Did you relapse your first time trying to quit?

[DubCity23]

Did you relapse your first time trying to quit.. whether on sub maintence or just CT... how long did you stay clean for before this happened?

Do you think it's possible to use heroin responsibly after being a heroin addict?

 

[johanneschimpo]

(Q1) I 'relapsed' every time I tried to stop using... until the last time. I probably tried 40 times before that, 5-10 of them being serious attempts, with suboxone or whatever.
This was several times over the course of a year or so. Then one day it clicked.
Sometimes I could last a day, sometimes a week, but never long. Now I haven't used heroin for almost 1.5 years.

(Q2) Is it possible to use responsibly (chipping) after being addicted? Yes, its just very unlikely.
I sure as hell know that I wouldn't even do it once, knowing how easy it is to fall back in.



There's my short answers. Hope I helped. Around the Horn just started so I gotta go watch that. Woody Paige cracks me up.

 

[DubCity23]

Word, thanks for the help. The thought has just been crossing my mind it sucks i want it to leave. Do you think my tolerance has gone down after being on subs for 7 days?

 

[johanneschimpo]

I would say your tolerance has changed anywhere from little to none. (It also matters how much dope you were using and how much suboxone you have been taking.) A week isn't all that much, but after months or more on bupe (especially a low dose), you will be surprised how low your tolerance does drop. Try not to use that as an excuse to get high, because its cheaper now.

My best recommendation, from a junkie to a junkie: ride it out (if you can). Go for a walk, read a book, go to the gym, call a friend, build a sandcastle, etc. You will be pleasantly surprised what happens when you keep your mind busy. Four hours will pass and you'll realize that "heroin" hasn't crossed your mind once since you were keeping it busy and thinking positively.

As someone mentioned in a thread yesterday, its all just mind over matter

 

[WARDMAN3]

I relapsed a few times after doing cold turkey. The final thing that helped me was a slow taper from 80 -100 mgs of hydro/ oxy a day for about 8 years on and off. I did it in 5 months and was down to 2 10mg pills a day. One at 9am and one at 5pm for the last month. I quite from that point in Nov 06 and have only used for some surgeries that I had to have and then used only as directed. It is nice not to have to count pills and worry where your next round is coming from.

 

[papa]

Did you relapse your first time trying to quit.. whether on sub maintence or just CT... how long did you stay clean for before this happened?

Do you think it's possible to use heroin responsibly after being a heroin addict?

I never relapsed after I really quit. You can go on and say I'm quitting a thousand times. I know I did. I would use again the first chance I got. But, when I had really made up my mind to quit, I never used again. that was 30 years ago.

I don't know if it is possible to be a responsible user after you stop. I might find out some day. You've probably heard the saying, "if I knew then what I know now". There might be something to that. And lately I've been thinking that I might want to check it out again before I die. It might be kind of tough for an old fuck like that to score though.

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

make this into a poll....yes

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

I never relapsed after I really quit. You can go on and say I'm quitting a thousand times. I know I did. I would use again the first chance I got. But, when I had really made up my mind to quit, I never used again. that was 30 years ago.

I don't know if it is possible to be a responsible user after you stop. I might find out some day. You've probably heard the saying, "if I knew then what I know now". There might be something to that. And lately I've been thinking that I might want to check it out again before I die. It might be kind of tough for an old fuck like that to score though.

truth...if heard "im stopping tomorrow", "im quitting next week for good", "this is my last 80", "this is my last time"....until u quite CT or go on sub/methadone detox or maintinance, ur not quitting.

"im gonna wean myself off oxy/heroin"...false, almost impossible.

 

[phr]

Do you think it's possible to use heroin responsibly after being a heroin addict?

I'm just going to try to answer this, since everyone I know has relapsed at least once.

I do think it's possible to become a chipper, or infrequent user, after having been addicted before. The thing is, you have to find out why you became addicted in the first place, and you have to be sure those issues have been addressed. If they haven't, you're in the cycle again. IMO, most don't know why they truly became addicted, and if they do, most can't suppress those things enough to use without becoming addicted.
In conclusion; not impossible, but quite unlikely.

