Do opiates Permanently change your chemical balance in your brain?

[kratom luver]

I don't know why people are so opposed to being on permanent opioid substitution. It completely eliminates the problem of PAWS and having to take a medication for the rest of your life is a small price to pay for happiness.

 

[sonnyluv]

I don't know why people are so opposed to being on permanent opioid substitution. It completely eliminates the problem of PAWS and having to take a medication for the rest of your life is a small price to pay for happiness.

Understandable logic, but as a married adult with a career and kids, dubbing oneself "functional opiate addict for life" is difficult- and in regards to maintenance- you might as not take the opiates because the whole purpose of abusing the drugs is to get high- no high with maintenance. "PAWS" refers to acute distresss immediately after withdrawal. Difficult to differentiate between clinical depression and a opiate induced neuro-chemical imbalance. If it is neuro chemical r/t opiate abuse then perhaps a new pharm. is in order.

 

[kratom luver]

^ You can still get high on opiates if you're on 40mg of methadone or less.

 

[DJ25]

Understandable logic, but as a married adult with a career and kids, dubbing oneself "functional opiate addict for life" is difficult- and in regards to maintenance- you might as not take the opiates because the whole purpose of abusing the drugs is to get high- no high with maintenance. "PAWS" refers to acute distresss immediately after withdrawal. Difficult to differentiate between clinical depression and a opiate induced neuro-chemical imbalance. If it is neuro chemical r/t opiate abuse then perhaps a new pharm. is in order.

Yes but as some above have said PAWS can last a long time and for some don't go away- I don't know if this is true but if it is maintenance therapy seems like a logical solution as the imbalance is obviously opioid related.

 

[negrogesic]

The morphine metabolite M3G (morphine-3-glucuronide) is known to have excitotoxic properties. However, yes, the toxicity of opioids is considered to be quite low...

I am a young guy, and have used opioids very heavily in the past, and have not noticed any real impairment since stopping. My ADHD might be marginally worse (excitotoxicty--->glutamate---> worsened ADHD; maybe?). In regards to endorphins, I feel my pain tolerance is actually higher now (perhaps I can just "take" more pain now), however I am somewhat addicted to weightlifting which I suppose helps in this regard. I have no depression or anything of that nature. I do have a slightly higher anxiety level than my pre-drug self, but I attribute this to the benzo withdrawal I went through some years back.

Furthermore, I have no desire to use opioids now, and do not suffering from any cravings. In contrast to what people are saying here, only now that I have been off opioids do I feel "normal".

 

[svacheme3]

"changes in the VTA/NAc area of the brain that persist for years or decades"

ok, what does this mean to someone who isnt familiar with those terms??

It's the area of the brain that's responsible for the reward system; the changes involve an increased response to visual drug cues as they relate to relapse.

ssvaceme-how do you know you had a faulty reward system before you used drugs??there is no way to prove this as far as i know...

Reward deficiency syndrome along with conditions associated with lower dopamine (Aspergers, ADHD/I). There is in fact a way to prove it (genetic tests for mutations predisposing you to certain conditions; analysis of neurotransmitter levels), but professional psychiatrists determining whether you fit the diagnostic criteria based on the behavioral symptoms is considered sufficient.

 

[edarrin]

because the people under him would have to abide his closed minded bullshit.

If you took the time to reseach a bit about epigenetics (how many times do ask?) you would see that what I am saying is that both sides are right in a sense. In simple form epigenetics are proteins outside the genome that are influenced by environmental facters and they impact the DNA/RNA inside the cell.

It is often referred to the 'nature vs nurture' argument. One which, obviously, can arouse ire. I really think this is a huge step forward in how the body behaves and what makes changes and whatnot. That is what the 'winning' comment as referring too, hence the smilely..that means joke).

Whether not I'm in a position of power is of little consequence to you. You are obviously too young to have had much experience in the area or a) you would haveknown what the 'winning' comment was about (very common argument) and therefore will never likely have to deal with me
b) you may have known what epigenetics where, or at least shown some interest and looked it up.

I'm not here to preach anything to anybody. I'm offering what I've learned and experienced over the years. This is the internet. I don't really care if you give credence to what I'm saying or not. But if it helps one person somewhere then it did some good.

Hey, I learned a long time ago that people will do what they want regardless of what I say or do.

Best luck to all.

 

[qwe]

Now I know some of you are just going to say that booze is a shitty drug to begin with, but I don't want to hear that. My point is, it was always reallyy enjoyable to me until I started with the opiates. So in that aspect, you think you opiates altered my brain chemistry?

this happens to a lot of people, opiate abuse tends to cause other pleasures to lessen, including sexual desire and other drug use. i suppose it would signify a temporary imbalance, though it comes back rather quickly

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I have done opiates a few times and I was wondering whether or not taking opiates will cause PERMANENT change in your brain.
I'm not talking about tolerance, dependence, or withdrawals, I am talking mainly about the endorphins that are produced naturally in your brain, and the receptors.

