Need Help Definitive List of Comfort Meds for Opiate Detox/ log of fent detox.

[pixies+]

Do you have any people in your life that you trust? Can anyone help take care of you?

Even if it’s just dropping meals off.. anything helps.

Not all are lucky to have this..

 

[NY2soFlo]

Do you have any people in your life that you trust? Can anyone help take care of you?

Even if it’s just dropping meals off.. anything helps.

Not all are lucky to have this..

Luckily I do. I have some close friends in my building who are checking in on me, and have offered anything. At most I think a 5 min stop by might bring me some peace, or asking them to grab something from the store (even though I’m well stocked).

I also have my gf who unfortunately doesn’t know exactly what this is. I know I should tell her, but the selfish side of me says “she was just sick as hell (Covid) for 2 weeks and I took care of her, if she sees I’m sick she’s a) not going to question what it is, it makes perfect sense id be sick now, and B) will take care of me with some food and tlc). I’ve done it much rougher than this before. I prepared for the worst though.

I’m also not expecting the full onslaught to come until hours 48+. This stuff was long acting and I know I’m not even at full wd yet.

 

[NY2soFlo]

What about a good NMDA antagonist?
Ketamine helped me tremendously when coming off of ODSMT.
With the physical as well as the psychological symptoms.

Maybe your doc could prescribe it or Memantine?

My doc is pretty cool, it’s a non insurance thing. The first time I went to him and told him the truth he pretty much wrote me a script for whatever I asked for.

Memantine would help with energy and the mental aspect it looks like?

For energy I’m relying on tyrosine and caffeine rn. Not the strongest lineup…

 

[CavernsoftheMind]

My doc is pretty cool, it’s a non insurance thing. The first time I went to him and told him the truth he pretty much wrote me a script for whatever I asked for.

Memantine would help with energy and the mental aspect it looks like?

For energy I’m relying on tyrosine and caffeine rn. Not the strongest lineup…

I haven't tried Memantine myself, but dissociatives in general seem to work extremely well for opioid withdrawal.

I used a small to mid dose of ketamine during the first two days & it stopped RLS completely & made my mood way better.
I was able to relax, had less heat flushes & had more energy.

 

[pixies+]

I’ve heard amazing things about memantine for opi wd. There should be posts on here somewhere. Not super easy to acquire for most.. but I’m also not someone that knows shit about shit when it comes to purchasing from online or dnm.

I’ve tried ket but never for opi wd.
So I can’t speak to that either.
Glad it helped you though!

 

[pixies+]

I’m not giving this as real advice, but when I dropped from 24mg-8mg subs in less then two months, I used diazepam, clonidine, zopiclone and adderall. And black seed oil. And CBD oil.

Though I was an iv coke addict, I hate stimulants. Go figure.

However, Adderall helped get me through the withdrawal. I’ve found that it’s helped many times when I’d be uncomfy.. this was not full blown withdrawal though. Very different situation.

I would never suggest stims while going through it. Just something that helped me during my drop that my doctor advised against.

I was drank myself into the hospital from dropping methadone at 10mg. Lasted two weeks. Ended up nearly killing myself from booze. Was opi free for two weeks and then went on subs. I was a shit flame

 

[NY2soFlo]

I haven't tried Memantine myself, but dissociatives in general seem to work extremely well for opioid withdrawal.

I used a small to mid dose of ketamine during the first two days & it stopped RLS completely & made my mood way better.
I was able to relax, had less heat flushes & had more energy.

This is very interesting. I don’t know where I’d find ketamine, I’m not in that circle, but worth looking into if from my doc.

Thanks for the input

 

[NY2soFlo]

I’m not giving this as real advice, but when I dropped from 24mg-8mg subs in less then two months, I used diazepam, clonidine, zopiclone and adderall. And black seed oil. And CBD oil.

Though I was an iv coke addict, I hate stimulants. Go figure.

However, Adderall helped get me through the withdrawal. I’ve found that it’s helped many times when I’d be uncomfy.. this was not full blown withdrawal though. Very different situation.

I would never suggest stims while going through it. Just something that helped me during my drop that my doctor advised against.

I was drank myself into the hospital from dropping methadone at 10mg. Lasted two weeks. Ended up nearly killing myself from booze. Was opi free for two weeks and then went on subs. I was a shit flame

What did you dose the black seed oil at? Or how often? Mine is 200mg extract equivalent to 5% of whatever the active ingredient is.. thermoquinine or something.

