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Daoism

^ good post, i dig it

my asian philosophy teacher is getting into taoism now
and it pisses me off cause he's getting it wrong, i think
he says that you can "break the tao"
that the tao isn't everything
which is false
i don't think you can ever be outside of tao
you're always there
you just don't always realize it

i think tao is the same as god
except god is a noun
while tao is a verb
(if that makes any sense...they both mean "everything" but in different ways...of course, neither way is fully COMPLETE, as it cannot be...if you're talking about everything)

yea i also don't think judaism really disagrees with taoism (i am also jewish...well...barely so...but my reform temple even said you can not believe in god and still be jewish...so i guess there is no way i could NOT be jewish. i like the golden rule)
taoism doesn't say anything about what happens after you die, though
at least the tao te ching doesn't

reform judaism doesn't make any claims to a life after death, either, from what i know, however
at least i've never really heard of any
*shrugs*

:) cheers
 
study judaism like you would philosphy. in depth and from the anceint texts with the help of commentary. you will see that the inner workings of judaism work better for me at attaining dao then any contemporary english book about dao does. One day you'll get to kabalah and ur view of everything will change.
 
i've read some kabbalah but it didn't seem as self-conscious to me as tao te ching

i'm not saying it's wrong or anything, they are, after all, both talking about the same thing

but the tao te ching is just written MUCH better than anything else i've read
so i like it :)

i'm not rejecting judaism by any means, i just don't care for the traditions
the golden rule is the only thing i think you really need to know from judaism ("treat others like you would want to be treated")
...everything else is just commentary, brother
 
^ i think you're talking about christianity...;)

i just browsed through the whole tao te ching
and i didn't find anything of the sort
i think you are always one with the tao...you needn't wait until you die

in fact, i found like 5-10 poems that give help on avoiding death...
 
^ sorry I don't think there would be any "taoist" instructors who really know the tao

i know i would not "instruct" taoism
it's missing the point

look through the tao te ching
i mean
you can call it taoism if you wish, but it's like saying that catholicism follows jesus' teachings
where...ya know...it adds all KINDS of stuff to them
some of which are probably contradictory
 
I'm sorry, I'm not good at this forum-format...I am sorry if I offended you or your teacher.

This is all just my personal opinion, after all.
My life isn't perfect, I am no ultimate authority on anything (except, I guess, my life).

I'm being hypocritical in trying to teach Tao on a message board, when I myself just said that I would not try to teach it.

I shouldn't.

peace
 
to the outside observer kablah is meaningless... take madonna for instance..i can't beleive she tatooed gods name expressing infinity (he was he is he will be, jahova in hebrew). Any way we have a saying, with out torah there is not kabalah and without respect/ kindnes there is no torah. It's difficult to look at kabalah when u don't have the previous studies down. Judaisim like the kungfu i take is a package so to speak, a system. you need all parts of the system for it to truly work and to be able to put the peices together. Daoisim is not so much a system but a way of sharing the resutl of our system through elucidating the student to find his own path. it is not structured enough for me, and many great minds have sturggled with it (take the many chineese philsosiphers who have sturggled with it). History has shown us thta nto everyone was geared to be abel to "get daoisim". I value it for it's philosophy and the fact it does not go against what i beleive. However taoism is a subjective sceince based upon objective thought (think about that one). Taosim can only start with the idea of the one and the breakdown into heave/earth (yin/yang) this may be the same as our torah but we have developed far more metaphysics whihc taoisim is nto even concerned with. Taoism leaves too much of a void for me.
 
^
"I Ching

I Ching (ê jîng) noun
A Chinese book of ancient origin consisting of 64 interrelated hexagrams along with commentaries. The hexagrams embody TaoistTao philosophy by describing all nature and human endeavor in terms of the interaction of yin and yang, and the book may be consulted as an oracle.



theories on the I-Ching

Imagine that a being from an advanced culture gave you a toy designed to both entertain you and instruct you in the workings of our reality matrix. The toy works like this: at any moment, you can freeze the flow of time into a very small slice which not only tells you the nature of the moment, but why you chose it, the ramifications of having chosen it, and three other co-ordinates of change that create the moment and the choice.

Essentially, the I Ching, the gift of Fu Hsi, is such a toy. Any means of random selection can be used - counting yarrow stalks, tossing coins or a binary computer program - to provide the hexagram which marks the quality of that moment. This hexagram is then interpreted by various methods and then related to other hexagrams to provide an inclusive and holistic perspective on the evolution of that moment in time. The value of such knowledge, however, comes from our ability to make use of it."

QUOTED FROM
http://fusionanomaly.net/agrippa.html


Sounds strikinlgy similar to the qabbalah to me.





Here is an interesting site comparing I Ching and the ten Sefiroth.
http://www.kheper.net/topics/I_Ching/IChing_and_Sefirot.html
 
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Of all the religons, daoism is the one for me. Buddism almost has it right, but pretty much everything you need to know is in the lao tsu's book. Of course you dont need to know any of that- its all around you. So read it or dont read it. You certainly shouldnt need any other books.
 
I'm pretty sure I couldnt survive any other way. But Im not saying that I resemble *AT ALL* anyone that the Dao de Jing describes.
 
Hessel said:
Buddism almost has it right, but pretty much everything you need to know is in the lao tsu's book.
Click to expand...
What do you find wrong about Buddhism? Buddhism can exist in perfect harmony with Taoism as far as I know and is essentially based around the sound concepts.





bleedingheartcommie said:
well said^^^

do you think it's possible to be a daoist and survive in america... or any industrialized society?
Click to expand...

