dissociative hole experience vs. dmt or salvia breakthrough experiences

[Deleted member 290563]

I was hoping to hear some others comparisons on a k-hole (or mxe,pcp, other nmda antagonists) with a breakthrough (body transcending) experience on tryptamines/phens, such as a high dose of smoking dmt.

Because something seems much more chaotic and almost real. much more visceral and busy and fast. if that makes any sense. I don't know it just seems like I experience more input/or universal type stuff on a hole experience than having done too much salvia. I have only done dmt once to the point of full blown hallucinations of things but it seemed less like i was trapped in an actual other place and more like I was just seeing this visual thing happen. salvia, didn't even know i was on something after it kicked in but still seemed more just like i was experiencing a full hallucination of dream of everyday reality, not something so foreign as the k-hole

 

[MagickalKat777]

Smoke more salvia or DMT. There really is no comparison to breaking through on DMT to any sort of hole experience in my opinion. When you break through on DMT, you get so much input that you become absolutely overloaded. It is like the universe just overclocked your soul to the point that your body can't keep up with your spirit anymore and you simply cease to exist as yourself temporarily. While you're in that space, you can live an eternity in that short 8-10 minute peak. The first time that I smoked DMT and broke through, it messed up my idea of reality to the point that it took me over two months before I finally was able to merge the experience to the point where I was living in the physical plane again rather than still being stuck in hyperspace. It is indescribable.

I have holed many times on ketamine and I've had who knows how many 4th plateau trips on DXM - I had one so intense that I watched Isis walk out of my wall in broad daylight and you could combine all of my holes and DXM trips (I've got experience with ketamine, DXM, PCP, MXE, and S-Ketamine) and not come close to the pure insanity that 40mg of DMT took me to.

Salvia... is just fuckin weird. My most intense experience on salvia was when I was smoking with a few friends of mine and we all hit the same trip... we entered each other's realities and it was a twisted, fucked up "Cell" type of experience shared between 4 people... We were attacking each other with penises and breasts and one of us, my friend Cindy, actually fell into a trashcan head-first somehow while we were all gone.

Salvia is on a completely different level... I've met Lady Salvia... she threw me into my turntables and told me never to come back - and I haven't touched the stuff since.

 

[Deleted member 290563]

I've heard of dmt experiences of experiencing nothinness of a void....i was wondering if any body transcending experience was sort of singluar or peaceful even....guess not. It just seems like intense psychedelic experiences are all really intense and busy. I'm wanting something thats very psychedelic lately but it doesn't feel like every thing in your brain is overloaded with input all at once

 

[xTalK]

Completely different, ketamine if you know what you're doing the hole can be like a virtual reality land, computer simulation, whatever you want to call it.

DMT/Salvia are very, very deep intense psychedelic experiences but with very short durations so the only similarity I get is the poor memory recollection after.

 

[hypnagogic]

I've heard of dmt experiences of experiencing nothinness of a void....i was wondering if any body transcending experience was sort of singluar or peaceful even....guess not. It just seems like intense psychedelic experiences are all really intense and busy. I'm wanting something thats very psychedelic lately but it doesn't feel like every thing in your brain is overloaded with input all at once

The DMT breakthrough experience can be so different every time though. I've had breakthroughs that I would say were completely peaceful, accompanied by the greatest body high I've ever felt. That's not to say the coming up wasn't intense as hell, but once I got there it was bliss.

As the above user said holes can be kind of like a virtual reality land. For me all the visuals and thoughts occur much slower in a hole than a DMT breakthrough, making them feel more relaxed without even taking the already sedating qualities of the dissociatives themselves into account.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I've heard of dmt experiences of experiencing nothinness of a void....i was wondering if any body transcending experience was sort of singluar or peaceful even....guess not. It just seems like intense psychedelic experiences are all really intense and busy. I'm wanting something thats very psychedelic lately but it doesn't feel like every thing in your brain is overloaded with input all at once

The only two that come to mind are mescaline and ayahuasca. High dose mescaline for me was pretty damn amazing. I found it put me in a headspace that was like a combination of 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 without the immensely overwhelming visuals that 2C-T-7 always caused. I find that a lot of the time, very visual chems (5-MeO-AMT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-HO-MET, 2C-T-7, and MDA were by far the most visual chemicals I've ever taken orally followed closely by LSD then mushrooms, 2C-T-2, and the 4-position psilocin analogs) are so distracting that it takes away from the actual psychedelic mindspace. The visuals are most certainly there on mescaline (and very complex and fascinating as well), they just don't take the focus of the trip. Mescaline was one of the few drugs that I would take orally and get the strong head trip. I highly recommend it. It is by a decent margin my favorite psychedelic.