 

[papa]

truth...if heard "im stopping tomorrow", "im quitting next week for good", "this is my last 80", "this is my last time"....until u quite CT or go on sub/methadone detox or maintinance, ur not quitting.

"im gonna wean myself off oxy/heroin"...false, almost impossible.

agreed, I tried to wean myself off heroin a thousand times. save a little to keep my sick off. plan to keep a little back everyday to keep from being sick until you can taper off and quit, never worked for me. Methadone didn't work either. I quit cold turkey.

 

[DeLee]

Yes i did relapse first time i went of heroin "for real". I had tried many, many times before but just did 2 or 3 days clean and then went on it again.

But when i managed to "kick" for real i stayed clean for about 6 months i think, then one day i got some oxycodone just for the hell of it and snorted it. (I was a IV opioid user)
I did the oxy maybe once or twice a week - for a month then it sneaked up on me and suddenly i was injecting oxy everyday and when i realized what i was doing
i also started using heroin again. Combination of heroin & oxy, but when tolerance grews the oxy all ways takes the front door and the heroin spends the night!

This is years ago and i did quit, went on, quit, went on many times since then but i managed to kick heroin ~2½-3 years ago and since then ive only
taken Buprenorphine. Not everyday but binges, 1year there and 6months there.
But as all ways when i quit heroin i start using other drugs, mainly alcohol and amphetamine and ofcourse bensos but those ive all ways taken.

 

[burn out]

I'm just going to try to answer this, since everyone I know has relapsed at least once.

I do think it's possible to become a chipper, or infrequent user, after having been addicted before. The thing is, you have to find out why you became addicted in the first place, and you have to be sure those issues have been addressed. If they haven't, you're in the cycle again. IMO, most don't know why they truly became addicted, and if they do, most can't suppress those things enough to use without becoming addicted.
In conclusion; not impossible, but quite unlikely.

that's good advice. but let's take it a step further and ask this question: assuming you have those issues addressed (or even if you don't) why would you want to be a "responsible heroin user"?

 

[Bomboclat]

oh hell ya!
and i continue to!
it sucks but its just what you get from being an addict

You have to understand that relapse is part of recovery though and that most WILL relapse.

its not that you are doomed, or that you will never get clean but its just part of the dark side of using.

With each relapse you will grow though
and you, hopefully, will become wiser.

Learn from each relapse and it WILL help you later on

all i can say is good luck to every addict
you need it

 

[TheMatador]

I feel like i relapse everyday
im always trying to take my pain meds as prescribed, and sometimes im going a month, or two months strong, and think i can do it "just once" but as we all know that is near impossible, and i fall back into the cycle again

 

[InTherapy82]

I've been clean off heroin for a few months now. Used sub to get clean.

Relapsed Once After 2 weeks of starting Sub. I guess I just needed a proper goodbye. I think about it every once in a while but the negatives after a while of using outweigh the positives by far. I don't think its possible to use heroin responsibly after you have been addicted. At least I wouldn't try. I'm scared of getting addicted again. I'm good where I'm at.

I guess I have an addictive personality. Once I do a drug I like I want to do it and do it. Plus when ur on Sub it a bitch getting back on, there is always the fear of getting precipitated w/d.

Relapsing is part of recovery for like 99% of the people. If u relapse just try not using again and don't beat yourself about it. Its human of course. But once day it will sick and you will remain sober. I hope that time came for me. You can only wish for a better life and dope will not give you that. As long as you keep in mind that you want a better life w/o drugs one day you will have that life. At least that's what I believe in. Dope in the end has brought be bad things and I don't want to go back to that. That what keeps me from going back, Believe I wanna feel the high from dope, it was great. But not worth all the pain and suffering it has brought me and my family in the long run. So I stay away. Its been a few months and hope it stays this way.

