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Opioids Defeating the new OC time release

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^while I wholly, 100% agree with you, OD isn't the venue for this sort of legal/socio-political analysis.
 
THIS IS LITTLE MORE THAN EDUCATED CONJECTURE, BUT IT SHOULD (IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER) WORK:

Hypromellose (hydroxypropyl methylcellulose) is the problem. It's a semi-synthetic plastic. It is however, RELUCTANTLY hydrophilic. So patience is a virtue.

This is what I come up with....

Soak the tablet(s) in 100ml body temperature (you're going to need an incubator and a covered beaker) saline with a pH of about 3.5 supplemented with (from health food store) digestive enzymes (pH test strips are easy to find) (accomplished with fresh lemon juice AND 1/2 packet of neutra-phos) for a full 12 hours. Stir occasionally. After 12 hours, you should find the tablet(s) completely dissolved. A colloidal solution of all the ingredients has now formed and should be drinkable.

Like someone before said, mimic the human stomach. It's a warm, acidic, wet, enzymatic, salty place.

A violent shake should complete the dissolution. It won't be the tastiest thing but, c'est la vie.

PS: Use a minuscule amount of the enzyme. Ten salt-grain's worth. Otherwise you'll end up with nothing but metabolites.

What chemistry taketh, chemistry giveth back.%)

PPS: This method is but a rough draft, if you will. Others will tweak it and improve upon it. I don't know the optimum values of all the variables. One might start by simply soaking the pill in plain water for 12 hours and see what happens. Adding and adjusting one variable (temp., pH, salinity, enzyme levels and types) at a time and making careful note of the effect would be, no doubt, useful.

No, you cannot do safely anything with this other than drink it.

WARNING: At first try, purposefully under-dose; the bio-availability of the oxycodone may have been increased by "I don't know how much". Try drinking one-tenth of your "normal dose." Increase cautiously from there. The law of unintended consequences should be held in account.

Taking many tablets at once would be extremely dangerous! A bolus could form, sit largely undisturbed for hours and suddenly break apart, releasing a fatal overdose of oxycodone!
 
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I saw this comin for years.I knew a high dose oxycodone pill that's as easy to bang as dilaudid wouldn't be around forever.like others have said we'll see a huge rise in heroin use and/or complications from iv users injecting the new oc formulation,or switching to ms contin or other high dose er medications like Hydromorph Contin (I'm assuming these are coming to Canada...)too bad for oc users though,I guess they still have the ir pills,but oxycodone isn't all that great compared too others like like dilaudid IMO anyway (and in the eyes of many others too)
 
I just got 40's from my dealer and they have the OP on one side and 40 on the other, and they are much thicker than before. I'm assuming I now have the non abusable ones?

I never crush or snort them anyways, just swallow, but I do sometimes breakthem in half, can I still do this with these?
 
Ashley26 said:
I just got 40's from my dealer and they have the OP on one side and 40 on the other, and they are much thicker than before. I'm assuming I now have the non abusable ones?

I never crush or snort them anyways, just swallow, but I do sometimes breakthem in half, can I still do this with these?
Click to expand...

Let us know how you do...
 
I keep thinking how profitable it would be if you bought a shitload of the original OC's and kept em for a while, until OC becomes a thing of the past, and everyone has the new formula. Then you could charge so much per pill it wouldn't even be funny, but now that I think about it, if I could keep a bunch of originals for that long I know I wouldn't sell any lol.
 
Stop talking about how bad it is that the new formulation is out and start talking about how to start beating the time release. I don't know why there isn't a dedicated thread to getting around the time release, and as far as I'm concerned, people should have already been experimenting with these new formulations and posting their results.

Everyone's upset but no one seems like they can be bothered to do anything. If I had a bottle of 90 new ones, you better believe I'd be playing around with them right away. I'd start by reading up on Hypromellose (HPMC), how it can be broken or its viscocity increased, and what kinds of substances can dissolve it or render it ineffective or even subject to physical damage.

A good place to start would be here... now get on it
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=382c1532be7bde224ff74088b2f68f9f

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a785648389

or this (google this study)

"Modulation of drug release kinetics from hydroxypropyl methyl cellulose matrix tablets using polyvinyl pyrrolidone"

Reading those shows that you'll need something to accelerate the diffusion of OC through the gel, or something to increase viscocity, or something to destroy the matrix. Having read the 3rd study, Betadine may be of tremendous use. Ironically, betadine is manufactured by Purdue... wouldn't it be funny if their time release could be defeated by another of their very own products.

