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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

CWE. How many times/how much water do you put through per pack?

So I / we / someone clearly needs to read through more of the study than just the abstract. Just a 'highlight statement' from within the overview summary isn't going to cut it.

To see if they used the freezing water technique as this seems to be the critical factor?

Also dH2O / heavy water? How does a person who is not a chemist acquire this, and is it essential?

I've never heard of it in the context of CWEs before.

We are mostly a bunch of drug users though, and reading through scientific studies is hard work for anybody (with the exception of trained scientists. I did do a Bsc so many years ago and have some basic idea about interpreting studies and placing them in context, but I'm so out of practice, and I did not do a chemistry related degree. I'll probably be way out of my depth and in over my head)
 
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AlsoTapered said:
It must be said that @BadBoy377 is quite clearly the past master in the dark arts of the CWE. My approach was kind of informed by my education but clearly if he is able to extract all of the codeine using just 70mL of dH2O, that's going to have less than 500mg (1 tablet) of paracetamol in the mix.

I don't know how he does it but then I'm not as smart as him/ IMO he's the guy to PM to get the telescoped methodology. I didn't sit their and perform repeated extractions because it was my understanding that nobody went to those lengths. See, I'm wrong!

He's also a sound guy. I trust him.
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Ahhh Mr Tapered, you flatter me. I am always in awe of your depth and breadth of knowledge.

It's really not that complicated. Yes it takes a little time and has a few steps but nothing that doesn't sit in with an afternoon's housework or other... eh, science based hobbies! 😉

Happy to share with my friends if need be. PM away.
 
BadBoy377 said:
Ahhh Mr Tapered, you flatter me. I am always in awe of your depth and breadth of knowledge.

It's really not that complicated. Yes it takes a little time and has a few steps but nothing that doesn't sit in with an afternoon's housework or other... eh, science based hobbies! 😉

Happy to share with my friends if need be. PM away.
Click to expand...

Please write it up as you were taught in chemistry lessons at school (just materials, solvents, temperatures and times). I guess it would cost you a box of co-codamol to do but clearly you have telescoped the f*ck out of that extraction thus yours is the best method I know of. I only used dH2O because electrolytes can alter solubility... but if I'm honest it's unlikely to be significant. I just use it to remove a potential variable.

@charlz

Now opinion is divided. I maintain that if someone HAS been poisoned with paracetamol, cysteine is the most effective treatment but taken as a prophylactic dl-methionine MAY be better than N-acetylcysteine but to be clear, NAC still represents a very good way of protecting ones liver and kidneys. BOTH are way better than nothing.
 
AlsoTapered said:
Please write it up as you were taught in chemistry lessons at school (just materials, solvents, temperatures and times). I guess it would cost you a box of co-codamol to do but clearly you have telescoped the f*ck out of that extraction thus yours is the best method I know of. I only used dH2O because electrolytes can alter solubility... but if I'm honest it's unlikely to be significant. I just use it to remove a potential variable.

@charlz

Now opinion is divided. I maintain that if someone HAS been poisoned with paracetamol, cysteine is the most effective treatment but taken as a prophylactic dl-methionine MAY be better than N-acetylcysteine but to be clear, NAC still represents a very good way of protecting ones liver and kidneys. BOTH are way better than nothing.
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Of course, mate.

I'm due you a PM anyway. I've been meaning to catch up with you. Be in touch shortly.
 
As requested. My way...

BLUESTACK METHOD

Aims to allow optimum extraction with least harm to the liver.


Equipment

Kettle
Bowl
Dish towel
Measuring cylinder (or other)
Large jar and lid
Mortar and pestle (or other)
Teaspoon
Coffee filters
Thermometer
Small funnel (around same size as coffee filter)
Flask/glass (to collect filtrate)
Evaporation dish (A glass pie dish works well)
Stanley blades (or other)
Digital Scale

Method

1. Crush 64 tablets in mortar and pestle. Add to jar with 100ml water at 40-50c. Place lid on jar and shake well. Place in water bath of same temp, water to around same height as jar contents. Place folded dish towel over the top to keep heat in and prying eyes out.
2. Check water bath temp every 15 mins and top up with hot water to maintain 40-50c. Give jar a shake.
3. At one hour mark transfer jar to freezer and chill to 0-2c. Usually takes about an hour to 90 mins depending on freezer.
4. Setup coffee filter, funnel and receiving vessel. Pre wet filter with 5-10ml cold water before placing over receiver.
5. Gently pour the clearer layer of water into the filter and allow to filter through. Pour 20ml cold water into jar and shake, try and dump as much into the filter as possible. Then repeat with another 10ml cold water so almost all the sediment is in the filter. Allow to drain through.
6. Pour the filtrate into your evaporation dish and put aside to evaporate in a dark room or appropriate area clear of pets etc.
7. Scrape up crystals and weigh. Divide weight accordingly to work out dosages.

