Opioids Dealing with opiate addiction - current situation.

[Tenninethousand]

So, I have been using opiates for almost three years now. Like a lot of people I started off with hydros and percs...then roxys, then opanas. Things really started getting out of hand when I became adjusted to the oxymorphone high - oxycodone and below just wouldn't do it for me anymore. After experiencing Opana withdrawals multiple times..I decided it was time to focus on school and take the opiate fun out of my life for good. I got a bunch of suboxones (enough for 3 weeks) and took pretty small doses each day. I ran out yesterday and was not expecting any withdrawals.....I was wrong. They're not even close to Opana withdrawals but damnit, they're pretty bad. I know 3 weeks isn't that long to be on them...but I definitely feel like I am in withdrawals...it's not mental either because I was not expecting it at all. Anyway, at this point in time...I CANNOT be feeling like shit because I have so much studying and school work to be done. I did about 15mg of roxy today and it has helped a lot with the wd's but I feel scared because I'm back at square one. Is it a bad idea to do small amounts of opiates to counteract the suboxone wd's or do you think I'll be having withdrawals from the oxy just from like two days of using again? I felt like I had my life back for a while...but now it's all back again. Suggestions?

 

[Jabberwocky]

15mg roxi isn't gonna make the w/d that much worse in the long run. The obvious point is just not to use it much more. I used to be in a situation back when I was a heroin addict during uni. I found that adderall or some related stim taken in the morning would allow me to power through my work for most of the day when I was in pretty bad w/d (worse that what you're suffering from, although I don't mean to belittle you).

There are lots of ways and meds you can minimize the discomfort and distraction that w/d can bring. Meds such as clonidine, loperamide and neurontin are pretty much the gold standard in terms of non-suboxone/methadone treatments for your situation.

Make sure to get as much sleep as possible (that will help more than you know), and each regularly (the more lean protein and fiber from leafy green veggies and fruits the better). Also make sure you thoroughly hydrate yourself (I find things like soda and coffee are very inferior when next to energy drinks like gatorade; you should also try something called Kombucha as far as drinks that will help go).

Vitamin B-12 or -Complex will also give you a help up in terms of increasing your energy without tweaking.

If worse comes to worse, you might just want to try to take just enough opioids every day or every other day to avoid the bad parts of acute w/d your suffering from. Of course this is a very slipper slope and extremely hard to do, but if you find your work that important you just might have no other choice. Of course if you could just find some more suboxone to get you through finals/exams that would be idea.

At the end of the days, by doing what I suggested in terms of sleep, eating and hydrating, I never had a problem with my exams and w/d, although I also found 10-20mg Adderall in the AM to help too.

Good luck!

You should totally post about your situation over in The Dark Side too, as they're pretty cool people and have a lot of good advice. They're also great at giving support and feedback.

 

[i are spectre]

man just get on suboxone. it's too hard to fart around trying to keep straight during school man. you cant pause school and withdrawal you know. i remember taking my organic chem 1 exam with 4 days no sleep, shaking i could barely draw a hexagon, all sweaty... that was NOT fun. I did get a 4.0 though =)

 

[Jabberwocky]

yea, and somehow I came out with a 3.88 and honors when I graduated... anything possible if you just set your mind to it, that's one of my fav mottos.

BTW, OP studying will also help distract your from w/d so it can actually be a benefit, not just a curse.

 

[Znegative]

yea, and somehow I came out with a 3.88 and honors when I graduated... anything possible if you just set your mind to it, that's one of my fav mottos.

BTW, OP studying will also help distract your from w/d so it can actually be a benefit, not just a curse.

Lol, yeah, I managed a 3.7 GPA with an IV heroin/cocaine habit, as well as a benzo addiction. I think a lot of us here on bluelight have been able to maintain some semblance of a functioning addiction, but don't get the wrong idea, there were some dark times.

OP, 15mg of oxy is really not going back to square one. Bupe is a very potent opioid, so in a sense, you can look at those 15mg of oxycodone as just a smaller, shorter acting (and probably more euphoric) dose of suboxone. I don't know what you consider a small dose of suboxone, but to give you perspective, IV injections of .3mg of buprenorphine is equal to 10mg of IV morphine. And if you've been taking your suboxone sublingually, the BA is around 30%, so 1mg sublingually equals .3mg IV. The ammount of oxy you took is kind of just like taking a milligram of suboxone sublingually (though like I said, the relief from withdrawal will be shorter lived due to the short half life).

Seem people actually use short acting full agonists to detox off bupe. Theyll switch to a drug like hydrocodone for a couple of weeks (until the bupe is out of the system) and then try to taper down and kick the hydro. I personally don't know if I could have the discipline to do this, but in theory, it makes sense, as the hydrocodone withdrawals are much shorter.

