CWE. How many times/how much water do you put through per pack?

[elgoucho9]

So since recently i have been doing CWE's on the 8mg/500mgs.

I put around 600ml water through per pack. But then i rewashed one the other day that had dried.

Am i not using enough water?

 

[BadBoy377]

Sounds like too much. I use about 70ml @ 40-50c. Sit in water bath of same temperature. Shake every 15 mins. Then after that I put in freezer for approx an hour. Filter it at two degrees. Might give it another wash with 10ml. But I dry, crystalise and weigh. I can send you me full method of you desire.

 

[elgoucho9]

I put the whole pack ontop of the mesh. Pour 200ml ice cold water through.

Take the mesh off. Put it on top of another mesh.

Get another 200ml water and do the same again.

Then repeat once more. So 600ml of water through it.

And it seems only like ive drank the full 600ml water i feel like ive had 240mg codeine.

 

[BadBoy377]

Seems like a lot of water. Maybe I'm wrong. But my results are good.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

I used to used a our 500ml for one whole pack of co-codamol but it is way too much.
Codeine phosphate is very soluble in water, about 60mg I think dissolves in 1ml of water.

For 300mg codeine phosphate I've seen people on here say to use 30ml to 50ml (Very cold!) at most!

Here's a link via an Aussie Uni about CWE on codeine with ibuprofen, aspirin and paracetamol.
The CWE's have high rates of paracetamol and aspirin in them too.
I've not read it all yet though.

Loading…

research-repository.uwa.edu.au

 

[AlsoTapered]

Library Genesis

libgen.li

Paper 'Solubility of Paracetamol in Pure Solvents'.

Figure 7 provides a solubility curve of paracetamol in dH2O.

Figures for the solubility of codeine phosphate in dH2O vary but it's somewhere between 1 gram in 2.5-10mL of dH2O.

 

[Bleaney]

I used to used a our 500ml for one whole pack of co-codamol but it is way too much.
Codeine phosphate is very soluble in water, about 60mg I think dissolves in 1ml of water.

For 300mg codeine phosphate I've seen people on here say to use 30ml to 50ml (Very cold!) at most!

Here's a link via an Aussie Uni about CWE on codeine with ibuprofen, aspirin and paracetamol.
The CWE's have high rates of paracetamol and aspirin in them too.
I've not read it all yet though.

Loading…

research-repository.uwa.edu.au

Fantastic post, a research link like this needed finding and posting years ago. Thank you for finding at posting one!! This is so good to know, I always wondered if ther was any scientific research into CWEs and now I know!

I only read the abstract, which contained the salient findings, that basically any paracetomol CWEs and you're still going to be left with 70%-80% of the paracetomol. Obviously that is extremely bad and many people have been labouring under a false sense of security all this time, thinking they were safe from liver toxicity when they were very far from it. Myself included, but fortunately I've never been into CWEs in a big way, maybe been through a handful of phases of trying them for a week or 2. Hopefully no long te damage has bneen done to me or anyone else.

I will definitely only be getting the codeine ibuprofen formulations from now on, with the CWEs apparently filtering out up to 94% of the ibuprofen in those formulations.

Nurofen or w/e they are called here I come I guess. No point spending loads on clearnet codeine when OTC Nurofen formulations are so much cheaper and just as safe to CWE by the looks of it.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I forgot to mention that if one is employing a CWE of codeine phosphate from paracetamol, look after your liver and kidneys by taking a methionine supplement. For many years UK doctors could prescribe Pameton (500mg paracetamol + 250mg dl-methionine). Indications were pain relief in patients at risk of suicide.

While I most certainly don't think dl-methionine makes gobbling down huge amounts of paracetamol a good life choice, the fact it was produced for decades and was responsible for no fatal overdoses shows it's utility.

 

[elgoucho9]

I forgot to mention that if one is employing a CWE of codeine phosphate from paracetamol, look after your liver and kidneys by taking a methionine supplement. For many years UK doctors could prescribe Pameton (500mg paracetamol + 250mg dl-methionine). Indications were pain relief in patients at risk of suicide.