Generally speaking I think it is probably mroe difficult to fully live in the way of the Dao in America since it the society here is setup to where you are encouraged and manipulated to go with the flow. That said there seem to be little niches here and there where living in the way of the Dao is not only possible but encouraged.
 
Originally posted by yougene
What do you find wrong about Buddhism? Buddhism can exist in perfect harmony with Taoism as far as I know and is essentially based around the sound concepts.
Click to expand...

They are pretty much in agreement, but the fact that there are different forms of buddhism that all stress a (slightly) different path to enlightenment kinda turns me off.. to think there is any one right way to go about things is folly, imo.

I guess if you followed only buddhaz exact teachings that would pretty much mirror the tao exactly, but as far as I know they have been lost. And just the volume of written information I have seen is bizarre, considering how easy to understand (not really understand, but you know what I mean) it should all be... Putting soo many words onto the subject is counterproductive.

AND finally, elimination of desire is no good in my book. Why strive to feel/not feel something when you should simply exist, and embrace your feelins' and desires?

But all that shit I just typed constitutes only the most minor of complaints. Buddhism is far superior to most other belief systems, I mean, any religon that teaches people to question it all and look for their own meanings is fucking terrific.
 
Bhodi Pavlovian - as I know, the Dharma wheel changed over time, originally having many 'spokes' - symbolizing the constant and ever cycling events of birth, death and re-birth (samsara) - which later changed to one of a few different types representing the eight fold path, having eight spokes, or being an octagon - or having four spokes or 'jinas' representing either the four moments in buddhas life, or the four noble truths - depending on where and who you get your info from. I have seen a Chinese symbol, one which supposedly represents the universe, that has three partitions as you speak of - not spokes like the dharma wheel, but like a tri-sectioned yin/yang - though, I honestly don't know what the three sections themselves represent.



Ayekah - Lack of metaphor??? but, then -
TRUE DAO CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN WORDS.
Click to expand...
- exactly, right, so - Taoism & most Eastern thought is transferred through nothing else but metaphor, as that is the only way Truth can be alluded to - it can never be spoken directly - hinted at.....if you know the language..


Daoist used to beleive they could trancend, it's where they got the jesus story from.. that paul... The daosit have stories of great spiritual leaders disapearing from their rooms during meditation and their clothes were left behind
Click to expand...


This kinda lost me, maybe I'm just retarded.:\


I am ENERGY.
I AM DAO.
I AM
I
Click to expand...

One way Tao can be looked at, is as the interconnectedness of all things, the inherent interdependence of all things in existence, to exist (as you spoke of about the tree) - only the whole can claim to truly be "I" - but no apparent individual part should try to claim itself as "I" - that is an absurdity. There is no "I", it is merely a false pretense of the EGO - only AM, for AM is the state of being to which Tao relates - "I" is, and should only be used as a linguistic formality.

"I" is the barrier that keeps you from attaining to that state of being.

Confuciusm - ruled because that is precisely what it is - rule. The same is alive and well today with religions & governments and most societally structured systems. Tao is not a form of rule, it is the exact opposite - freeform & flowing - it wishes not to possess or control you, it *is*, and if you attain & attune to it, you'll find - you are too!

The concepts are similar among many cultures throughout history, around the globe.

I don't know about any contemporary english novels about Tao - but as I attempted to illustrate earlier, any deities associated with Tao were made so either later in history, by others than one who is true to Tao, or part of traditional Chinese folklore which got intermingled with it - but Tao and the concept of a deity are diametrically opposed. Though, transcendental people do exist, only an onlooker of Tao would consider them deities - a participant of Tao would merely recognize their naturally attuned, harmonic vibrancy of being.

Leg - I have always said that, if you are going to ever use the word God (which I personally don't like) - it should be a verb, and not a noun - it should be the most dynamic verb there is!


oopsy daisy - Immortality to the Taoist is as you have spoken, its not about remaining in the physical body forever, but about fully returning to Tao consciously -

Its all about one word (it could be a few) = awareness!


There is so much more to it, and, really, nothing to it at all - infinite combinations of words will draw you no closer to realizing it for yourself - though I, and all of us here can keep going on about it, only the active realization of it and attunement to it, itself, will allow it to unfold itself for you when you are ready...ready to accept...


Peace, Balance, Harmony

Love & Light
 
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Hessel said:
They are pretty much in agreement, but the fact that there are different forms of buddhism that all stress a (slightly) different path to enlightenment kinda turns me off.. to think there is any one right way to go about things is folly, imo.
Click to expand...



And I would say that the notion of only one way would be folly. Its the beuty of choice. Did god create only one tree, one temperature, one type of sand, one bird? nope. In fact there are differentation in everything in this universe, from fingerprints to ice cream flavours. It allows for choice, and for individual paths to be followed. One person meditates near an ocean, another on a mountain. Its not just about being in different places, but finding things that you can relate to and find peace within.



I guess if you followed only buddhaz exact teachings that would pretty much mirror the tao exactly, but as far as I know they have been lost. And just the volume of written information I have seen is bizarre, considering how easy to understand (not really understand, but you know what I mean) it should all be... Putting soo many words onto the subject is counterproductive.


AND finally, elimination of desire is no good in my book. Why strive to feel/not feel something when you should simply exist, and embrace your feelins' and desires?
Click to expand...


I think its more about the elimination of the ego. Read up on that, even some people around here have recorded such experiences. To take a few words to describe these states I'd say they are superior, perfect, and the ultimate human existance. Though your comment can be taken it two ways. To strive to feel/not feel can be used to elimitate ego, to embrace feelings and desires to silence them (face them and dispel them) can be used to elimitate ego. There are many paths towards that end.
 
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