Criminologist refutes cannabis-related crime increase claims

pmoseman

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Criminologist refutes cannabis-related crime increase claims
University of Kent
04/08/13

"Criminologist Professor Alex Stevens has refuted media reports that reducing penalties for cannabis possession has led to increased drug use, crime and health problems. He said published data shows that these claims are unfounded and in fact highlight that cannabis use and crime have gone down since the 2004 declassification of cannabis to a class C substance.

He said: ‘Government policy on cannabis hit the headlines again recently, when both the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph ran articles on it claiming reductions in penalties for users of the drug have increased both crime and drug-related hospital admissions. If cannabis declassification did cause these effects, it would be an interesting and novel finding. Most researchers who have studied this issue have found little evidence of changes in use or related harms as a result of changes to penalties for users.

‘There are two national surveys that provide information about trends in cannabis use. The British Crime Survey (BCS) includes people aged 16 to 59. The Survey of Smoking, Drinking and Drug Use among Young People in England includes school pupils aged 11 to 15. Eleven per cent of 16 to 59 year-olds reported that they had used cannabis in the year before cannabis was moved down to class C in 2004. This figure was 13 per cent among 11 to 15 year-olds. By 2009, this figure had fallen to eight per cent in the older age group, and to nine per cent in the younger. It is very hard to square these reductions with a claim that the changes in 2004 caused cannabis use to rise. Over the same period, crime (as estimated by the BCS) fell by 17 per cent.

‘So what is the source of the claims that appeared in the Mail and the Telegraph? They are based on two papers presented to the Royal Economic Society, which remain unpublished. One of them uses rates of admission to hospital that were recorded as having been related to ‘harder’, Class A drugs. It links these rates to the period in 2001 to 2002 when the cannabis warning scheme was introduced in Lambeth, but nowhere else. It is reported to show that this caused a durable increase in hospital admissions amongst men of between 40 to 100 per cent.

‘This is quite a claim. To make us confident that it is accurate, the researchers would need to do several things. They would need to show that cannabis use actually rose, which they appear not to have done. They would then need to establish a causal link from cannabis use to hospital admissions for harder drugs. This would be possible if there were clear evidence of a ‘gateway effect’ that makes cannabis users move on to more dangerous substances. The problem is that, despite decades of searching, such clear evidence is still missing.

‘The researchers would additionally have to compare trends in Lambeth to those in other, similar places where the cannabis warning scheme was not in place. It would be very important to show that these places were not just any old borough, from leafy Richmond to suburban Havering. They would have to be inner city boroughs, with similar socio-economic problems and drug markets to Lambeth. And finally, the researchers would have to assume that nothing else was going on in the period after 2001 that would affect the data. They would have to ignore, for instance, the rise of the crack market in this decade. This caused havoc in the lives of many Lambeth drug users. The press reporting of this research gives no indication that these problems have been solved, and so we should have very little confidence in this reporting.

‘We are even more justified in disbelieving the claim of increased crime, given that the authors of this research have already distanced themselves from it. The research, by Nils Braakmann and Simon Jones, uses a national survey of self-reported offending in the years before and after the 2004 reclassification. The Mail claims that it shows increases in cannabis use and other crimes after penalties for cannabis were relaxed. In his response to the press reports, Dr Braakmann stated that his research ‘does not demonstrate an absolute increase in real-terms in cannabis consumption since declassification’. Rather, he said that it shows an increase amongst people who previously did not consume cannabis. Of course, cannabis use amongst people who had never used cannabis could only go one way: up. To prove that this increase was affected by the 2004 changes would be very difficult to do, and has so far not been done. If we do not know that declassification increased cannabis use, we can be no more confident that it increased crime.

‘So we are left with the best data we have on cannabis use and crime, from the two national surveys of adults and school children. They show that both cannabis use and crime - far from increasing after the 2004 declassification - actually went down.’

Alex Stevens is Professor of Criminal Justice within the University’s School of Social Policy, Sociology and Social Research."

This is what the United States should do. Place marijuana in schedule III.
And just to be clear, to people who decided to make me their enemy here, this is something I have been saying for years.
 