So far, I’ve been taking the prescription meds every six hours or so and it’s definitely helping. I take a passion flower extract and black seed oil extract in the morning and at night currently. But it’s also hard to find information on dosing on these non-prescription meds out there

Also doing 2 g of sodium ascorbate vitamin C every two hours which apparently hundreds of people swear by

 

[pixies+]

@Coffeeshroom do you take passion flower?

Okay, if I’m remembering right.. I may not be.. but I believe the dose is one teaspoon twice a day for BSO. 5%? Mine is 2.5%. The higher the better. Make sure you’re taking cold pressed oil… unless they’re in capsules then.. I’m not sure. I was told by someone on here that I trust very much that cold pressed was best. I have no experience with the capsules so I wouldn’t know the difference.

ALCAR is supposed to be very helpful as well. It’s a peptide. Someone I used to be close to sent me some. Which was very kind of them. I didn’t take it though. So I can’t be helpful there either.

I made sure to take magnesium. I’ve always found magnesium to calm my muscles down and it helped with sleep.

The only thing that concerns me with all the OTC stuff is that it’s so much mixing with other things and I’m scared of having a bad reaction - isn’t that absolutely insane??? just the idea that I would shove god knows what into my veins.. but too scared to take too much magnesium/etc.. lol

I also found sucking on ginger lozenges to be SOOOOOO helpful. The chewy ones.

Drink room temp water with a slice of lemon in it. And get some pedialyte - the orange kind. Or the popsicles. Room temp is easier on the belly.

I know you’re not at your worst yet.. but I’m glad you’re managing so far.

I know when it gets bad you’re going to want to take everything just to make it stop. Try so hard not to overdo that, I mean.. do what you have to do.

If you can get by an clonidine, I’d leave the benzos for the worst of it. However, clonidine helps me get to sleep. Not sure I’d sleep without it even with the zopiclone.

 

[Allylbenzene]

For energy I’m relying on tyrosine and caffeine rn. Not the strongest lineup…

I'd say caffeine itself is a very good choice. Caffeine is pretty unique since it's a metabolic stimulant (unlike amphetamine or cocaine).
This post explains it pretty well, plus how to support caffeines metabolic effects (tldr; provide fuel like carbs/honey).

Symptoms to expect when you do coffee right are calmness, focus, motivation, warmth, and stable energy.

Theanine pairs very well with coffee as it smooths out the actions of caffeine.


To give some context, the bodies main calming/relaxing things are GABA, Adenosine and (endo)cannabinoids.
These balance the main excitory things which are:
- adrenaline
- cortisol
- glutamate

A good one is Magnolia officinalis extract which has pro-GABA and cannabinoid effects.
Theanine stops the stress response (cortisol, adrenaline) and is pro-GABA.

However, clonidine helps me get to sleep.

What about a good NMDA antagonist?
Ketamine helped me tremendously when coming off of ODSMT.

An otc alternative to clonidine is agmatine, it's an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist just like clonidine.
Agmatine is also an NMDA antagonist and "fast-acting antidepressant" (like ketamine).
Agmatine blocks adrenaline & glutamate and is pro-GABA.

Also worth mentioning CBG (cannabigerol), also an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist like clonidine with some cannabinoid effects.
CBG blocks adrenaline and is pro-GABA & pro-cannabinoid.

The main otc Adenosine things I can think of are the terpenes linalool and limonene.
Linalool is pro-GABA, pro-cannabinoid and blocks glutamate = calming
Limonene is anti-stress and raises dopamine = uplifting

All these things mentioned help for sleep!

 

[pixies+]

I knew I was given something else too.

Agmantine. Never tried it.

 

[Allylbenzene]

You could say that agmatine combines the theraputic effects of clonidine and ketamine....but agmatine is a natural endogenous substance.
It's neuroprotective too!

 

[NY2soFlo]

@Coffeeshroom do you take passion flower?

Okay, if I’m remembering right.. I may not be.. but I believe the dose is one teaspoon twice a day for BSO. 5%? Mine is 2.5%. The higher the better. Make sure you’re taking cold pressed oil… unless they’re in capsules then.. I’m not sure. I was told by someone on here that I trust very much that cold pressed was best. I have no experience with the capsules so I wouldn’t know the difference.

