DMT "aztec" feeling

[The Hebrew Hammer]

My take is that the whole idea of tripping for pleasure - for self-knowledge and wonder and sheer enjoyment is a western innovation.

Semantics.

The exact same reasons, just different words and systems of knowledge to explain them.

 

[oliphant]

3 books to read:
"The Teachings of Don Juan" and "A Seperate Reality" by Carlos Castaneda, about mesoamerican/"mexican" shamanism and "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman, about DMT research. I'm sure a lot of you have read at least one of these books. In his research, Strassman records a TON of information about the viuals/experience of a DMT trip. The trip reports range from spiritual feeling to alien, so IMO i don't think any specific feel of a trip can be expected (this is kind of obvious for any hallucinogen), even if you've had many similar trips, your next might be completely different.

 

[j.zhivago]

Good topic.All human cultures in some way were/are heavily influenced by hallucinogenic compounds.Its my opinion that the 'aliens' ARE the chemical compounds themselves that allow humans to tap into the hyper realm or what some call the subconscious,matrix or hyperspace.Its no coincidence that hindu deities are blue and they revere cows as sacred.Eating cows=No mushrooms.Lots of cows=lots of mushrooms.There is no doubt at all that the internet and computers would NOT exist if it wasn't for lsd and dmt.Many people I have known got into hindu,gnostic or buddhism after glowing experiences with certain chemicals.Interest in mayans,aztecs,shamans and so forth are also expanded.There is only one thing humans have been doing as long as we have hunted and mated and that is altering our perception with certain chemicals to find something that we lost a very long time ago.

 

[Ismene]

Semantics.

The exact same reasons, just different words and systems of knowledge to explain them.

No, there's definately a fundamental difference between tripping for your own personal reasons as opposed to a stranger in the village tripping for you while the family of the sick person sits round watching them.

 

[Ismene]

3 books to read:
"The Teachings of Don Juan" and "A Seperate Reality" by Carlos Castaneda

These books are total fiction - Castenada was a notorious lying fake. Good stories but they don't have a word of truth in them particularly as regards psychedelic use.

Its no coincidence that hindu deities are blue and they revere cows as sacred.Eating cows=No mushrooms.Lots of cows=lots of mushrooms.

I thought cows were revered because they produce milk which stops a hungry man from starving?

Even in western society psychedelic drug use is a minority activity. The idea that it was ever so popular and widespread that it was being used as the basis of Hinduism/christianity etc just doesn't make sense.

 

[j.zhivago]

3 books to read:
"The Teachings of Don Juan" and "A Seperate Reality" by Carlos Castaneda, about mesoamerican/"mexican" shamanism and "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman, about DMT research. I'm sure a lot of you have read at least one of these books. In his research, Strassman records a TON of information about the viuals/experience of a DMT trip. The trip reports range from spiritual feeling to alien, so IMO i don't think any specific feel of a trip can be expected (this is kind of obvious for any hallucinogen), even if you've had many similar trips, your next might be completely different.

Yes,yes,yes.Castaneda gets so much flak because he wrote the truth.What he did is so valuable to us.He is discredited because the critics know he was right all along.His books are my bible.

 

[Ismene]

Yes,yes,yes.Castaneda gets so much flak because he wrote the truth.

The truth that you "smoke" mushrooms? The guy was blowing it out of his ass :D

 

[MrTiHKAL]

In his research, Strassman records a TON of information about the viuals/experience of a DMT trip. The trip reports range from spiritual feeling to alien, so IMO i don't think any specific feel of a trip can be expected (this is kind of obvious for any hallucinogen), even if you've had many similar trips, your next might be completely different.

I avoid reading many trip reports on DMT, especially breakthrough type reports because I don't want to just find myself looking for the same things I have read about. I want to see whats in my mind not other peoples.

 

[j.zhivago]

A little off the subject we have gotten but a little thing about Castaneda haters. First and foremost,their minds have already been made up before exposure to the material or practice .They try to alter their beliefs to fit according to what they already want to find.Simple psychology.They have not read every single book.They have not put anything he wrote into actual pragmatic practice. Its kinda like beating up the neighborhood kid whom says he can ride a bike.You have never actually seen him do it but refuse to acknowledge it by actually watching or doing it yourself so you turn your disbelief into anger and denial.Once again, simple psychology.His books were really never about hallucinogens.They were only used very minimally in the beginning to change his behavior in order to perceive the world for what it really is.They were only a stepping stone to full perception by sobriety.It was never an end-all thing.I laugh at the critics.Oh well.

Back to the topic.......In regards to dmt,check out material by the Mckennas too;Terrence(RIP) and his older brother, Dennis.They wrote a couple books together.Dennis the elder,studied dmt more so through the telescope and has become well known in the areas of ethnobotany and pharmacology.Terrence on the other hand,the machine-elf-psychonaut, gobbled up as much dmt and mushrooms as he could to find some of the same answers to questions which we have posed.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

No, there's definately a fundamental difference between tripping for your own personal reasons as opposed to a stranger in the village tripping for you while the family of the sick person sits round watching them.

You realize in the situation , the shaman or whatever is doing it for his own personal reasons, they just happen to allign differently from todays standards...