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http://www.kent.ac.uk/news/comment/stories/Criminologist-Refutes-Crime increase-Cannabis/2013
This is what the United States should do. Place marijuana in schedule III.
And just to be clear, to people who decided to make me their enemy here, this is something I have been saying for years.

Did you read the article?
It says that cannabis use, and cannabis crime, went down in the UK when it was declassified.
So, wouldn't it make sense that legalizing it would make use, and crime, go down as well?
In fact, that is what happened in Portugal, and in the Netherlands.
So why place it in schedule III? Why not just legalize it like alcohol and tobacco - two far more dangerous drugs?

Nb. Please check my signature for info on formatting for posting in DiTM in the future.
 
No. By that logic alcohol should be scheduled. No more double standards. Legalise it. Tax it. Educate the population.
Whose/What logic are we talking about here?

Did you read the article?
It says that cannabis use, and cannabis crime, went down in the UK when it was declassified.
So, wouldn't it make sense that legalizing it would make use, and crime, go down as well?
In fact, that is what happened in Portugal, and in the Netherlands.
So why place it in schedule III? Why not just legalize it like alcohol and tobacco - two far more dangerous drugs?

Nb. Please check my signature for info on formatting for posting in DiTM in the future.
They declassified it. Here in the states, that would be synonymous with descheduling it.
What is cannabis crime? It never says that. It also never said, "in the UK."
Portugal decriminalized, not legalized, lots of drugs. It might make sense in a model but that does not mean it will happen.

Amsterdam for tourists: What's legal?
By Frida Ghitis, Special to CNN
07/17/13
"You may be surprised to learn that recreational drugs are illegal in the Netherlands. Yes, even pot."

I don't understand your further suggestions. It seems highly improbable that time machines will ever get invented.

Marijuana is scheduled for its potential of abuse and being unacceptable medicining.
Now the latter seems to have changed in our top-of-the-line healthcare system.

Marijuana's Addictive Potential (for healthcare professionals)
California Society For Addiction Medicine
2011
"Any effort, whether through ignorance, denial or deception, to obscure the fact that marijuana has all the characteristics of an addictive drug does a grave disservice to the voting public."
 
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Did you read the article?
It says that cannabis use, and cannabis crime, went down in the UK when it was declassified.
So, wouldn't it make sense that legalizing it would make use, and crime, go down as well?
In fact, that is what happened in Portugal, and in the Netherlands.
So why place it in schedule III? Why not just legalize it like alcohol and tobacco - two far more dangerous drugs?

Nb. Please check my signature for info on formatting for posting in DiTM in the future.

Word up. Seems to me pos man didn't read the article lol

Without a doubt crime would go down because the fake crime that is created when they arrest an innocent harmless drug user trying to get high couldnt be recorded.
and there's no need to commit crimes for something easily accessible and endlessly plentiful.
 
Marijuana's Addictive Potential (for healthcare professionals)
California Society For Addiction Medicine
2011
"Any effort, whether through ignorance, denial or deception, to obscure the fact that marijuana has all the characteristics of an addictive drug does a grave disservice to the voting public."

lets think about some other promoted things that are addictive but positive in society.. work, shopping, exercise, sex, travel in fact.. better start banning life then.

PARTIAL LIST OF ADDICTIONS​

This partial list of addictions is provided as a reference for multiple addicts to allow them to more quickly realize the full extent of their dependencies.​