 

[Akomplice]

Did you relapse your first time trying to quit.. whether on sub maintence or just CT... how long did you stay clean for before this happened?

Do you think it's possible to use heroin responsibly after being a heroin addict?

Question 1: Yeah, I relapsed after the first time I went to rehab for 30 days.
Oddly enough they tell you in most drug rehabs(Or the one's I've been to), "Look around, one of you is gunna make it and stay sober after this, one of you is going to die, most of you will end up in treatment within the next 6 months, blah blah."

Statistically this is correct, I can't remember the exact numbers but I think it's 1 in 8 people stay clean after their first rehab stint, and something like 1 in 15 will die with causes relating to drug use. Don't quote me on that please, I'm not positive about the numbers.

Hopefully someone here knows and can correct me.

Anyway, I found it A LOT easier to relapse after my second stint in rehab. I don't know if that's common but after the first time, I really beat everything in to my brain. 12 steppin', and everything.

It was really hard for me to accept relapsing. I literally was so mad at myself for it.

The second time in treatment, same amount of time and I think better opiate detox. It was a lot easier to relapse, cause at least for me I just told myself "Well I can always go back", or "only one in __ was gunna make it".

I believed that if I didn't stop using that I was going to die really soon, cause that's what the first rehab beat into me(most do).

Then I met fellow junkies and opiate addicts that have been using for 50 years or so and actually looked really young and fit. I think opiates are the fountain of youth in that sense, opiate addicts always look younger.


Whoa my bad, I have a problem with writing too much lol. Most people on here know that.

Anyway again,

Do you think it's possible to use heroin responsibly after being a heroin addict?

Question 2: No, I don't think it's possible for a heroin addict to use responsibly ever.

Some people might disagree with me but here's my reason.

I figure if you use heroin "responsibly" you're not an addict.
Just because you are dependent on opiates(meaning you get sick when you don't have them), doesn't mean you're a drug addict.

It gets a little fuzzy, but in reality what that is called is being physiologically or physically dependent. Like the 90 year old woman with fibro or some other chronic pain causing illness/disease taking her MS contin and whatever else.

I know a 60 year old man that uses heroin to control his pain from MS(multiple sclerosis) because he doesn't have insurance and can not afford RX pain meds.
Now I think that's using heroin "responsibly".

A lot of people might disagree, I kind of disagree(that's okay, everyone is entitled to their opinions and these are mine. I respect yours so please respect mine.) because if you're safe and use harm reduction then you're using responsibly but in the big picture sense, I'd say using responsibly would be controlling your usage or regulating or whatever else you want to call it.

But if you are an addict, like I am.
A junky we'll say that loves the rush and loves to nod.

No you will never be able to use opiates responsibly again. You might be able to get away with it for a little while, but in the end. You're a junky and you will go back to how you used to be. It's how it was meant to be lol

It's hard wired in to our brains, you'll never forget the feeling that opiates give you, the rush, the warm blanket wrapped around you. Or the first time you used them.

For example, and chime in if you hear me. Cause I know I'm not the only one. The first time I ever took a couple norco 10's when I was 16, something clicked in my brain that said "This is my shit. I think I'm in trouble, O well this is amazing." You know what I'm talking about.

It's been like that ever since, every opiate (except codeine cause who likes to itch the inside of their ears? I don't unless I'm nodding in between
like with IV hospital morphine.. ).

Anyway it's like that for everyone, everyone had their vice. Some people it's yayo, some people it's amphs, some it's opiates, some it's food, some it's sex. What'ever it may be, everyone's got "Thier shittt". As long as it stays that way, people will never be able to use "their shit" "responsibly".

So as you might be able to get away with it for a "little" while, you could never just use them once a month or whatever you're thinking.

Ask anyone who's tried. That's why we are opiate addicts, because we can't use "responsibly" or in moderation.

It will start out nice.
You'll only use once a month, then twice a month, then only on Fridays, then only weekends, then only at night.. Dude everyone has tried and I can't tell you that's it's impossible but if you are a true opiate addict and are/were deep into it. I'd bet my left nut that you won't be able to do it.

