't see how anyone could glean anything else from it.
 
This isn't even an op-ed piece. The writer isn't expressing his opinion. He's simply reporting what people are saying. The central idea of the article is that something must be done.

I agree that something must be done. 23536's solution is: begin mass production of dexamphetamine and re-legalize it, so it can be sold over the counter. Bye bye obesity epidemic.

President Obama:
 
I think obesity is essentially created by corporate advertising. Reduce the misconceptions (food is happiness) in culture, reduce obesity. I don't think drugs are needed in 99% of cases, but I'd definitely be up for a more comprehensive system for helping overweight people become healthy. If they don't participate in this "program" then I'd say alright, fine them.
 
I think obesity is essentially created by corporate advertising. Reduce the misconceptions (food is happiness) in culture, reduce obesity. I don't think drugs are needed in 99% of cases, but I'd definitely be up for a more comprehensive system for helping overweight people become healthy. If they don't participate in this "program" then I'd say alright, fine them.

obesity is a systemic cultural problem. from the bad food we eat, how much, when.. to how we live sedentary lifestyles, with car transportation to reduce walking to a minimum and no physical effort office jobs, its easy to see that the causes of obesity permeate every aspect of our culture.

educating kids to eat right and exercise is essential. it will be mandated soon to ensure the future generation is fit to die for America.
 
I would say not to be so eager to crap on smokers & fat people. I have been both...
 
obesity is a systemic cultural problem. from the bad food we eat, how much, when.. to how we live sedentary lifestyles, with car transportation to reduce walking to a minimum and no physical effort office jobs, its easy to see that the causes of obesity permeate every aspect of our culture.

educating kids to eat right and exercise is essential. it will be mandated soon to ensure the future generation is fit to die for America.

Thanks for this. I agree.
 
Everyone here has raised excellent points and solutions to the problem. We need to get rid of toxins/nonstop consumption instead of getting rid of life saving procedures for people who expressed their rights of freedom (in a minute way, but still) by means of a Big Mac or cigarette.
No matter what someone would choose to put into their body, my solution would never be to just let them die because of a choice/mistake they have made, all people deserve the right to have their life saved or extended.
 
Food should = nutrition, nothing else. Shame it's not.

I've never understood the poor vs obesity/smoking arguments. Can't afford to smoke? Don't, save money. Fat? Eat less, save money.
How do poor fat people even get fat? Do they spend all their money on food and then get fat?
In UK schools we're told about the food pyramid and whatnot, but it's crap. They don't explain weight loss, or anything to do with budgeting actually. Even in college we do a healthy living thing which is filled with myths and false information. While education about this is great, this kind of education isn't.

Not even bothered about smokers as long as they aren't blowing the smoke into my face or complaining about quitting/health problems stemming from smoking.
 
I've never understood the poor vs obesity/smoking arguments. Can't afford to smoke? Don't, save money. Fat? Eat less, save money.
How do poor fat people even get fat? Do they spend all their money on food and then get fat?

What makes them fat is not the quantity of food that they eat! It is the quality of the food that they eat. Eating healthy is not universally affordable, and don't forget that in some areas, fast-food restaurants are more easily accessible than grocery stores carrying fresh vegetables and healthy food. I know this is a big problem in parts of the US and Canada, where you basically need to have a car (or make a 1h30 bus ride) just to buy healthy food. This is clearly detrimental to people who are poor, or work at minimum wage in some remote areas.

But I remember having food budgeting in high school. We also had cooking classes.
 
Obesity/smoking is s choice you make.

I have no sympathy for people that say they are forced to eat bad food. They are not forced to eat bad food, they choose to. I have a very little money to spend on food, and I eat extremely healthy. People are just lazy and make excuses. If it were up to me government would force people to exercise once they reached a certain bodyfat %, if they failed to lose the weight they would lose benefits as citizens, or be forced to pay a fat tax.

On the other hand I kind of feel sorry for smokers, most of them got hooked as kids and from what can gather its incredibly hard to quit.

However both smokers/fatties are huge drains on the healthcare system which is the biggest expense of government in the US, and shoulder a disproportionate amount of the blame for the problems in healthcare. The extra money they pay in premiums to insurance companies is not proportionate to the discount that healthy people get from being healthy, so the cost is essentially passed on to healthy people when some fatass needs heart surgery or some incredibly expensive medication in order to survive.

Part of the problem is the healthcare system itself, but alot of it is the freedom to make bad choices within a social society where to buck is passed to everyone else when you decide to make those bad choices.
 
^government has no place in doing such things; as if they aren't in the lives of their people enough as it is. government must govern and that is it, not punish people for their choices. if i want to be a fat ass smoker then i can do so and that's how it should be. The point most people are making in this thread is that obesity is systemic, inherent to our system and not a result of laziness. You are callous, sure some people are actually that lazy, but the single mother of 4 feeding her kids on a min wage job cannot afford to buy nor have the time to make great food. You purchase healthy food for yourself on a budget? good fucking job, try doing that for 4 other people besides yourself.

i would fucking hate to have anyone in government that has this kind of mindset.
 
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Everyone here has raised excellent points and solutions to the problem. We need to get rid of toxins/nonstop consumption instead of getting rid of life saving procedures for people who expressed their rights of freedom (in a minute way, but still) by means of a Big Mac or cigarette.
No matter what someone would choose to put into their body, my solution would never be to just let them die because of a choice/mistake they have made, all people deserve the right to have their life saved or extended.

I agree with this post 100%.
 
Food should = nutrition, nothing else.

That is not the case for anyone I have ever met in my life!
Food is culture, comfort, sustenance, nourishment, politics, pleasure, guilt, reward, addiction...
That is exactly why it is so difficult for people to change their diets - there is too much involved.

I can't get the different attitudes towards overweight people and smokers that I read in (other) posts above, tbh.
Both are addicted to unhealthy habits. Both should make better choices, but instead follow their addictions, and become less healthy, placing a burden on the health care system.
To me, they both need help, but not scorn or punishment (just as with meth addicts, etc).
 
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