A - Addictions beginning with A
Alcohol
A common addiction which seems acceptable in social situations but is very progressive.
Also a sugar addiction as alcohol and sugar are similar in chemical makeup and synthesize in the body in similar ways.
A depressant type drug which leads to very complicated and repetitive depressions
Aspirin
Usually acceptable for small pains and fevers and taken in small dosages for heart health. Excesses are not good
Aerosol sniffing
Action - any activity that is risky and produces adrenalin
Adrenalin
The body self produces this 'fight or flight' drugs.
Is progressive needing greater risks to achieve the same feeling
Amphetamines
Anti Depressants
Addiction to prescribed medications is quite common
Because a series of educated professionals have been involved in the process of this addiction it is quite hard to stop.
Often depressions occur as a result of caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and/or sugar addictions. These root addictions need to be addressed to achieve good recovery.
Anti Depressants generally are designed to trigger the release of a self produced hormonal drug called serotonin which is the feel good drug produced by the body. The addiction to the anti depressant is actually an addiction to the self produced drug serotonin. Good recovery will include ways to naturally trigger the serotonin. One way of doing this is included in the 12 step way of recovery - particularly in the 12th step - by doing random acts of kindness.
Anime
Applause
Art
Getting high to produce better art is common. Also the lifestyle of an impoverished artist can be addictive.
Collecting art one can not afford may create adrenalin like compulsive shopping or gambling.
Arson

Asthma
A condition that is often worsened by the addiction to the rescue medication
Adrenalin is produced when the asthmatic fights for the next breath to the point where life threatening experiences become regular and no longer cause the body to produce the required adrenalin
Attention
Authority
Auto Racing

B - Addictions beginning with B
Bulimia
Purging excess calories from a binge by vomiting or over exercising
The actual addiction is to the eating part.. often sugar addiction
Barbiturates
A common drug addiction
Betting
Gamblers get a high from the adrenalin produced by their bodies while in action.
The larger the risk the greater the amount of adrenalin
Beastiality
Sex with animals to produce adrenalin and endorphins present in sex situations.
Carries a great deal of guilt and shame in today's religious society
Guilt and shame also produces addictive adrenalin directly in the body.
Body Building

C - Addictions beginning with C
Colas
Many soft drinks contain large amounts of addictive sugar and caffeine which create mood swings and may be diagnosed as polar or other manic behavioral disorders.
Sugar assimilates in the body the same way alcohol does and is a strong depressant.
Symptoms of sugar addiction are often heavy depressions and manic behavior.
Codependency
An adrenalin addiction caused by living in chaos
Codependents will often force crisis to get another supply of adrenalin
Codependents often hide their more socially acceptable addictions behind another persons addictions
All addicts are co dependents as well
Cocaine and Crack Cocaine
A common powerful and illegal street drug
High is produced from the drug and as well the illegal activity produces adrenalin
Caffeine
Produces a high when coffee, tea, soft drinks or chocolate are consumed
Usually socially acceptable but it is progressive and the body requires more drug to get same feeling over time
Usually combined with sugar for an even greater high
Like any high the resulting lows are present and cause severe depressions and mood swings
Coffee
Coin collecting
Usually a nice hobby but any hobby can become a compulsion in the hands of a multiple addict
Expensive and can produce a gamblers adrenalin high by overestimating the value of finds
Adrenalin is addictive and progressive so greater finds must be made.
Crime
Pure adrenalin in it's highest form when life or reputation is threatened
Addictive in that higher risks must be taken to achieve the same high.
Very difficult cycle to interrupt as punishments also produce life threatening experiences which keep the addiction going.
Coffee
Produces a caffeine high when consumed
Usually socially acceptable but it is progressive and the body requires more drug to get same feeling over time
Usually combined with sugar for an even greater high
Like any high the resulting lows are present and cause severe depressions and mood swings
Depressions associated with coffee addictions are often misdiagnosed and simply add heavy medications to the addicts life.
Withdrawal from caffeine is about four days of flue like symptoms which is relatively short if cut out completely and compared to years of taking anti depressants.
D - Addictions beginning with D
Drugs
Illegal Street drugs produce various highs as well as adrenalin highs associated with illegal activities
Prescription drugs for depression related disorders often medicate symptoms when the root causes may be simple sugar and caffeine addictions
Many over the counter drugs contain large amounts of sugar as well which add to depressions and manic behaviors
Some medical drugs are helpful of course.
Drunk Driving
An adrenalin high produced by the high risk illegal activity of drinking and driving.
Extremely high risk as life is usually at stake.
Diuretics
Eating disorder associated addiction
Produces adrenalin which gives a feeling of power over ones self


