shocking to see a friend slipping into a full blown psychosis
First of all, let me tell you a bit about myself. I am a very experienced user of stimulants, I have seen spun people tweaking like hell, but nothing came close to this!
I have been doing various stimulants for the past decade and never had any problems, no depression, no problems with taking breaks. No psychological problems whatsoever.
I am studying pharmacy at the moment, so I hope you believe me, when I tell you that I am a responsible person when it comes to sharing drugs. I thought I knew my friend, whose mental status will be described in the following chat log, very well.
I did amphetamine and cocain with him very often, including some meth binges, which both of us handled very well. A little paranoia and irritability following the use of stimulants is normal, these symptoms can be attributed to the lack of sleep and the increased awareness. When I left my friend, carefully instructed about the properties of 2-DPMP (long half life, huge AUC, absence of a rush etc...), I could in no way imagine in which condition I would meet him about 36 hours later.
Chatlog: (Nicknames anonymized!)
(23:48:10) HelpingHand: this stimulant is not for the faint hearted
(23:48:18) HelpingHand: i reconsider selling it
(23:48:30) HelpingHand: a friend of mine showed signs of amphetamine psychosis 2day
(23:48:57) HelpingHand: he reorganized his kitchen (spoons, forks, plates etc) in a system, that would change itself
(23:49:03) HelpingHand: virtually driving him nuts
(23:49:30) HelpingHand: he ended up throwing all his dinner plate out because they "interferred in a way he couldnt explain"
(23:49:46) HelpingHand: and i considered him to an experience stim user...
(23:50:01) HelpingHand: well turns out that he is a little compulsive in terms of redosing
(23:50:17) HelpingHand: he did like 50mg of that stuff since saturday morning
(23:50:20) user1: o god
(23:50:28) HelpingHand: i gave him haloperidol and a shitload of diazepam
(23:50:43) user1: find it from him?
(23:50:44) HelpingHand: a friend of mine is hat his appartement atm
(23:50:48) user1: hide*
(23:50:52) HelpingHand: because i also need rest
(23:51:12) HelpingHand: well the thing is he did all i gave him ^^
(23:51:21) HelpingHand: which was about 50mg +-1mg
(23:51:27) HelpingHand: 10mg* +-
(23:51:44) HelpingHand: i had a wonderful experience with this stuff
(23:51:52) HelpingHand: i also did way too much
(23:51:58) HelpingHand: but i still feel comfortable
(23:52:10) HelpingHand: like havin slept for a few hours during a meth binge
(23:52:19) HelpingHand: but more focused and definitely not spun
(23:52:30) HelpingHand: it i will be up for at least 12 more hours i think
(23:52:48) HelpingHand: so i really consider not listing it on *censored*
(23:52:59) HelpingHand: it must be used as a tool
(23:53:23) HelpingHand: in impulsive people this stuff is bound to induce psychosis
(23:53:41) HelpingHand: i hope my friend is fine when he wakes up
(23:53:44) HelpingHand: he was not violent
(23:53:53) HelpingHand: just agitated and irritable
(23:54:12) user1: just warn everyone and it their fault for being and idiot and darwin will show them.
(23:54:17) HelpingHand: a bit like the guys they show on television to give bad examples of meth abuse
(23:54:24) user1: sell saml doses
(23:54:26) HelpingHand: yeah well, i kinda feel responsible
(23:54:28) user1: small
(23:54:40) HelpingHand: but that does not stop somebody to order more
(23:54:42) user1: only
(23:54:52) HelpingHand: you dont know if you can control it before its too late
(23:55:01) HelpingHand: my intention was to be asleep right now
(23:55:11) HelpingHand: i dont see that happen untill another 12hours
(23:55:35) HelpingHand: but i had it coming
(23:56:00) HelpingHand: eyeballing stims and not have rested in 30 hours tends to be verry inaccurate ^^
(23:56:06) **censored** [*censored*@localhost] hat den Raum betreten.