Reason being bro, if you're an addict. Tell me is 5 better than 1? Is one too many but 1,000 is never enough? When you take advil or whatever, do you take one like the bottle says? Or do you take 5+? Do you want to feel good now or in an hour?
If I'm not making any sense right here I'm sorry lol. I'm sure some people will understand what I mean by all that. An Addict is an addict forever. In NA they say "recovering addict".

In AA they say something like, "If you can drink like a gentleman, we take our hats off to you".

Well bro, if you can shoot like a gentleman, I'll take my hat off to you. Until then, if you're off them. Stay off them, if not for you then for someone you care about. Starting in the first place was the biggest mistake of my life, relapsing was the second...

But it does have it's advantages.

In case you don't want to read all of the above cause I like to write, here's the summarized version..

Short answer to question 1: Yes, the first time I relapsed 1 month after treatment. The second time, 2 weeks and the third time was 3 days.

Short answer to question 2: No. See above if you want an explanation.
Peace,


-Akomplice (I am not affiliated with the 12 Steps, AA or any of that anymore. I don't preach it nor do I believe it. If you do more power to you, but I don't want to come off as one of those people. I was just making a statement. Thanks).

Lol

 

[Akomplice]

What's the phrase?

Getting sober is easy, it's staying sober that's the hard part.
I've quit a thousand times, if you count kicking cause you ran out or couldn't get anything as quitting. Lol

I respectfully disagree with PillPoppingAnimal, although I do like lil wayne..

truth...if heard "im stopping tomorrow", "im quitting next week for good", "this is my last 80", "this is my last time"....until u quite CT or go on sub/methadone detox or maintinance, ur not quitting.

"im gonna wean myself off oxy/heroin"...false, almost impossible.

Going on sub or 'done maintenance is not quitting opiates, or getting sober. It's substituting your addiction or substituting drugs.
Don't get me wrong, Bupe and Methadone are a god send and have save so many peoples lives. I think they're amazing considering what they are about and what they do for people.

But that's not quitting. That's as you said, maintenance. You're still an addict, now you're a sub or 'done addict.
You know?

That said, what you said about "im gonna wean myself off oxy/heroin"...false, almost impossible"

That's very true, it's scientifically proven that it's and I'm gunna say almost always physically impossible for an opiate addict to ween them selves off alone. Some stuff I've read suggests that it is impossible.

If you've done it, you're not an exception to the rule. You weren't a true opiate addict. You were just dependent on opiates.

Those of us that are opiate addicts, aren't just physically addicted. We love opiates, knew it the first time we ever used them. There's usually as phrozen said, underlying causes that led us to addiction.

Not all of these are treatable. Such as hereditary addiction prone people.

Every single opiate addict, uses because they're in pain. Physical, mental, emotional. Whatever, you can agree or disagree with me I don't care. It's a fact. You might not know you're in pain, but you are. That's why you love opiates, they make everything okay. They make you happy, warm, whatever.
People that use opiates are in pain. As long as you remain in pain, you'll be an opiate addict. As phrozen said.

Most opiate addicts(most drug addicts actually) have some traumatic event that occurred, be it rape, abuse, poverty, a hard life in general etc.. most addicts have relatives that were addicts or alcoholics and are predisposed to addiction/addictive personalities.

So that being said, a lot of doctors and scientists believe that addiction is a disease. That we as addicts are born as addicts. It's choices we make that determine if we live up to our potential, some people will never touch a drug in their lives and never know that they have the "addiction" gene hardwired into their brains. If this person, were say to have the predisposition or "gene" to become an opiate addict. If they did a shot of heroin, the same thing that happened myself and others. Something clicks. You basically fall in love, that's what it feels like to me.

Anyway sorry for babbling. My answers are above lol

Stay safe tho, that's all that matters if you do decide to relapse. Realize that your tolerance has dropped. I don't give a fuck what anyone says, fucking 2 days on sub and your tolerance is reduced.