 

[Fire&Water]

Lol, yeah, I managed a 3.7 GPA with an IV heroin/cocaine habit, as well as a benzo addiction. I think a lot of us here on bluelight have been able to maintain some semblance of a functioning addiction, but don't get the wrong idea, there were some dark times.

OP, 15mg of oxy is really not going back to square one. Bupe is a very potent opioid, so in a sense, you can look at those 15mg of oxycodone as just a smaller, shorter acting (and probably more euphoric) dose of suboxone. I don't know what you consider a small dose of suboxone, but to give you perspective, IV injections of .3mg of buprenorphine is equal to 10mg of IV morphine. And if you've been taking your suboxone sublingually, the BA is around 30%, so 1mg sublingually equals .3mg IV. The ammount of oxy you took is kind of just like taking a milligram of suboxone sublingually (though like I said, the relief from withdrawal will be shorter lived due to the short half life).

Seem people actually use short acting full agonists to detox off bupe. Theyll switch to a drug like hydrocodone for a couple of weeks (until the bupe is out of the system) and then try to taper down and kick the hydro. I personally don't know if I could have the discipline to do this, but in theory, it makes sense, as the hydrocodone withdrawals are much shorter.

Do you think you are "tricked" by your brain, as in just prolonging the opana w/d's by using small amounts of bupe' for a short time, or once all of the morphone' leaves your bloodstream/receptors you are just dealing with bupe' w/d's - or do you think the withdrawls are a combination of both meds'...? -thoughts- ?

 

[Jabberwocky]

combo. it's more complex than either/or ime. assuming you can taper (when it comes to stuff like bupe/done that is super long acting), I have always found it was waaaaaay easier just to deal with what I have to and keep it simple than make things more complicated/less predictable, but that's just me. and when it comes to shorter acting opioids like heroin, I'm a big proponent of c/t (assuming you're not taking Olympian doses or something crazy), cause you know more or less exactly what you're going to go through and what to do to make it near painless. again, this is just me and my experience tho. I never had a really really big habit that I didn't first taper down from (like from 4 bundles/day down to four bags a day then doing c/t).

 

[Tenninethousand]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm still sort of confused about something, though. By me taking the oxy...will that prolong the withdrawal symptoms or because it's not bupe, it will be like starting all over with normal opiates? I don't know if I worded that well, I'm sort of in a rush. But yeah...anymore suggestions?

 

[Fire&Water]

combo. it's more complex than either/or ime. assuming you can taper (when it comes to stuff like bupe/done that is super long acting), I have always found it was waaaaaay easier just to deal with what I have to and keep it simple than make things more complicated/less predictable, but that's just me. and when it comes to shorter acting opioids like heroin, I'm a big proponent of c/t (assuming you're not taking Olympian doses or something crazy), cause you know more or less exactly what you're going to go through and what to do to make it near painless. again, this is just me and my experience tho. I never had a really really big habit that I didn't first taper down from (like from 4 bundles/day down to four bags a day then doing c/t).

The more perspectives the better. I know for myself the 2nd (and last) time I had to switch from M'done' to Subtex' I treated myself to a 17 day oxymorphone vacation - waited 24 hours so I could re-live how good the first (and only) high dose of 12 mg's really works. From there an every other day taper to down between 2-4 mg's (or less) is a healthy requirement when it comes to buprenorphine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm still sort of confused about something, though. By me taking the oxy...will that prolong the withdrawal symptoms or because it's not bupe, it will be like starting all over with normal opiates? I don't know if I worded that well, I'm sort of in a rush. But yeah...anymore suggestions?

it will just prolong the w/d a bit. It will not be like w/d from oxycodone all by itself. It will not be like starting all over with normal opioids to specifically answer you question. That is, assuming you don't become fully dependent all over again with the oxy and keep taking it for a long time... But from what you said about where you're at right now with the bupe w/d, a little oxy is just going to prolong/intensify the bupe w/d you're already suffering from (and don't worry, it won't do so very much, the oxy will only prolong the withdrawal a little bit).

The more perspectives the better. I know for myself the 2nd (and last) time I had to switch from M'done' to Subtex' I treated myself to a 17 day oxymorphone vacation - waited 24 hours so I could re-live how good the first (and only) high dose of 12 mg's really works. From there an every other day taper to down between 2-4 mg's (or less) is a healthy requirement when it comes to buprenorphine.

Totally agree, although the lower the dose you jump off bupe from, the better off you're are. Even if taking every other day, I always seem to find 1mg the most one can comfortably w/d from. For some reason I find it a lot more comfy to take it every day and just slowly taper down to 0.5-0.25mg, sometimes alternating those dosages every other day. But, of course, to each his or her own. Everyone is different. But at the same time, we're pretty much in agreement with our numbers on the bupe taper schedule.