(23:56:45) HelpingHand: thank god my girlfriend does not come over 2night ^^
(23:56:57) HelpingHand: i got dilated pupils like on mdma
(23:57:04) HelpingHand: visible jaw tension
(23:57:24) HelpingHand: and well, pretty overstimulated
(23:57:58) user1: well we live and we learn
(23:58:14) HelpingHand: i have experienced much much worse
(23:58:17) HelpingHand: i feel pretty good
(23:58:41) HelpingHand: usually, when i am tweaking and didnt sleep a night i hade riding trains and going into the public in broad daylight
(23:59:06) HelpingHand: this is much more comfortable with 2dpmp
(2011-08-22 00:00:25) HelpingHand: but my friend opening his door, staring with these piercing tweaker eyes and telling me, that he needed to show me something
(00:00:31) HelpingHand: scared me shitless
(00:00:53) HelpingHand: he just walked me to the kitchen and asked: can you fix it?
(00:01:00) HelpingHand: =-O
(00:01:36) HelpingHand: kettles, pans forks spoons dinner plates cups all spread on the floor
(00:01:49) HelpingHand: i didnt recognize any system at all
(00:02:03) HelpingHand: and kinda wanted me to ask where his logic flawed
(00:02:11) HelpingHand: it was so fucking awkward
(00:02:35) HelpingHand: i never had to deal with a psychotic person before
(00:03:10) HelpingHand: i then just told him had i had too much chemistry on my mind and could not deal with his "flaw in the system"
(00:03:27) HelpingHand: then he threw the dinner plates in the trash
(00:03:50) HelpingHand: i asked him, if he was going to join me in the living room
(00:04:03) HelpingHand: he just sat down and looked really puzzled
(00:04:37) HelpingHand: like he was trying to figure out some really hard equation in his mind without being able to verbalize his thoughts
(00:05:03) HelpingHand: i asked him some questions like which date it was and his second name and such
(00:05:36) HelpingHand: he answered them confidently and correct but soon fell back in this weird behaviour
(00:05:52) user2: whats really the difference between amphetamine psychosis and sleep deprivation? dont you basically need to be sleep deprived too?
(00:06:04) HelpingHand: i then texted a friend to come by, i gave hime the key to my appartement and told him to get the haloperidol and diazepam
(00:06:06) HelpingHand: boy
(00:06:18) HelpingHand: i really needed to get this off my chest
(00:06:50) user1: sux man
(00:07:06) HelpingHand: user2: think of it as a delusional state of mind while being agitated and obsessive compulsive
(00:07:07) user1: seroquel or trazodone on hand?
(00:07:19) HelpingHand: i am in no way a psychiatrist
(00:07:32) HelpingHand: no, i only had benzos and haloperidol
(00:07:36) HelpingHand: that worked really well
(00:07:53) HelpingHand: and when i asked him to swallow it he even thanked me
(00:08:02) user1: what kinda dosaged did you give him of each?
(00:08:37) HelpingHand: i gave gim 50mg diazepam and 20mg haloperidol
(00:08:41) HelpingHand: himÜ
(00:08:42) HelpingHand: *
(00:09:12) HelpingHand: 2dpmp effectively antagonises hypnotic and tranquilizers
(00:09:20) HelpingHand: so a high dose was called for
(00:09:21) user1: brb the my morning jacket episode of American Dad is on
(00:09:32) user2: haha hes gonna be dopey for like 3 days
(00:09:35) user1: well that should have some kinda effect on him
(00:10:05) user2: what about once the 2dpmp wears off valium lasts like 24+ hrs
(00:10:17) HelpingHand: yeah, he even started to show symptoms of dyskenisia
(00:10:28) HelpingHand: well at least that proves, that the haloperidol was working
(00:10:49) user2: thats fun from valium though
(00:10:50) HelpingHand: after 15 minutes his speech was verry slurred and he was salivating a lot
(00:10:51) user2: hehe
(00:11:00) HelpingHand: but he was able to swallow his salive
(00:11:13) HelpingHand: eventually he laid down and didnt react to mild stimulation
(00:11:20) user2: i havent tried that one but trazodone and seroquel make me feel like ass
(00:11:34) HelpingHand: heart beat went down and breathing was slowed like in sleep
(00:11:54) HelpingHand: user2: these are not fun drugs
(00:12:10) HelpingHand: trazodone is nasty
(00:12:24) HelpingHand: in fact almost all tricyclics are
(00:12:28) user2: it makes me paralysed
(00:12:40) HelpingHand: thats a side effect
(00:12:42) user1: i take trazodone to sleep only
(00:12:43) user2: cant move skeletal muscles after i wake up when i take it
(00:12:51) HelpingHand: they are used off label as sleeping aids
