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Creationism vs Evolution

methamaniac said:
The bible answers all thess questions actually,
if you dont believe in God because you think he isnt just, allow me to point out he would still exist.
And maybe you just dont know the whole story.
Imo he isnt asking a whole lot out of us to be honest. It can seem impossible but its really not.
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It doesn't.. maybe some.. but that doesn't change the whole idiocy surrounding it.. if you wanted your children to behave in a certain way, would you trust a stranger to give them a book outlining it or would yu tell them directly. would you tell only one child and then expect him to pass the message on to the rest of the family and friends and strangers and everyone? would you leave in your written instructions to kill fortunetellers, false prophets, witches and anyone who strikes their father while teaching that women are lesser than men and that its ok to sell your daughter for 50 pieces of silver as a slave? would you leave in that the punishment for rape is to marry the victim and rapist and pay the father 50 pieces of silver?
 
Would you order the mass murder of thousands of people and the enslavement of any girl over the age of 12 and still a virgin as spoils of war? would you kill every person, every man, woman and child, every animal bar two of each animal and a family? or would you just chill everyone out?

Would you punish every single person with original sin - potentially condemning babies to eternal torture, because one of your children ate an apple that you knew he would?
 
You noticed I didnt use perfect.
You can make claims like that but cant back them up. How do you know perfect exists and isnt an irrarional idea/question to ask.
Or maybe somehow sin and fall of man caused
the unravelling what we see today.
2 ND Law of thermo kinda supports this.
Everything has to "steal" energy to survive and make most of what its got.
You can dream up a positive answer for every negative statement you can make.
A negative statement implies a positive statement exits
 
Another reason to hate Jesus!!!

Rikolasnice said:
I'm pretty sure perfect teeth would not ware, would not brake and would not rot and fall out.
Click to expand...

I thought my poor old teeth were my fault, but I see now it ain't! Praise god ;)

Seriously though, I cannot get behind this thread. I believe in pushing people to back up their beliefs, but this seems to tailored and personalised to one particular poster; I'm not sure why you didn't do this via PM. Too combative IMO, and doomed from the start....:\
 
methamaniac said:
You noticed I didnt use perfect.
You can make claims like that but cant back them up. How do you know perfect exists and isnt an irrarional idea/question to ask.
Or maybe somehow sin and fall of man caused
the unravelling what we see today.
2 ND Law of thermo kinda supports this.
Everything has to "steal" energy to survive and make most of what its got.
You can dream up a positive answer for every negative statement you can make.
A negative statement implies a positive statement exits
Click to expand...

No creationists do.. you're not understanding what I'm saying..

I've got a creationist leaflet in front of me here.. talking about whales fins, geckos feets, butterflies navigation, seagulls legs etc etc.. They're cherry picking information to give the impression life is so perfectly designed.. every single species could be designed better.. here's one.. better vision, stronger, smarter, whatever.. and then there are the flaws.. we're fragile.. a nasty fall, a bump on the head, a nasty cut.. these are not things you would find on the creations of an omnipotent man but ignoring that.. it makes ALL creationist argument using this method (perfectly adapted) BUNK.

Creationists cling on to the notion that animals are so well designed (forget perfect) that they would have had to have been designed.. but there are better designs for every single one.. there are many flaws with every single one.. so every argument a creationist uses involving the amazing design of a part of an animal its bunk because there are many flaws with it.. see what im saying?
 
Let me ask you one thing.
Can you make what you consider a perfect human?
Can you make anything perfect?
Can you even get a spark of life off the ground.
You may want to think about this.
Designed creations need a designer perfect or not.
You donf have to believe in (my)God,
but not to see this willfully blind imo.
I will point out (my)God said this would be case. Creation over Creator.
If you havnt noticed evolution cant be proved one way or other. I think this is for a reason.
It should be easy as hell to prove if true.
I mean as far as one species into another.
Beneficial mutations should be the norm. Not the exception. Trans fosss should be every dam where. Or at least humans and ape ancestor.
Why not one concrete man ape fossil.
They should be there. They really should.
Ps
God doesnt command rape.
I will let you figure out why you had to pay for your sin of rape
 
methamaniac said:
You noticed I didnt use perfect.
You can make claims like that but cant back them up. How do you know perfect exists and isnt an irrarional idea/question to ask.
Or maybe somehow sin and fall of man caused
the unravelling what we see today.
2 ND Law of thermo kinda supports this.
Everything has to "steal" energy to survive and make most of what its got.
You can dream up a positive answer for every negative statement you can make.
A negative statement implies a positive statement exits
Click to expand...

No creationists do.. you're not understanding what I'm saying..

I've got a creationist leaflet in front of me here.. talking about whales fins, geckos feets, butterflies navigation, seagulls legs etc etc.. They're cherry picking information to give the impression life is so perfectly designed.. every single species could be designed better.. here's one.. better vision, stronger, smarter, whatever.. and then there are the flaws.. we're fragile.. a nasty fall, a bump on the head, a nasty cut.. these are not things you would find on the creations of an omnipotent man but ignoring that.. it makes ALL creationist argument using this method (perfectly adapted) BUNK.

Creationists cling on to the notion that animals are so well designed (forget perfect) that they would have had to have been designed.. but there are better designs for every single one.. there are many flaws with every single one.. so every argument a creationist uses involving the amazing design of a part of an animal its bunk because there are many flaws with it.. see what im saying?