E - Addictions beginning with E
Ego
You name it!
Exercising (excessive)
Adrenalin and endorphins produced
Addictive and progressive in that more exertion must be accomplished to achieve the same high.
Endorphins
A healthy drug produced in the body and brain
Unhealthy sex, porn, crime, gambling and exercise addictions are symptoms of this basic drug addiction
F - Addictions beginning with F
Fantasizing (excessive) as opposed to dreaming,
Food addiction
Usually associated with the results of cravings caused by sugar addiction
Artificial sweeteners are appetite enhancers and cause huge cravings
Excessive food can act as a dull feelings
Fetishes
adrenalin addiction caused by self created adrenalin induced by the fear or fantasy
Fame
G - Addictions beginning with G
Gambling
Gamblers get a high from the adrenalin produced by their bodies while in action.
The larger the risk the greater the amount of adrenalin
H - Addictions beginning with H
Heroin and Opium
Husbands (relationships),
I - Addictions beginning with I
Isolation
Imagination
A good characteristic in most cases, but a luxury for an early recovering addict ... and a self destructive minefield for a practicing addict.
Living in "your head" is common amongst all addicts
One statistic is that addicts do approximately 80,000 words of self talk per day - so this addicted ' head ' is a very busy place
One saying in 12 step programs is that the head is like 'a dangerous neighborhood, do not go there alone'
The lack of reliable structure in today's daily life leaves a lot of room for imaginative research
Internet
Many addictions are available on the internet
Sex, Porn, gambling, relationships to name a few
Most porn and gambling activities produce adrenalin which is highly addictive.
J - Addictions beginning with J
Joking about serious matters
Hiding behind humor is usually a codependent family behavior
Job (workaholism)
An addiction to the controllable living space afforded by work
Provides the endorphins associated with being appreciated
Junk collecting

K - Addictions beginning with K
Kinky sex - see sex addiction below
Kleptomania
A form of adrenalin addiction where a high is produced by the illegal act of theft.
L - Addictions beginning with L
Lust
Laziness
Love
Lacquer thinners
Liquor
M - Addictions beginning with M
Masturbation
Masochism,
Meetings (as in hiding in meeting)
Men
Marriage
Muscle Relaxants
Marijuana
MSG
N - Addictions beginning with N
Nicotine
Narcotics
O - Addictions beginning with O
Over achieving
Over eating
Usually affiliated with sugar addiction
Over working
Over anything can become an addiction
Occult
P - Addictions beginning with P
Prayer (without action)
Pleasure
Phobia's
Blocked energy due to overwhelmed or unidentifiable feelings which produce 'fight or flight' adrenalin within the body.
Sometimes caused by unresolved grief
Abusive situations may also be a phobia breeding ground as family or others who should be trusted are not trustworthy leaving gaps in an individuals structure system.
Prescription Drugs
Addiction or dependence upon prescribed medications.
Commonly, though not always, is within the mood modifying drug family.
Giving up the long dependencies on prescribed drugs is best done with the help of medical professionals and sometimes requires a detoxification facility to ease unpredictable withdrawal symptoms
Pornography
People Pleasing
Perfectionism
Pain Killers
Q - Addictions beginning with Q
Quintessential Behavior (perfectionism)... sorry had to have aQ :)
R - Addictions beginning with R
Religion
It is wise to examine ones attitudes in all areas.
Relationships - Click here for relationships page
Racetrack betting and action
Risky behaviors
Sports or work related high risk ventures
Adrenalin addiction caused by receiving large doses of self produced adrenalin