Here is some info about my opiate use (all recreational):

September 2007: oral 2.5mg Oxycodone ( 1/2 Percocet)
December 2007: one oral dose of 60mg codeine, for 7 days straight. (didn't feel WD's whatsoever.
May-July 2008: snorted 10mg OC 5 random times, and about 15-20mg snorted two fays in a row (one dose per day)
June 2008: Kratom about 7 grams of ground leaf twice in one week.
July 2008: Kratom about 7 grams ground leaf once.
August: Kratom about 7 grams ground leaf once.


Thanks in advance for any responses..

The only cases of what you're talking about, from what I've heard of, are people who IV'd heroin for years, and when I say years, I mean at least a decade.

You'll be fine binging for a few days.

 

[malfunkshun]

This is a question I've been wondering for a long time. I've been abusing hydrocodone for over 2 years now. I did acquire quite a nasty little habbit for awhile. I always wondered about the whole 'brain chemistry' affect because I've noticed other changes.

Ever since I discovered opiates, it seems like alcohol is just not that much fun to me anymore. This is kind of hard to explain but, I used to get a real sense of euphoria from drinking up until I started abusing opiates. Now when I get drunk, I just want to pop pills because the euphoria from drinking alone, is almost non-existent.

Now I know some of you are just going to say that booze is a shitty drug to begin with, but I don't want to hear that. My point is, it was always reallyy enjoyable to me until I started with the opiates. So in that aspect, you think you opiates altered my brain chemistry?

Not trying to hijack, just throw in a certain scenario OP

I've quit opiates for semi-long periods before, and I always went straight back to alcohol. You're right though, opiates make alcohol seem like shit. And when your body is saturated with opiates, and for a short time after you quit, it still seems like alcohol is shit. But after a few weeks, I always go back to alcohol with a vengeance.

I don't know if that has to do with brain chemistry or not, but it seems like it does. Because alcohol is simply not enjoyable to me at all when I'm opiated or for a few weeks after not using opiates, but once my brain is completely cleared of them, it all comes back.

 

[malfunkshun]

The accepted science is that If a person becomes heavily addicted to opiates/opioids before the age of 24, that their endorphin productrion AND interaction will be irreperably altered in a negative way. It is also believed, although not quite proven yet, is the belief that certain receptors are also altered as well (which I do agree with).

Great, I have a chance then. I didn't get addicted to opiates until I was 33.

 

[NW-baltiland]

It's damn near impossible to forget the "rush" from any drug you IV.

Fentanyl being the most intense, heroin second, and finally methamphetamine. Snorting anything will not even come close to a good shot of any of those chems.

You forgot cocaine and ketamine. Probobly the two most intense I.V. drugs I've ever done.

 

[NW-baltiland]

^ You can still get high on opiates if you're on 40mg of methadone or less.

Definetly, and it is one of the best highs. When I first started on MMT I was put on 40mg's to start. The same day I started methadone I was still a little dope-sick since the methadone haden't kicked in yet. So I went and got a few pills of scramble and as I got home the meth was just kicking in, so I decided to do the shot now before it all hit me. I shot all 3 pills and got not only the most intense rush ever, but the high felt like it lasted twice as long, I was still high at 10p.m. that night. But I guess 40mg's of methadone and a .3 of dope will do that to ya' . I would never reccomend that high of a dose to anybody unless they have an extreme tolerance, which I happened to have. 40mg's alone would kill a non-tolerant person.

p.s. on the topic of changing chemical balance in the brain from opiates, I definetly have noticed a big change in the 5 years or so I've been on em'. When I got clean for just over a month in jail, it was probobly the worst month of my life. I've never been so bored or so depressed. I am very scared to have to come off of methadone someday, as I feel that life will be too much to handle without my daily medication. For me opiates have huge anti-depressant qualities that I noticed almost the first time I used them, it seems as though before (4years ago) I could have stopped and dealt with the day to day shit but now I feel that when I stop, even when the W/D's go away that I will never be the same and I will never be happy. I don't know, just thinking about getting off of opiates makes me depressed.

 

[belfort]

malfunkshun-not in my case, before opiates i experienced a ton of euphoria with alcohol, but now after opiates, even after ive beenclean for years, i still dont notice much at all in terms of euphoria from booze...

 

[rachamim]

Methadone: Although it is not "blocking" per se, the end effect is one and the same and "blocking" IS the accepted clinical term...70 mgs. is considered the AVERAGE blocking dose. This only happens after the subject reaches Optimum Dosing which is after 2 to 3 weeks of daily dosing. A person on 40 mgs. would take a bit more to feel psychoactive effects but WOULD be able to feel it.

 

[NW-baltiland]

^^I've heard that the blocking dose is even lower than that, anywhere from 50-60mg's, and this is also after 2 or 3 weeks after the levels in your body have built up and are steady, all I know is on 95mg's there isn't a hint of any kind of high, even when firing over .3 of raw.