ALCAR is supposed to be very helpful as well. It’s a peptide. Someone I used to be close to sent me some. Which was very kind of them. I didn’t take it though. So I can’t be helpful there either.

I made sure to take magnesium. I’ve always found magnesium to calm my muscles down and it helped with sleep.

The only thing that concerns me with all the OTC stuff is that it’s so much mixing with other things and I’m scared of having a bad reaction - isn’t that absolutely insane??? just the idea that I would shove god knows what into my veins.. but too scared to take too much magnesium/etc.. lol

I also found sucking on ginger lozenges to be SOOOOOO helpful. The chewy ones.

Drink room temp water with a slice of lemon in it. And get some pedialyte - the orange kind. Or the popsicles. Room temp is easier on the belly.

I know you’re not at your worst yet.. but I’m glad you’re managing so far.

I know when it gets bad you’re going to want to take everything just to make it stop. Try so hard not to overdo that, I mean.. do what you have to do.

If you can get by an clonidine, I’d leave the benzos for the worst of it. However, clonidine helps me get to sleep. Not sure I’d sleep without it even with the zopiclone.

That’s the plan. Clonidine and hydroxyzine for the sniffles, sneezing and watery eyes. The combo alone saps energy. So I’m using the Valium as needed. And honestly a 5mg pill ain’t a thing for me.

I stagger the otcs so it’s not so much in my stomach at once and I’ve been eating still (appetite good- both real food and junk food honestly). And drinking water. I have pedialyte which I’m more so saving for when the appetite is gone and I need more electrolytes.

Currently taking one passionflower and black seed oil pill Am and Pm. 2.5g vitamin c every two hours.

It’s manageable. Thanks for the support and lending an ear. It helps. I can’t talk to everyone about this, and even if I could most people wouldn’t understand.

 

[NY2soFlo]

To give some context, the bodies main calming/relaxing things are GABA, Adenosine and (endo)cannabinoids.
These balance the main excitory things which are:
- adrenaline
- cortisol
- glutamate

A good one is Magnolia officinalis extract which has pro-GABA and cannabinoid effects.
Theanine stops the stress response (cortisol, adrenaline) and is pro-GABA.



An otc alternative to clonidine is agmatine, it's an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist just like clonidine.
Agmatine is also an NMDA antagonist and "fast-acting antidepressant" (like ketamine).
Agmatine blocks adrenaline & glutamate and is pro-GABA.

Also worth mentioning CBG (cannabigerol), also an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist like clonidine with some cannabinoid effects.
CBG blocks adrenaline and is pro-GABA & pro-cannabinoid.

The main otc Adenosine things I can think of are the terpenes linalool and limonene.
Linalool is pro-GABA, pro-cannabinoid and blocks glutamate = calming
Limonene is anti-stress and raises dopamine = uplifting

All these things mentioned help for sleep!


IMHO caffeine itself is a very good choice. The key is knowing how to use it sustainably. Caffeine is pretty unique since it's a metabolic stimulant (unlike amphetamine or cocaine).
This post explains it pretty well, plus how to support caffeines actions.

btw Theanine pairs very well with coffee as it smooths out the actions of caffeine.

This is all excellent. I have agmatine for my preworkout stack. I also have SAMe.

Caffeine is an adenosine reuptake inhibitor correct?

So other then the passionflower and benzos, some certain cannabinoids can also help affect GABA levels?

I’m going to read your post again. Few more times since I’m pretty foggy right now. But thank you for taking the time to put that all out there. I do a crap load of research but it’s different when someone answers a direct question for you.

 

[NY2soFlo]

Maybe I’ll add the Agmatine and theanine to my caffeine. I really only take 200 mg a day once, when I’m feeling OK, after the meds have kicked in, so I can bang out a little bit of work. Pretty much the bare minimum after that caffeine seems to do the opposite effect of the clonidine – tightens up my chest And doesn’t give me anything calming. It’s purely just rocket fuel to power through whatever I have to do.

 

[Allylbenzene]

This is all excellent. I have agmatine for my preworkout stack. I also have SAMe.

Great! Agmatine doses range from 100mg to 2.6g - it all depends what you're using it for and personal body chemistry.