S - Addictions beginning with S
Sedatives
Sex Addiction - Click here for sex inventory workbook
In abusive or negative forms sex can be an adrenalin addiction caused by receiving large amounts of self produced adrenalin
Adrenalin addiction is a progressive addiction where exciting events become usual and greater excitement must be reached to produce the same high.
This is dangerous when sex acts are used to produce the adrenalin as abusive situations may occur
Sexuality is often confusing and care must be taken to not block sexual energy, which is necessary to achieve a positive energy flow through the body.
Sadism
Adrenalin addiction caused receiving self produced adrenalin in a slave /master situation
Common in codependent relationships
Satanism
Adrenalin addiction caused by receiving large doses of self produced adrenalin leading up to and during highly charged rituals or ceremonies
In extreme cases where sacrificial ceremonies occur the adrenalin is increased by ingesting still more highly concentrated adrenalin found in blood of freshly sacrificed animal.
The combined high is often thought to be spiritual when it is actually double dosing on adrenalin
Smoking
Addiction to nicotine and other addictive substances present in tobacco, marijuana, cocaine, opium and other sources
The smoked substances also sometimes include other hidden addictive substances to make them an even larger rush and a more marketable product.
Shopping
Serotonin - the self produced drug of choice for manic depression and bipolar folks
SELF - ego
Self Help Books, programs
Self Mutilation
Spotlights (see fame)
Sniffing Solvents
Sleeping
Sleeping Pills
Shock Treatments
Speed
Steroids

T - Addictions beginning with T
Torturing - emotionally or physically - Power addiction
Television
Therapy - codependency as opposed to getting on with life.
Thinners
THC
Thrills
Tobacco
Tramadol
Tranquilizers
Travel
Trichotillomania - Pulling out own hair compulsively.

U - Addictions beginning with U
Ultram - Narcotic Like Pain Reliever aka Tramadol
Underachieving

V - Addictions beginning with V
Valium
Vandalism
Vicodin - watch some old shows of the series "House!"
Video
Video Games
Violence
Voodoo
Vomiting - see Bulimia
Voyeurism

W - Addictions beginning with W
Wealth
Weed
Weightlifting
Women
Work
Wheat Flour - Carbohydrates

X - Addictions beginning with X
X-box - see Gaming
XXX Movies and Magazines

Y - Addictions beginning with Y
Young Sex

Z - Addictions beginning with Z
Zoo sex (sex with animals)
 
Word up. Seems to me pos man didn't read the article lol

Without a doubt crime would go down because the fake crime that is created when they arrest an innocent harmless drug user trying to get high couldnt be recorded.
and there's no need to commit crimes for something easily accessible and endlessly plentiful.
Because the article does not state that. Are you thinking that 17% of crimes were people arrested for marijuana? The legality of marijuana remained unchanged, sentences and fines decreased.
Why would that decrease crime at all?

neversickanymore said:
lets think about some other promoted things that are addictive but positive in society.. work, shopping, exercise, sex, travel in fact.. better start banning life then.

PARTIAL LIST OF ADDICTIONS
....
"Drug addiction is the compulsive use of a substance, despite its negative or dangerous effects.

A person may have a physical dependence on a substance without having an addiction." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001522.htm
 
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A person may have a physical dependence on a substance without having an addiction.
Well aware of this and promote this idea in many of the threads I have created and respond to;) You can either click on the Addiction Guide in my signature right here Addiction Guide. In this is a much better definition of addiction as well as an explanation of the difference between addiction and physical dependence. Any substance or activity that produces a dopamine release can cause addiction and if a person becomes addicted to these they will continue to compulsively perform of take the substance despite negative or dangerous effects. The Brain and Addiction (under construction). Also people can have an addiction with out a physical dependence.

Also people choose continue a physical dependence despite dangerous or negative consequences so your definition needs to be amended.

Here is an interesting discussion on this topic.. Do benzodiazepines cause addiction as well as physical dependence?
 
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I did forgeg quotation marks and to source the definition of addiction. Did not pull that out of memory or anything.
The definiton I gave also goes on to explain, giving examples, that addiction also does not imply dependence.
This is an excerpt from another portion of Marijuana's Addictive Potential, "Rates of cannabis dependence are estimated at 20% to 30% among those who have used at least five times". http://www.csam-asam.org/marijuanas-addictive-potential-healthcare-professionals
I thought this was all a bit redundant, but none of it was overlooked.
 
Sorry this is probably irrelevant but that "used five times " quote in the last post kinda winds me up a bit. Currently sitting here with my gf, both life long cannabis smokers, my life being 49 years and hers a few years longer. Both hold down jobs, live in a paid for home (no mortgage) and have raised a successful family. After decades of non stop smoking we went travelling around the world for a year and gave up cannabis for at least 120 days of that time with no resulting problems.