If I had to guess, I would say that you could break the release by soaking the tabs in water until they had gelled up, then either freezing them, or microwaving them. This should work as follows:

Adding water to the pill causes it to become "hydrated" and thus the polymer gels up. The polymer gels up because the water "opens up" the polymer structure which is what allows the drug to escape. By gelling up, the polymer is no longer compact and is "loose". Freezing the pill after it gels up will freeze the water in the now opened polymer, once the tablet is frozen you should be able to crush the tablet and do whatever you want since the matrix is now "open", or you could let the tablet go back to room temperture so the water in the tablet seeps out, or microwave the water out, leaving the matrix open as well but less subject to re-gelling.
 
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I microwaved an OP 80 and was able to shred it down to near OC 80 shredding levels with a filling device. I parachuted it and felt it, but felt like it wasn't as potent as what I am used too. It is still better than nothing, but it took a lot of work and didn't seem to absorb the same way despite me milling it to hell. I am not sure how these fuck heads managed to make this pill 90% abuse proof but they may have succeeded. Maybe all the OC congealed when it was back in my stomach adn became a waxy ball of time release again... who knows. I am gonna try again another time; its possible I didnt feel it much cuz I used a lot of opiates throughout today.
 
Guys, the eudragits don't even have to be listed anymore. So its hard to know what to try to beat. Polyampholytes are such really weird products you will never get them separated from the active component. They bind so tightly its like they are cement. Well, actually, they use the same shit in cement. And it will lock up in your bloodstream in ways they put you at risk in a whole new way.
 
Just go these new ones on 8/20/10, my bottle had some of the OC 20's and some of the OP 20's. The first time I tried to crush and snort the new ones, I rubbed it across my hose clamp and realized something was NOT right. I called the pharmacy because I thought they were trying to pull a switch-a-roo and charge me for Brand when in fact most of the bottle looked like generic. Little did I know, they changed the formulation to be abuse proof. THESE THINGS SUCK A$$. It's like chewing on a pen cap...all plastic! Takes a lot of force to chew it into pieces. I am highly pissed off about this, I don't snort all that much, but I do like to chew into little pieces and then take one of my 20mg Roxy's with it and the punch is usally pretty nice. Now it just isn't the same!!!

Since I just got these, I haven't played to much with them to see what can be done about getting the med to release faster. I will be reading many posts here and if I figure anything out, I will be glad to share. For now, I am glad I have the Roxy's or I would be highly depressed. I do suffer from a great deal of lower and upper back pain. 3 bulging disks, severe arthritis and muscle spasms. These new OC's seem to take longer to kick in than the original formula, even if you chew them into little pieces. I was thinking about telling my doctor that these aren't working for me anymore and to possibly raise my dose, but I do not want him to be suspicious and then cut me off completely...so what is a person to do? :\
 
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Someone posted in wetdreams, maybe those guys can do something. There is a procedure for pseudoephedrine tablets to remove that polymer shit. Pseudoephedrine is needed for amphetamine/crystel synthesis, so it's a big deal and well known to people who produce it. I really hope that one of that guys knows how to extract the oxycodone safely for all purposes (eating, snorting, and I.V. of course which is the most important in my mind).

If I lived in the USA and was an oxy user there, I'd ask my doctor to put me on roxy's. They are instant release tablets, right? And 60mg roxies are about to hit the market, I've heard. Maybe switch to dilaudid tablets? Or morphine?

We know that the new OP's can be extracted with an advanced extraction, with a complex solvent. At first, the polymer has to be removed. Then an a/b extraction.
 
Occam's Razor may apply here:

Soak the tablets in cool water (250ml) for 24 hours. Once the Hydoxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) is gelled, they can be placed in a powerful blender (the faster and sharper the blade the better) for a few minutes, adding ice chips (as needed) to avoid over heating (you want to keep the temp between 20C and 38C.) An instant read thermometer is essential, IMO.

And voila! You have separated the drug from it's excipients. The opiate is water soluble, the HPMC is not. It should then have formed a colloidal solution, which is basically non-filterable. One could then drink the milky liquid.

Would someone try this and tell me if it works? I don't take OC.

EDIT:

If bits of HPMC remain, filter with a super-fine, copper mesh coffee filter.
 