Also I think you are underestimating the amount of mushrooms eaten by delinquent/free thinking kids / people.... dont think just because it was a long time ago there wasnt a ton of people wanting to explore psychedelics, im sure that anyone who knew about the effects had probably tried them or would like to... the knowledge probably just wasnt as wide spread as it is today of course

 

[rockstarbliss]

That aya drank up? I thought you could only get that exclusively in Brazil???

 

[Ismene]

You realize in the situation , the shaman or whatever is doing it for his own personal reasons, they just happen to allign differently from todays standards...

Also I think you are underestimating the amount of mushrooms eaten by delinquent/free thinking kids / people.... dont think just because it was a long time ago there wasnt a ton of people wanting to explore psychedelics, im sure that anyone who knew about the effects had probably tried them or would like to... the knowledge probably just wasnt as wide spread as it is today of course

How free-thinking were people like the aztecs/mayans tho? Living in deeply religious cultures with human sacrifices and kings with the power of life and death? Would they really be so easy-going that they'd hop off to the woods one day and say "Lets take shrooms dude!!".

And the other thing is this big religious belief they had that mushrooms were God incarnate - when you're carrying baggage like that around with you my guess is you arn't going to treat them as a fun recreational thing. Even now when you read so-called shamen talking about psychedelics it's usually some hoary old fire-breathing bollocks like "Do not disrespect the mighty plants of God". It's like listening to Ian Paisley.

In Maria Sabina's book she says she took some mushrooms as a kid and when her parents found her "they didn't scold me because they knew shouting at a person on shrooms can send them mad". That almost sounds like parents who've just come back from a "Just Say No" educational program.

 

[interplanetary]

Fractal geometrical shapes -- a shape within a shape within a shape at infinitum.

It is absolutely fascinating; fractal geometry that is.

 

[lightlord99]

I draw in an extremely primitive, Aztec style since using LSD and drawing from "within" my head... For reference: my avatar.

 

[LoboSoloDolo]

I had a parallel experience. Exactly as you described it. Impossible to put into words except "that felt fucking aztec" I am curious to hear more about your DMT experiences since then. this just happened to me recently and I am somewhat intrigued.

 

[psood0nym]

I'm certain the imagery associated with DMT and mushooms (4-po/ho-DMT) is merely coincidentaly "mesoamerican".

Consider Aztec glyphs:

and Mayan glyphs:

Their basic asthetic is not terribly different (limited in acuity by what can be carved into clay or rock with simple tools), certainly not that much different than our individual experience of DMT or mushroom/4-po/AcO/ho-DMT visuals is from each of them.

 

[itsALLfake]

I use to see the Aztec calendar in the center of my visuals on mushrooms, and that was before I knew what it was. The weird "quilt-like" patterns I got from Mescaline closely resembled the blocks in the bottom picture. DMT and LSD give me more complicated and "refined" geometrics. I guess that is just my wording for more triangular/edged patterns within patterns.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't think that specific cultural values or styles are necessarily relayed in DMT experiences but rather that age-old tribal principles got hard-coded deep within us all since all people are either now living in tribes or are descendents of people who at some point lived in tribes. I think that these are a sort of Jungian archetypes mixed with things like form constants and patterns that are part of our neurological wiring resulting in the "corporate identity" of (ancient) tribal cultures.
An example of manifestation of neurological architecture is for example jagged edges and patterns (such as checkerboard, honeycomb, etc) experienced by people who have migraine aura's. Such patterns can also be triggered by psychedelic shamanistic tools / substances. We see them in art across the world even if different cultures have different preferences and emphasis (forming their particular "corporate identity" / homestyle). These patterns are embedded within us and within nature, they are products of universal metaphysical mathematical architecture and geometry.

Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of people we hear and read about who report on their experiences are extremely likely to have pre-existing knowledge about cultures of the world and their styles, because if they are modern enough to post reports on the internet they are modern enough to be 'globally educated'. Such preconceptions are bound to contribute to our associations, especially if we are talking about experiences that are associated with the unknown, impossible and the foreign / alien... We must reach to integrate that, and it helps us to use preconceptions.

As for entity contact or experience of a 'presence': It is known that certain abnormal brain activity can cause us to feel a presence, to feel watched. That is probably because we have specialised brain circuits for that, there are different reasons why we have this and why it is important such as social ones (we are highly sensitive to someone seeking eye-contact with us) and ones related to survival.
It is also typical for our brain to attribute activity that is out of the ordinary to an entity of sorts. The feeling of an entity can be associated with our detection of life-forms. Again: you can imagine the evolutionary value / advantage. Also: our consciousness is trained to try and integrate brain activity and signals from such learning centers and detection centers into a meaningful storyline. This is probably also how dreams work: they are an epiphenomenon of brain processes that reinforce important experiences as memories and processes that simulate vital emotions and activities to prepare us better for those things happening during the day. All those processes act on principle elements that are not necessarily related. Still in our conscious layer a storyline is formed to "make sense" of the activity.

 

[ColtDan]

Wow i forgot i made this thread. Ok cool thanks for the info. yeah psood0nym they look very similar

 

[Ismene]

Yeah I've always had the feeling that some psychedelic effects are aztec but I think it could just be that they're vaguely similar and so that's what your conscious brain thinks of when you start seeing psychedelic patterns.

When you look at aztec patterns sober they don't actually look psychedelic.