Please be cautious using SAMe since it influences methylation. It's best to know for certain whether you are an over- or under-methylator beforehand. Even then, i'd say there are safer ways to approach this which allow the body to regulate itself.

Caffeine is an adenosine reuptake inhibitor correct?

Caffeine blocks the adenosine receptors...and GABA receptors too (hence the combo with theanine). Most of caffeines energising effects come from it boosting the metabolic system (inc mitochondria). Mitochondria produce the most potent natural pro-GABA hormone called progesterone.
You can support mitochondria using vitamin B1, glucose, ribose, caffeine and coconut oil.
An alternative to NAD+ is plain nicotinamide, just start low and increase as you see fit; it helps make ATP and also helps GABA.

Image from here​

CBD is an adenosine reuptake inhibitor so it increases adenosine levels. It would pair very well with CBG.

So other then the passionflower and benzos, some certain cannabinoids can also help affect GABA levels?

Yes some cannabinoids help GABA indirectly (only the ones that activate CB1 receptor). Other indirect pro-GABA things are clonidine, agmatine, CBG, theanine.
Magnolia extract is a great synergistic one since it's both cannabinoid and helps GABA (one study said on par with valium).

I forgot to mention Valerian extract which is pro-GABA. It blocks the enzyme that breaks down GABA = more GABA available.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Maybe I’ll add the Agmatine and theanine to my caffeine. I really only take 200 mg a day once, when I’m feeling OK, after the meds have kicked in, so I can bang out a little bit of work. Pretty much the bare minimum after that caffeine seems to do the opposite effect of the clonidine – tightens up my chest And doesn’t give me anything calming. It’s purely just rocket fuel to power through whatever I have to do.

Yes, theanine is the perfect accompaniment to caffeine.
Caffeine can cause a stress response if you either take too much at once and/or haven't had enough carbs/honey (explained here).
Stress response = adrenaline ... theanine/agmatine/clonidine are anti-adrenaline.

You could try splitting the caffeine dose into 2 to make things easier.

I re-read your first post and would definitely recommend daily Agmatine. It will reduce the tolerance build-up from benos and potentiates the effects of most drugs (especially cannabinoids and benzos).
Just please keep in mind that Agmatine shares the same property as clonidine. Agmatine is nowhere near as potent as clonidine though.

 

[NY2soFlo]

Yes, theanine is the perfect accompaniment to caffeine.
Caffeine can cause a stress response if you either take too much at once and/or haven't had enough carbs/honey (explained here).
Stress response = adrenaline ... theanine/agmatine/clonidine are anti-adrenaline.

You could try splitting the caffeine dose into 2 to make things easier.

I re-read your first post and would definitely recommend daily Agmatine. It will reduce the tolerance build-up from benos and potentiates the effects of most drugs (especially cannabinoids and benzos).

I usually take 1g with my pre workout stack, so I’ll start with that. Is there a benefit to taking that X amount of time before any of the other meds that I’m taking? To have it active in my blood? Or can I take it all at once when I take my doses of meds and OTC subs?

 

[Allylbenzene]

I'd take Agmatine and Theanine separately from the meds and OTC subs, just to be on the safe side. Agmatine potentiates the effects of many drugs.
Those 2 should be fine with caffeine. You can always redose agmatine or theanine throughout the day as you see fit. Theanine works well as an evening thing too.

What is your pre workout stack?

FYI - please keep in mind that Agmatine shares the same property as clonidine. Agmatine is nowhere near as potent as clonidine though.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Creatine is worth adding to your tools. You're already using sodium ascorbate which is mentioned.
Creatine shares similarities with ketamine which is prescribed as a antidepressant.

This is a paper looking at the theraputic potential of 4 naturally present substances (agmatine, creatine, guanosine, ascorbic acid)

[An] investigation of the possible role of endogenous glutamatergic neuromodulators for fast antidepressant responses - agmatine, creatine, guanosine, ascorbic acid.

In view of the results which show a similar effect between creatine and ketamine...
...
Interestingly, a single creatine administration was able to reverse cortisol-induced depressive-like behavior...
...
This evidence suggests that creatine could share with ketamine the ability to promote a fast antidepressant-like response.
...
These studies suggest that creatine could present a faster antidepressant effect when compared to conventional antidepressants...

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2470547019858083