While I most certainly don't think dl-methionine makes gobbling down huge amounts of paracetamol a good life choice, the fact it was produced for decades and was responsible for no fatal overdoses shows it's utility.

The more i've read reckon i am consuming a tonne of a paracetamol. Sadly cant order any codeine in because i have no ID atm which stops me accessing my bank even lol.

 

[Bleaney]

The more i've read reckon i am consuming a tonne of a paracetamol.

Same, I'm shocked that CWEs allow 70-80% of the paracetomol to get through.

Everyone seemed so sure that CWEs were such a great trick, but it seems that's not the case. At least not with the paracetomol formulations.

One study isn't the final word though, ideally there would be numerous studies all saying the same thing. And If I ever do any more CWEs I should read the whole paper, and not just the abstract.

I've just seen that ibuprofen + codeine meds are not cheap, around £12 as opposed to £2.50 or so for the paracetomol and 8mg codeine jobbies. With those kind of prices the ibuprofens aren't such a bargain, and if anyone can afford the extra £20 or so to get pure codeine, with no fucking about with CWEs required, then that would obviously be the better option.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I only read the abstract, which contained the salient findings, that basically any paracetomol CWEs and you're still going to be left with 70%-80% of the paracetomol.

Hang on - no time atm to do the reading, but is this definitely true?

And if so how come the common belief held for years (decades?) concerning this has been sooo wide of the mark?

I have no skin in the game really, I can't stand codeine. I do however know of some local youngsters who do this on the regular (and also plenty people who've done this to excess in the past and appear to have no liver issues)

 

[elgoucho9]

Same, I'm shocked that CWEs allow 70-80% of the paracetomol to get through.

Everyone seemed so sure that CWEs were such a great trick, but it seems that's not the case. At least not with the paracetomol formulations.

One study isn't the final word though, ideally there would be numerous studies all saying the same thing. And If I ever do any more CWEs I should read the whole paper, and not just the abstract.

I've just seen that ibuprofen + codeine meds are not cheap, around £12 as opposed to £2.50 or so for the paracetomol and 8mg codeine jobbies. With those kind of prices the ibuprofens aren't such a bargain, and if anyone can afford the extra £20 or so to get pure codeine, with no fucking about with CWEs required, then that would obviously be the better option.

Yeah its made the option of £30 for a box of 30mg codeine pills the wiser option really. Which isn't that great a deal at say 300mg a dose really to get high.

These ibruprofen formations. Are they common enough to just ask for in the chemist? Or are they aware they're better for CWE?

 

[Bleaney]

Hang on - no time atm to do the reading, but is this definitely true?

And if so how come the common belief held for years (decades?) concerning this has been sooo wide of the mark?

I have no skin in the game really, I can't stand codeine. I do however know of some local youngsters who do this on the regular (and also plenty people who've done this to excess in the past and appear to have no liver issues)

Direct quote from the abstract " It was found that CWE is able to
remove almost all ibuprofen (up to 97%), but significant amounts
of paracetamol (between 70% and 80% depending on the
formulation) and aspirin (nearly 60%) remain in the filtrate"

I also question the common belief regarding CWEs that has held for decades. What was it ever based on? Did anyone ever actually test their CWE water for levels of paracetomol?

But there does need to be a consenus of studies with the same results. One study could be an outlier for a variety of reasons.

 

[BadBoy377]

Evaporate, crystallise and weigh.

Who doesn't love a little practical science in their life?

I purposely get some paracetamol in there. Makes it easier to scrape n chop.

 

[Bleaney]

Yeah its made the option of £30 for a box of 30mg codeine pills the wiser option really. Which isn't that great a deal at say 300mg a dose really to get high.

These ibruprofen formations. Are they common enough to just ask for in the chemist? Or are they aware they're better for CWE?

I don't think CWEs are well known of at all outside of communites like this. Various people I spoke to in treatment services were really quite stunned about the whole process when I mentioned it.