 

[Tenninethousand]

Once again, thanks for the replies. But, I've read multiple times that bupe withdrawals last longer but are less intense. Does this mean I'll have the chills and other symptoms for a week or just a couple of days? Withdrawals are my reasoning for quitting opiates all together. They are just not worth the fucking stress anymore. I just had some adderall and hopefully the dopamine rush will keep my mind away from the chills and what not. FML.

 

[Fire&Water]

it will just prolong the w/d a bit. It will not be like w/d from oxycodone all by itself. It will not be like starting all over with normal opioids to specifically answer you question. That is, assuming you don't become fully dependent all over again with the oxy and keep taking it for a long time... But from what you said about where you're at right now with the bupe w/d, a little oxy is just going to prolong/intensify the bupe w/d you're already suffering from (and don't worry, it won't do so very much, the oxy will only prolong the withdrawal a little bit).



Totally agree, although the lower the dose you jump off bupe from, the better off you're are. Even if taking every other day, I always seem to find 1mg the most one can comfortably w/d from. For some reason I find it a lot more comfy to take it every day and just slowly taper down to 0.5-0.25mg, sometimes alternating those dosages every other day. But, of course, to each his or her own. Everyone is different. But at the same time, we're pretty much in agreement with our numbers on the bupe taper schedule.

Buprenorphine (I like the Midloathian - Hi Tech brand) in conjunction w/ a full agonist med' work great for certain types of chronic pain.
Especially to combat the rebound effects of short acting meds'

 

[Kalimichaels]

Dont take anymore opiates at all. The withdrawals you are having are from the suboxone. If you do a bit of research you will find that suboxone is an addictive drug in itself. 3 weeks was a bit long for you to be taking it, even if in small doses. You should only need about a weeks supply (about 4 subs). The first day you take a whole one which will last you all day and through the next morning. The next day you take a half in the afternoon and so on. I hope you get better because I have been in youre shoes and understand the struggle.

 

[Miss Kirsty]

Now that he has already taken the oxy again, maybe it would be easier to taper on them for a few days, say no more than three days? What do you others think? TPD ?

 

[Swain]

yea, and somehow I came out with a 3.88 and honors when I graduated... anything possible if you just set your mind to it, that's one of my fav mottos.

BTW, OP studying will also help distract your from w/d so it can actually be a benefit, not just a curse.

I sustained a serious habit in college too, first oxy then heroin, and I made it through. I didn't have that high of a gpa.. but it was still good. It was around a 3.5 even thoiugh my core gpa was higher. SInce I graduated college its been a fwe years and I feel like i just watsted the time. I coulda gotten a masters during this time instead of doin jack shit shitty jobs. That being said..there were a few times I remember being so SICK in class it was insane. I remember going to cop in Paterson and getting pulled over by the police (not arrested thank god) and I was so damn sick, then I was so late for class I had to go there without having copped and I was like basically throwing up sweating bullets in class. If you can sustain your habit it does not present too much of a problem. I spent thousands, especially when I was spending over 2 bills a day doing roxies.

I would absolutely not use any full agonists while withdrawing from suboxone. Not on,ly will it set you back physically, it was set you back mentally WAY far. You get that relief and high and soon you are back where you started (at least that's how it goes for me) using everyday and developing dependency.

If you are dependent phsdyically on opiates, there is no way to avoid withdrawals. At some point you will have to go through them. Now you can taper as low as possible which will greatly reduce them. But using bupe to detox off oxy, no mattter how you do it at the very least you will experience some PAWS unless you had a really small habit. There is just no running from it. Your best bet is to stay the course. It sounds like you are doin really good without taking the full agonists to help with withdrawal.. I'd try and keep it that way or all th work you have done wil be down the drain.

 

[1sweetpeach]

Once again, thanks for the replies. But, I've read multiple times that bupe withdrawals last longer but are less intense. Does this mean I'll have the chills and other symptoms for a week or just a couple of days? Withdrawals are my reasoning for quitting opiates all together. They are just not worth the fucking stress anymore. I just had some adderall and hopefully the dopamine rush will keep my mind away from the chills and what not. FML.

Yep, sub WD is not as mind and body wrenching as reg WD's and does last a bit longer. Every time i've kicked w/subs i'm usually functional w/a little OTC help. I usually experience the chills and sleeplessness occasionally for a month or more BUT my metabolism is slooooow and i have chronic pain issues and am just a wuss.

It gets better. Really. It does. just keep off the opiates and you will see the difference soon.

Seriously try the Loperamide. It works wonders for me w/the chills you're describing. It just might take the edge off enough to get you through it.

I'm right here w/you. I stopped my subs 16 days ago but have used occasionally since then for varying reasons but I WANT to be clean soo bad. Continuing to use, even sporadically, is keeping me in a kind of limbo and I know that I can get past it and so can you.

I cant wait for the day when I wake up and feel good again. I remember it from getting clean in the past. So worth it. Good luck!!