Takes a bit of time but if you’re doing it once every couple weeks or so it should provide you with decent and cheap pay dirt. I know a lot of people may not be bothered to do it in advance but it’s worth it for the sake of your health. Patience is a virtue. Evaporation can be speeded up by various methods such as blowing a fan across the surface. Avoid excessive heat.

I do a second wash of the residue with 30ml cold water. Carefully scoop out the filter and put back in jar. Shake and dump back into filter. Will take quite some time to filter through. I’m not in a rush. This should ensure I have extracted almost all the actives. Personally, I find a small amount of paracetamol is desirable in the end product to make it easier to scrape up and chop.

Depending on how you go you’ll get anywhere between 4-6g of powder.

I hope some of you find this useful. Remember no high is worth your health.

You can scale this up or down but two packs fits in the coffee filter nicely if you do it all right.


Would love to hear your feedback, folks. Also DM me me if you have any questions.

Stay safe.
 
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Bleaney said:
Fantastic post, a research link like this needed finding and posting years ago. Thank you for finding at posting one!! This is so good to know, I always wondered if ther was any scientific research into CWEs and now I know!

I only read the abstract, which contained the salient findings, that basically any paracetomol CWEs and you're still going to be left with 70%-80% of the paracetomol. Obviously that is extremely bad and many people have been labouring under a false sense of security all this time, thinking they were safe from liver toxicity when they were very far from it. Myself included, but fortunately I've never been into CWEs in a big way, maybe been through a handful of phases of trying them for a week or 2. Hopefully no long te damage has bneen done to me or anyone else.

I will definitely only be getting the codeine ibuprofen formulations from now on, with the CWEs apparently filtering out up to 94% of the ibuprofen in those formulations.

Nurofen or w/e they are called here I come I guess. No point spending loads on clearnet codeine when OTC Nurofen formulations are so much cheaper and just as safe to CWE by the looks of it.
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After having seen people talk about the incredibly low water solubility of ibuprofen on another forum, I was also thinking to go on with a cwe on nurofren plus. My only concern is that it uses a filter called TiO2, which apparently is banned in Europe and is a suspected carcinogen(at least from what this person was posting.)

Anyone here with a clue of how risky this filter is, and whether I should be concerned about consuming it?
 
Good info there.

Maybe best to err on side of caution. And practice careful filtration.

Has anyone else noticed the ibuprofen preparations no longer get clear out on standing?
 
Preytor said:
After having seen people talk about the incredibly low water solubility of ibuprofen on another forum, I was also thinking to go on with a cwe on nurofren plus. My only concern is that it uses a filter called TiO2, which apparently is banned in Europe and is a suspected carcinogen(at least from what this person was posting.)

Anyone here with a clue of how risky this filter is, and whether I should be concerned about consuming it?
Click to expand...

Titanium dioxide is totally insoluble in water - so their is no issue.
 
BadBoy377 said:
Any idea about the toxicity?
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I think it possibly poses a danger if the fine powder is inhaled. So in the factory it may pose a risk. Throwing it into water is just about the best way to ensure that their will be no fine powders. It's utterly insoluble in water so you just end up with a thick sludge which is discarded.

The slight misty stuff you see is just talc - No titanium dioxide ends up in solution, not even as a suspension.
 
BadBoy377 said:
If folk are gonna use it I want it to have a name
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Knock yourself out.

I've still not developed a medicine named after my wife and every day it's 'Well if Rita was worth Ritalin, why aren't I credited?' Thus the world turns.
 
BBC we?

Is done. Something simple with Blue in there cos we are blue light dot org.
 
If you got something better I'm open to it.

Or an acronym like Prior Research Is Absolutely Preferred Special Method...
 
Would an ultra fine mesh filter, say the most ultra fine of these be better than coffeee filter papers for catching unwanted paracetomol/ibuprofen/other fillers and allow the codeine through?

www.ebay.co.uk

80/100/120/200/400 Mesh Ultra-Fine Kitchen Nylon Mesh Strainer Filter Sieve*eh | eBay

Hanging Hole: The strainer has hanging hole design for easy storage. Material:PP,nylon filter. Due to the different monitor and light effect, the actual color of the item might be slightly different from the color which is showed on the pictures.
www.ebay.co.uk

I have my doubts about coffee filters, sometimes they seem to 'break' to some extent and allow big gushes through all at once, so something sturdier would prob be better.

In addition to following the usual steps including freezing temeperatures.

I have poppy pod tea making down to a fine art, and use a tea strainer for the first strain, and then one of the fine meshes for the second, which ends up creating a drink with zero sediments or 'bits' of floaters.

I have a long long way to go with CWEs, I'm not confident in the process or my abilities tbh. But if needed I can put the effort in to read and practice some of the excellent posts in this thread.
 
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