It's different for everyone of course and everyone reacts differently but I'd rather as many others would that you'd be "safe rather than sorry".

So assume that your tolerance has dropped. Test shot is key.

I'd guess your tolerance has been reduced by 1/2 or 50% or more.
Granted it will shoot up fast, all that matters now is that if you do relapse you take that into account.

Test Shot. Test Shot. Test Shot.

Orrrr snort or smoke a little, depending on where you're at.

EDIT:

The best advice that I could give you to help you out with your current dilemma is something I learned in rehab/12 step meetings etc.. I think it's the best advice they give you to stay sober.

Imagining a lifetime without drugs or alcohol is too hard. Saying that you're never going to use opiates again is too hard or better put too scary.

The best an easiest way to look at it is "one day at a time". People in NA/AA etc.. say that. You can't say that you'll never use opiates again but you can say that you won't use them today, worry about tomorrow when that comes. So if you're thinking about relapsing you're planning for failure. You've already planned your relapse, you just haven't set a date.

So if you want to stay clean, take it one day at a time. Promise yourself that you're not going to use today. Everyday wake up and say it.


Now just so we're clear, I know this isn't a recovery site. God knows I know that with all the "no don't do that" bullshit.
All I'm trying to do is help the OP every way I know how. I don't preach sobriety at all, I don't care either way as long as he's safe. But if you really want to not relapse, and not have all the shit you went through to get where you are to be for nothing. I suggest you do as others said and walk it off. Go see a movie, go bowling(without the pitcher of beer lol). Do something productive, what I call "sober fun".

You're already half way there. All you have to do is not use tonight and you have another day.


Anyway, I hope I helped either way you go. Just do what makes you happy dude don't endanger yourself to do that by using your normal dose if you do decide to relapse. I've had friends that made that mistake. No matter what you think, you should always assume a couple things.

A.) The dope you got is fire.
B.) Even after one day, you're tolerance has gone down.

Those are reasons to always test your shit. Start low/slow because you can always take/do more, you can't un-take/undo after it's done.

Annnd to the people that have problems with my long posts, I apologize but there's simpler answers to that. Learn to read faster or speed read. Or don't read my posts. I'm not hurting anyone by posting long replies, and I'm also not forcing anyone to read them. So use your own digression.



I'm done, be safe.


Peace,

Akomplice

 

[Atlien3]

(Q1) I 'relapsed' every time I tried to stop using... until the last time. I probably tried 40 times before that, 5-10 of them being serious attempts, with suboxone or whatever.
This was several times over the course of a year or so. Then one day it clicked.
Sometimes I could last a day, sometimes a week, but never long. Now I haven't used heroin for almost 1.5 years.

(Q2) Is it possible to use responsibly (chipping) after being addicted? Yes, its just very unlikely.
I sure as hell know that I wouldn't even do it once, knowing how easy it is to fall back in.



There's my short answers. Hope I helped. Around the Horn just started so I gotta go watch that. Woody Paige cracks me up.

J C, I dont know what you do for a living ( I think you mentioned you were still in school) but you should seriously be a drug counselor homey

 

[Akomplice]

J C, I dont know what you do for a living ( I think you mentioned you were still in school) but you should seriously be a drug counselor homey

I agree.

He does know a lot about a lot of shit.

But of all his posts that I would think someone would say that about, that one wasn't one of them. He kept it simple.

Drug counselors make shit money, or at least the majority of them do.

JC could use his skills for tons of other jobs that are more profitable, like drug dealing lol jk.

But I'm sure being a drug counselor has it's perks, you know saving people and all.

Anyway I agree, JC knows his shit.

-Akomplice

 

[chrisinabox]

yes i relapsed on heroin sooo many times before i seriously quit. for 3 years, i could never get more than 2 months clean without going back to using, even with suboxone. at the moment tho, i have been clean exactly 7 1/2 months and haven't used once since. i am on suboxone maintenance tho, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't have been able to go this long without it with no suboxone.