And I don't think we're freaks of nature. Too many people are influenced by the label of addiction and sometimes foreknowledge of supposed symptoms become a fait accomplai/ self-fulfilling prophecy.

I repeat, we are not freaks of nature. When you say cannabis is addictive I think you should qualify that with "but addiction (and dependence) is not inevitable".

Let's aim for the truth at least yes?
 
This is an excerpt from another portion of Marijuana's Addictive Potential, "Rates of cannabis dependence are estimated at 20% to 30% among those who have used at least five times". http://www.csam-asam.org/marijuanas-addictive-potential-healthcare-professionals

I will refute this nonsense with other studies later.. 20-30 percent after five times of use.. LOL

"Researchers also found that pot has a nine percent addiction rate" >source<

I will back up the fact the the ASAM claim us highly disputable if not just utter hogwash with better evidence latter I just dont have the time right now to waste debunking propaganda.

also a cannabis addiction wont likely ruin your life, but a cannabis conviction could seriously hamper it.. so I guess you are a firm believer in "locking someone up and ruining their lives, in the name of saving their Lives". this seems like a great idea since the addiction rate is really low and the consequences of a possible addiction would have to be a really severe case to ever impact ones life as negatively as being locked up and branded with a record because of the current legal laws in some places..

why should the other ninety percent of people be prevented from being able to use because ten percent develop an non lethal addiction that has consequences that even I, an addict, tend to chuckle at.

Personally I think we should ban religion as the addiction rate to this is likely much higher and as more people have found an untimely death do to religious addicts than any other thing on the planet why dont we start with this and leave things like almost harmless grass for later.

Filtered tap water, lean bland food, and hard work, and no travel, early to bed and even earlier to rise.. for me pmoseman.. this way I know I will have a clear head and a productive safe long boring mostly wasted life. Life isn't about how long, safe, and trouble free you can make it.

20-30% after five uses.. I know the name ASAM is supposed to make this legit.. but really do these "trusted" people really think the world is going to continue to fall for this utter nonsense?

Aso even they are against it being a criminal matter;) "and while we strongly support the use of treatment for substance abuse rather than incarceration."
 
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Sorry this is probably irrelevant but that "used five times " quote in the last post kinda winds me up a bit. Currently sitting here with my gf, both life long cannabis smokers, my life being 49 years and hers a few years longer. Both hold down jobs, live in a paid for home (no mortgage) and have raised a successful family. After decades of non stop smoking we went travelling around the world for a year and gave up cannabis for at least 120 days of that time with no resulting problems.

And I don't think we're freaks of nature. Too many people are influenced by the label of addiction and sometimes foreknowledge of supposed symptoms become a fait accomplai/ self-fulfilling prophecy.

I repeat, we are not freaks of nature. When you say cannabis is addictive I think you should qualify that with "but addiction (and dependence) is not inevitable".

Let's aim for the truth at least yes?
I think you mean label of dependent substance abusers. When it says 20 to 30 percent, isn't that the same as saying most people don't? I mean 80% is a rather substantial portion of people!
 
"According to a federal Institute of Medicine study in 1999, fewer than 10 percent of those who try marijuana ever meet the clinical criteria for dependence - >source<

Copy of the study is here>>>> http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_medical_iom_report.pdf

I think the entire way of criminally addressing drug use and its problems is unjust and horrible and do very little to prevent drug use and even less to solve problems associated with drug use. . I think tagging drug users and addicts with criminal records defines counter productive and does not lead to recovery for the person and in fact promotes relapse in drugs as well as promotes the likelihood real criminal behavior by the drug user. I feel that giving someone a record that is a barrier to decent employment actually feeds the drug problem as a person is much more likely to turn to dealing drugs as a means of income when their employment and wage opportunities are hampered with a conviction record.

I dont feel that the schedule of a drug has that big of an impact on its level of use. I feel that people base more of their descion on what they know about the dangers of specific drugs. This is backed up by the fact that marijuana is scheduled in the same class as meth, coke, and herion.. but is tried and used by such a larger percentage of people.