(00:12:58) user2: its like sleep paralysis continues while im awake for 6 hours it sucks
(00:13:18) HelpingHand: i just couldnt get out of my bed after trying it
(00:13:22) user1: it does give me any side effects
(00:13:24) user1: doesn't
(00:13:27) HelpingHand: it sux as a sleeping aid
(00:13:36) HelpingHand: well the sleepiness is a side effect
(00:13:41) user1: not for me
(00:13:46) HelpingHand: but in long term treatment it stops
(00:13:53) HelpingHand: like after 2 or 3 weeks
(00:14:03) user2: yeah methadone drs like to prescribe them cause they know no one will abuse them
(00:14:09) user2: i went thru seroquel and trazodone before mirtazepine finally didnt paralyse me
(00:14:17) HelpingHand: here they prescrive doxepine
(00:14:29) user2: still feels crappy to take it though
(00:15:03) HelpingHand: i am not a big fan of neuroleptic wheter they are modern, atypical or whatnot
(00:15:35) HelpingHand: i hassled with myself about giving my friend the haloperidol
(00:15:41) HelpingHand: but there was no other option
(00:16:15) HelpingHand: i was in no condition to talk to a psychiatrist at the ER
(00:16:32) HelpingHand: and i think i would have to force my friend there
(00:17:02) HelpingHand: he even looked over his shoulder when he went from the kitchen to the living room
(00:17:23) HelpingHand: a very disturbing image seeing him like
(00:17:44) HelpingHand: a sober friend of mine is taking care of him until i got some rest
(00:17:50) HelpingHand: so please excuse me now
(00:17:57) HelpingHand: i seriously need to rest
(00:18:19) HelpingHand: thanks god there is an anonymous chat full off drug users to share such stories
(00:18:24) HelpingHand: really, thank you
(00:18:32) HelpingHand: see you all in a few hours
(00:19:21) user2: see ya man
Turns out, it is still pointless for me to lay down. I just ate something, drank a beer and ingested 5mg of Diazepam and 1mg Clonazepam, which barely have any effect above placebo right now, I guess.
At the moment I think about calling a psychiatric facility and talk to to doc, whether I should admit my friend to the mental institution... I do want to do that, but if he still shows any signs of psychotic behavior when he "wakes up", I have no choice but to do that! Or do you guys think a second dose of haloperidol and diazepam is worth a shot? I guess if was admitted to the ER, they would do the same. They would admister an antipsychotic (Haloperidol is the best choice imo) and dose him with benzos until he is sedated...
I would also like to remind you, that it was his choice to take the meds I offered him, I explained to him what haloperidol does, he was already familiar with all kinds of benzos. He also thanked me for sedating him.
I am in a serious moral and ethical dilemma right now.
Should I wait until he is responsive and judge whether he is fine myself and if he is not, try to extend the antipsychotic medication, or should I just get him into the psych ward anyway as soon as he is able to respond?
If I were to perceive his behavior as normal when he is awake again, I will suggest that he at least talks to a psychiatrist about what happend, anyway.
But I think it should be his choice, but since he is in no condition to make a valid choice, who am I do decide whats best for him?
Dosing him with neuroleptics like haloperidol, even if appreciates it, is somewhat against my beliefs on how those meds should be used.
You see, it was very disturbing to meet him in that condition for me and I really hope that he wakes up in some hours asking himself what he had done, but honestly, I do not see that happen. He was beyond tweaking, " being spun out of your mind" is a whole different dimension to me now. You recognize a psychosis when you see it, especially if you know the persons well.
I need to come to and end now, I am still very wired and of course I am upset but I still think 2dpmp is one of the best stims out there, but you need to be in control of yourself and use it responsible. I also seriously overdid the stuff since yesterday morning, I can imagine that another maybe 20mg now would make me a perfect candidate for the psych ward, too.
But cannot test your limits with this substance as you can with amphetamine and cocaine, for example. I am sure in for some unpleasant and agitating hours, given my reckless dosing pattern and the eyeballing..., but thank god I will spend these attached to reality...
Whew, long post. I hope you care to read it all and reply with some constructive comments.