Apparently they ibuprofen codeine tabs can be used for toothace when the lesser oain killers have failed. That should be all you need to say somrthing along those lines.

I agree that it is poor VFM though. As Zopiclone Bandit said something along the lines of 'why not just do heroin'. I can see his point but of course not everyone wants to be doing heroin.

It's not for everybody is it. It's a whole different league of drug imo.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I also question the common belief regarding CWEs that has held for decades. What was it ever based on? Did anyone ever actually test their CWE water for levels of paracetomol?

But there does need to be a consenus of studies with the same results. One study could be an outlier for a variety of reasons.

Can anyone answer that? @AlsoTapered maybe?

 

[elgoucho9]

I don't think CWEs are well known of at all outside of communites like this. Various people I spoke to in treatment services were really quite stunned about the whole process when I mentioned it.

Apparently they ibuprofen codeine tabs can be used for toothace when the lesser oain killers have failed. That should be all you need to say somrthing along those lines.

I agree that it is poor VFM though. As Zopiclone Bandit said something along the lines of 'why not just do heroin'. I can see his point but of course not everyone wants to be doing heroin.

It's not for everybody is it. It's a whole different league of drug imo.

Yeah i'm very much of the same opinion that opiates are opiates. Infact h is preferable to most. Just that also cos i've been in pain often i chose for the weaker option. If not i would likely run into serious withdrawals with the h etc its not fun.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Can anyone answer that? @AlsoTapered maybe?

Yes I did. You cannot remove all the paracetamol but the KEY thing to bear in mind is that the BNF (and other sources) state no more than 4g of paracetamol in any 24 hour period. It doesn't matter if that 4g is taken in one dose or spread over a day and night. I did ask a few medical professionals - I wouldn't state such an important fact unless I was satisfied it was the truth.

So if one uses less that 250mL of dH2O and carefully cool the dissolved co-codamol right down to -5°C then it's impossible for more than 2 grams of paracetamol to remain in solution.

Actually their will be less since the codeine phosphates higher solubility means it will lower the amount of paracetamol which can remain in solution.

Now I am in no way stating that even 2g of paracetamol is safe. I've seen liver failure caused by paracetamol and it doesn't look like a death that is free of suffering.

But whoever said 'cool until ice begins to form' is giving good advice. At that point you KNOW that you have crashed out the maximum amount of paracetamol you can.

I did weigh a sample and it all balanced. Using 250mL of dH2O and careful cooling I recovered 14 of the 16 grams of paracetamol. I then vacuum-distilled off the last 250mL and the remaining solids weighed 2.3 grams.

I cannot possibly state that 2 grams of paracetamol is safe for you, me or indeed anyone. I carried out the experiment because I was asked to test the theory by Lifeline Publications.

But trust me on the dl-methionine. I can state with absolute honesty that their is no conflict of interest. Whatever you decide to do, I won't profit from any choices you make.

NO medicine is risk-free.

Please check every fact I have asserted. I do my best but just because I assert a fact doesn't mean I'm not mistaken. I can only do my best.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

But trust me on the dl-methionine. I can state with absolute honesty that their is no conflict of interest. Whatever you decide to do, I won't profit from any choices you make.

NO medicine is risk-free.

Please check every fact I have asserted. I do my best but just because I assert a fact doesn't mean I'm not mistaken. I can only do my best.

I appreciate the level of response

I won't be deciding to do anything though rest assured, codeine is dysphoric for me, ugh. My query is due to concern for some of the local youth and I'll be sending a link to this thread to one of said group's brighter members, cheers

 

[AlsoTapered]

It must be said that @BadBoy377 is quite clearly the past master in the dark arts of the CWE. My approach was kind of informed by my education but clearly if he is able to extract all of the codeine using just 70mL of dH2O, that's going to have less than 500mg (1 tablet) of paracetamol in the mix.

I don't know how he does it but then I'm not as smart as him/ IMO he's the guy to PM to get the telescoped methodology. I didn't sit their and perform repeated extractions because it was my understanding that nobody went to those lengths. See, I'm wrong!

He's also a sound guy. I trust him.