"The Netherlands’s system of quasi-legal retail marijuana sales – steadily evolving since 1976 – may have modestly increased the number of marijuana users, but does not seem to have intensified their use of marijuana or the likelihood that they will move on to harder drugs, according to a University of California, Berkeley, study just published in the journal Addiction."
>source<

I feel the biggest creators, promoters, and beneficiaries of addiction are the legal business men a scientists of big pharma and the medical professionals.
 
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"...of those who had tried marijuana at least once, about 9 percent eventually fit a diagnosis of cannabis dependence. The corresponding figure for alcohol was 15 percent; for cocaine, 17 percent; for heroin, 23 percent; and for nicotine, 32 percent."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-pot/?page=1
Note that is one study, so those numbers are not set in stone, but the order likely is.
....
So having a criminal record actually increases the probability of dealing drugs.
So then people with non-drug related criminal records are more likely to deal drugs than those without criminal records?
....
So who stated the rumour that the higher schedule of marijuana has to do with its level of danger? THC is a level III. Marijuana is schedule 1 because it has no medical value and a moderate level of dependency.
....
I have seen Portugal's data and that also shows that lowering criminal penalties does somewhat increase use as well. I think, not only there but also in neighbouring countries. That is my own thought but doesn't that prove punishment lowers crime? Albeit it makes drug use more problematic, but it does prevent it. Well, not in the youth. Prison is one solution. We are aware of better solutions than prison, not just for marijuana but for all crimes.
I totally agree getting these people out of the prison system may be a good option.
....
Scheduling itself makes sense. It regulates the people you listed, medical and business, preventing them from giving us things we don't need, in order for them to make money.
I think the next logical step in the game is descheduling marijuana. Let us study the effects of both the drug and the crime.
 
"...of those who had tried marijuana at least once, about 9 percent eventually fit a diagnosis of cannabis dependence. The corresponding figure for alcohol was 15 percent; for cocaine, 17 percent; for heroin, 23 percent; and for nicotine, 32 percent."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-pot/?page=1
Note that is one study, so those numbers are not set in stone, but the order likely is.

Precluding people that only smoked it once or less than five time seems like a really good way of making it sound more addictive than it is... I bet we could get up to 100% if we precluded enough people.. kinda like stacking the deck isn't it?

I feel that people base more of their descion on what they know about the dangers of specific drugs. .
if you were referring to this in point three.. Incase I was unclear I was referring to the people who choose to/not to use drugs basing their own free thought and makeing their descion based on what they think the dangers of the drug are. I was not saying the scheduling was based on perceived danger.
..........
As far as the criminal record thing increasing the likely hood of people dealing drugs.. I would say absolutely.. if you want to know what I mean.. some day go around and apply for jobs but put on your application that you have a drug felony.. then imagine yourself living off the wages from the jobs you are offered.. combine that with and untreated addiction and no money, thanks to a stint in jail and the way the current system does not really bother to put much into treatment.. and I think you have almost the perfect recipe for a drug dealer.


"The possession and use of any kind of drug was decriminalised in Portugal eight years ago, despite concerns drug use would increase. Instead, usage and the number of drug-related deaths have decreased, and the number of people seeking treatment has risen. Mark Easton reports from Lisbon." we seem to have conflict here between what you claim and what the BBC claims? >source<



I think the next logical step in the game is descheduling marijuana. Let us study the effects of both the drug and the crime.

I agree
 
Drug use only increased temporarily then dropped to historic lows in countries that decriminalized.
 