DPT is another one that in the right dose doesn't overload you. 2C-E can be like that too. They both will blast you out of this world in high doses though.

In general, I find that tryptamines are a lot more likely to cause the overload experience than phenethylamines (not the case for thio substitutions and amphetamines though) are. Tryptamines have a tendency to not be very forgiving while the phenethylamines have a warmer and less edgy tone to their intoxication with a few notable exceptions - 2C-E in high doses, 2C-P, 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7, and most of the amphetamines.

As for the virtual reality land, that is a great way to describe that space! That's exactly what its like!

 

[Deleted member 290563]

maybe i just havn't had a high enough dose of dmt....and i don't really plan to because it just seems less unwelcoming that a breakthrough dissociative experience. but it just seems like mxe is more capable of consistently producing a positive "discover the universl truth/meaning of life" sort of experience than dmt. correct me if i'm wrong.....dmt just seems like you're hallucinating balls...maybe i just havn't had that experience on dmt....but i can have it on mxe even at low non breakthrough doses.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Smoking DMT is harsh on the lungs and nothing compared to DMT snuff and MAOI or even yage or whatever you want to call the brew of DMT/MAOI. You can also use extracted DMT and MAOI. I find the whole "meaning of life/spiritual quest" on psychedelics to be a completely unguided and misconstrued attempt to achieve some kind of spiritual awakening. Without proper belief, ritual, cultural significance or at least an understanding of these factors the urban "shaman" really has no guide to help them achieve their desired spiritual quest.

It can however be a powerful tool for dealing with addictions etc and to explore one's own life/lifestyle and find contentment or a new direction in career, ambitions etc. Mescaline depending on the nature of the preparation does not produce the most pronounced visuals unless consuming a very concentrated dose of say 600 mg of mescalin alkaloid extracted at 90%. The additional alkaloids present in the cacti seem to aid the experience although the purging and nausea of both DMT/MAOI and mescalin can be unpleasant it does seem to remove toxic emotions (and all kinds of body fluids) that may have been present before the experience. 2ce is an amazing synthetic drug that can rival both DMT and mescalin for self reflection and self awareness if taken at the correct dose. LSD although introspective does not grant me the level 2ce does. Probably my body chemistry.

Indeed I find LSD to be a substance no longer have any interest in (perhaps over did it in the past) LSD to me is an entry level psychedelic along with mushrooms (I first consumed psychedelic mushrooms at 15 years of age and had consumed hallucinogenic fish as a very young child, yes that is correct fish that contain hallucinogens from the aquatic plant life they feed upon). That said the first LSD trip was amazing and the ALD 52 was even more astounding. However after ALD 52, LSD never seemed to be as profound despite consuming large quantities over the years. Indeed I used it as a party drug with amphetamines along with DOx.

Dissociative drugs like ketamine/MXE combined with psychedelics can give the user visions of cosmic gates of universal knowledge and understanding that are just out of reach. This is an illusion after the experience you have no more "cosmic" or "universal" understanding than when you began. However it can allow you to assess things like social dynamics, communication networks etc. A high dose MXE allowed me to understand just how intricate our globalized society has become although that was not my intention before entering the "hole". Also I can paint while in the "hole" and find this a challenging and rewarding experience, also the paintings look quite good.

PCP and 3 meo pcp are not substances that fit well with this as they can completely overpower the user and it's loony tunes time. 3 meo pcp and pcp at low doses are quite stimulating and with very low dose entry level psychedelics like 10 mg 3 meo pcp and 10 mg 2cb they can be enriching in their own right. I would never use a large dose pcp or 3 meo pcp with a large dose of potent psychedelic or stimulant. This would be extremely dangerous and reckless. I also consider "heroic doses" that create break through experiences to be reckless unless performed under the guidance of a shaman or experienced urban shaman or unless the user has gradually worked their way up and is comfortable with lower doses until they achieve their personal goal by gradually increasing dose. Out of body experiences are not really what one experiences more like an external reflection of self. If your trying to astral project good luck it's bullshit unless you are a "shaman" or "witch doctor" practicing traditional religious beliefs and using traditional methods to achieve this (or 2cb as some South African medicine people prefer).

 

[DubNaut]

i believe all methods, are routes to the same "breakthrough" you speak off.
experience with holes, and salvia.
one in the same just a different perspective to the funnels.
ill be back later.