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FormerPianoMan said:
Occam's Razor may apply here:

Soak the tablets in cool water (250ml) for 24 hours. Once the Hydoxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) is gelled, they can be placed in a powerful blender (the faster and sharper the blade the better) for a few minutes, adding ice chips (as needed) to avoid over heating (you want to keep the temp between 20C and 38C.) An instant read thermometer is essential, IMO.

And voila! You have separated the drug from it's excipients. The opiate is water soluble, the HPMC is not. It should then have formed a colloidal solution, which is basically non-filterable. One could then drink the milky liquid.

Would someone try this and tell me if it works? I don't take OC.
Click to expand...
The first time I encounter one of these I will try this. I was thinking exactly the same thing, actually. I don't see how it could fail to work, but perhaps I'm missing something.
 
I have an exra OC I can risk losing if it doesn't work... so can I use just an ordinary household blender? If the OC is water soluable and the HPMC is not, then once blended, will I have to pick out any pieces or something of the HPMC or can I just pour it out and drink it? If someone can give me specific step by step instructions, I will try it tomorrow maybe... I have to have a moment, when I am home alone and the kiddo's aren't around.. haha.
 
mr.muncheez said:
I have an exra OC I can risk losing if it doesn't work... so can I use just an ordinary household blender? If the OC is water soluable and the HPMC is not, then once blended, will I have to pick out any pieces or something of the HPMC or can I just pour it out and drink it? If someone can give me specific step by step instructions, I will try it tomorrow maybe... I have to have a moment, when I am home alone and the kiddo's aren't around.. haha.
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You're not going to lose the tablet; worse case scenario is that you'll get what you started with.

I've never done this but (knowing the properties of these HPMC bound tablets) after a LONG soak in room temp water (12hrs at least) they should be fully hydrated.

After the tablets are hydrated, they may still be intact, holding (partially) on to the opiate.

After a pass in a household blender, one of three (or more) things could happen:

1 A colloidal solution of the tablets an the water will form, completely dissolving all the opiate into the water, along with all the excipients (binders.) This would be an ideal situation. Just drink the solution.

2 The tablets will be fragmented, but the HPMC will remain intact, albeit in tiny chunks. If this happens, another soak and blend cycle might prove useful. A portion of the opiate may remain in the HPMC otherwise. Even if the HPMC is partially intact, the time release function of it would likely be greatly diminished, at the very least.

3 The HPMC will not fragment, despite blending. (I doubt this.) If this happens, rethink it. Using the micro-plane before the "soak and blend" may be necessary. Hydrating, freezing them SOLIDLY in an ice cube then blending (w/o water, at first) may fracture them properly. Also, the blender blade must be sharp and fast. Water can be added after you've made the shaved ice and can be blended again.

PS: Being an unknown, I would not drink any remaining HPMC fragments. They may have negative physical effects such as diverticulitis or appendicitis. If fragments remain, filter them out. Soak and blend a second time before filtering, to remove as much remaining opiate as possible. The process cannot be rushed.

I have heard (rumor, I hope) that drug companies are working on a way to include naloxone in their tablets. If taken whole, the naloxone stays bound in a plastic-like bead and is not an active ingredient. If the above method were applied to those tablets, it would free the naloxone and render them inert. As of now, these do not exist and are years away from production, if at all.
 
It's time to say goodbye to my friend.. I've known it's been a long time coming and it's probably for the better..

Sigh..

The new ones are around here.. My buddy doesn't think the lower dosage ones are being changed but he's in for a surprise.. I couldn't break him the news on those yet. Funny thing is I told him to look out for the OPs and then bam 2 days later.. There they are.
 
sweetstufflover said:
Someone posted in wetdreams, maybe those guys can do something. There is a procedure for pseudoephedrine tablets to remove that polymer shit. Pseudoephedrine is needed for amphetamine/crystel synthesis, so it's a big deal and well known to people who produce it. I really hope that one of that guys knows how to extract the oxycodone safely for all purposes (eating, snorting, and I.V. of course which is the most important in my mind).

If I lived in the USA and was an oxy user there, I'd ask my doctor to put me on roxy's. They are instant release tablets, right? And 60mg roxies are about to hit the market, I've heard. Maybe switch to dilaudid tablets? Or morphine?

We know that the new OP's can be extracted with an advanced extraction, with a complex solvent. At first, the polymer has to be removed. Then an a/b extraction.
Click to expand...

What ??60 mg roxis...could this be true...OMG that would be awesome...having the same issue with the op ..they do suck
 
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