I think the information, about 5 joints, adds another point of data and can help give it shape and be a bit of fun.
We can extrapulate the trend linearly, and then by joint 22 we see that 100% of all users would be addicted.
Plus, a bit more seriously, "Smoking 5 joints doubles your risk of marijuana dependency.", this is a catchy slogan. I think it suggests a moderate limit to your marijuana habit. Also, isn't this like 12 bowls? I would think bowl addiction would be different, but they are assuming you smoke by yourself, so does sharing with a friend make it like 24 bowls? Isn't that what it's all about? Smoking 24 bowls.
....
In regards to the criminal record, I meant *very* specifically those without drug records. Because if all it does is turn drug users/dealers into drug dealers... well so what. But, if it turns "ordinary" boys and girls into super-villains, well that clenches it!
....
The BBC likely was saying, "In comparison to other countries Portugal's drug use has not increased, much", but that is a bit fuzzy, to me. Looking at straight numbers, the amount of illicit-drug-users has increased for all drugs in Portugal, steadily I believe, since 2001 (7.8% to 12%). And I do mean all, well except for tranqs and sedatives. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/1219#sthash.mqwKzrIc.dpbs
As for treatment, in 2000 Portugal also introduced a drug treatment program. This program coupled with decriminalization has been quite succesful in preventing problems associated with drugs. No! I do not think the problems with drugs stem directly from prison, but from the social network of support. I do not want to throw too many numbers around, but I can say there are quite a lot more people in the United States getting imprisoned for marijuana than there are addicts (those with a dependency) attempting treatment, but I do not point the finger at prisons. That could shift the other way without decriminalization. I do not think people are supported by the culture to seek treatment, Portugal did something to get people into treatment that brought them together on the issue. And then this happened!
"In a further blow, the funding of risk reduction projects from the national programme for HIV/Aids - projects closely linked to drug-related work - has been slashed to 1.5 million euros (1.1 million pounds) from 9 million euros a year earlier, with no guarantees that existing projects will continue, she said." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/13/uk-portugal-drugs-idUKBRE87C0MY20120813
Don't get me wrong. I am not really laughing about this. I hope it simply means the program requires less money to succeed.
Descheduling might be able to change public opinion. Cost? $0. Legalizing it would probably grind too many gears, I think.
Our country is polarized as shit.
For my money, what decriminalization has done in Portugal is taken all attractiveness out of targeting youth. This is one thing among many other positives. From what I gather this was a widely accepted compromise. That is important.
So the upside is that things have changed for the better among the youth, they report being more concerned about starting drugs and we see quite a drop in new users. I think given the research on the exacerbated risk for youth, this is a tremendous success. Unfortunately, I think it is directly related to increasing use among adults, who have like, jobs (more productive for dealers than the kids.) Well that is my very morbid prediction. Kids are gullible and dealers will eventually target them again. It will all go back to shit there, I said it. Of course, I wish everything works out amazingly well. Of course!
It is also important to note that the reason Portugal was awash with drugs, in 2000, is that it is a notorious entry point for smugglers. So it is not a surprise, because of that, to see increases in Portugal leading to, instead of simply following, increases in nearby countries, like Spain... so that is what is shaping my opinion right now (no real source, just accumulated from everything I read). But I have work to do proving that. I know that these things happen without any clear cause. Just look at Sweden since 2010, (earlier link) they are getting hammered with drugs. Why?
I have to admit, with Sweden, it totally seems like enforcement comes along when use is at an all time low, from people who are trying to keep it that way. So it is tremendously hard to boast about its effectiveness, it is a brute-strength strategy. Portugal has the same goal of getting rid of drugs as the US.
....
My goal here is really not to shit on your dreams or anything. But this is definitely a shit parade. I also have had about 4 hours of sleep the past two days. Sorry.
Drug use only increased temporarily then dropped to historic lows in countries that decriminalized.
Did it now?
 
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That pattern I mentioned may have been regarding cannabis use in the Netherlands among locals but problematic drug use/infections did indeed drop in Portugal/Czech Republic after the decriminalization. More admitted users after descheduling is not necessarily a problem, they are just marginalized less so they admit.
 
"Between 2001 and 2007, despite the increase in lifetime prevalence’s (of any illicit drug from 8% to 12%) it was verified a stability in the prevalence of use of any drug in the last month (2,5% in 2001 and 2007) and a decrease in continuity rates of use (of any drug passed from 44% to 31%)". from the source you stated.. so 4% more people tried a drug over their life, but there was a 13% percent decrease in continuous use.. I am not a social scientist so if someone can explain to me what " continuity rates of use" is that would be great.
 
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