That has nothing to do with 2nd law of thermodynamis.

Why did God create Adam and Eve to eat the apple?

Why can't he accept their sin? Why did he decide that to be a sin?
 
How do you know God created them to eat an apple?
Why cant he accept their sin?
Maybe it opposes his nature.
Maybe his nature is be in homeostasis.
Maybe sin unbalances this and must be balanced like a scale.
There could really be infinite(not literally) answers that could work.
 
Imagine.. we are exactly like us yeah.. except we don't need to breath, eat, drink, piss, shit.. we have no need for blood or organs.. we can not be cut and we can not brake

Evolution has been proven.
One species to another? Remember the finche?
There are hundreds, thousands of transitional fossils.. and no their shouldnt.. how many of the worlds living things do you think managed to fossilize?
We are apes.. that has nothing to do with evolution but technically we are an ape.. but yeah sure.. neanderthal? look it up we've got a pretty good collection of trainsitional fossils..

God doesn't command rape?

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. Judges 21:10-24

...

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. Numbers 31:7-18 NLT

.....

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.


....

(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]


..

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

...


They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)


...


When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


..

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Click to expand...

You sure about that?
 
25But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.26Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor,27for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed,there was no one to rescue her
Yep
 
So that one verse magically negates the fact those 8 verses in my quote imply god is ordering the rape of women.

Maybe the rules are different if you rape with out the order.

25But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.
Click to expand...

Well of course that's wrong! That bitch is a mans property now!

Seriously.. is that the best you've got? God orders the rape of women. End of.
 
The Evolution of Teeth: It's Impossible: http://youtu.be/tPC0Ngki-As

Ok,
I answered a bunch your questions now how bout one or two of mine since this is a VS thread.
How did our teeth evolve?
This should be fun

1.You may concede you have no idea and u take it on faith mutation and blind chance did it and save credibility
2. Answer and remove the credibility you thought you had.
3. Just not answer.
Sometimes not commenting is the best comment
cheers
 
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methamaniac said:
Again I cant answer on what is or isnt perfect.
I can answer question like, "can got make a rock so big he cant lift it"? logically No because to best of my knowledge you cant logically add to infinity.
So he couldnt make an rock bigger than himself in the first place. There in lies the fallacy.
But then again,
like "perfect" defintion--I dont know what I dont know. I dont everything that "infinity" includes. So to speculate its limits would be an assumption. I would have to actually be God to answer questions on what does or what doesnt make something perfect.
Click to expand...

humans are NOT perfect because some of them fail to operate properly. Some of the parts fail prematurely, some of them dont operate correctly. Some of them come off the factory line with missing and bent parts, how does that happen? We would all be immune to diseases, viruses, which god created btw, he did create everything that exists, right?
I saw a car wreck the other day,the people were saved it was a MIRACLE! To bad god isnt faster, if he was he could have gotten there a little sooner and stop the wreck from happening all-together. Of course, if he did that, he wouldnt be able to perform his MIRACLE!!
The people in the other car died though, I guess he can only do one car per wreck......
 
The problem is that creationists have a vested interest in maintaining their beliefs. They think that the 'fact' of evolution somehow excludes the existence of god, simultaneously removing both God's and their own power base. It appears that they do not (or can not) believe in this, because it would ultimately require them to alter many of their subsequent beliefs and this may seem frightening. So when a video about teeth is posted, with a clear bias for creationism and against evolution, first and foremost, I hear that particular subset of fears being symbolically articulated. I don't hear it as individuals who are promoting truth, for truth's sake, but I do hear individuals promoting untruth for God's sake. Given their vested interest and need to maintain this creation-spawned philosophy, I hear people desperately trying to deny a multitude of facts because they are afraid that any concession will require them to embrace one vast, uncomfortable truth.

The problem then is that scientists who research evolution have no such vast, vested interest in promoting their views; at least, nothing comparable with altering ones entire conception of the universe and one's place in it. Given this, I almost understand why people, in the face of vast overwhelming evidence, still argue against this. Its just fear.

Methmaniac, can you possibly see this? Do you question your beliefs, or your motivations? If evolution is the real deal, do you think this eliminates god in total? Given the vastness of what you have previously been unable to explain (you have responded to less then 10% of my questions at least), I don't really think you'll be capable of honestly answering these questions, but can you concede that a Christian, when presented with evidence that may (or may not) cast doubt on the mightiness of God, may choose to deny this truth because the alternative is simply too dramatic and frightening? Can you see that a scientist has NONE of these same reasons, on nothing like a similar scale, to perpetuate untruth?

Please answer friend :)

edit: on the subject of teeth, I would imagine that intense, hyper-focused lasers would have been much "better" then enamelled bone... And yet, what do we got? CHOMP CHOMP. Fucking ZAP ZAP would be MUCH better
 
You guys are forgetting the Aliens theory. You can't have the Evo vs creation argument without Aliens now. The alien theory has the most tangible facts to support the theory, it answers the questions that evolution cant, and has an explanation thats at least believable, logical and makes the most sense that covers the whole god thing. The fossil records of humanoids are just upgraded versions from the previous version and your god is an alien :)
 
^
I would honestly go with aliens before I would accept the heavy fog of b.s. that I have to remain in to belief in evolution of species from spontaneous formation of non organic matter
thats writes a 4 bit code thats gets mind blowingly more complex as it rolls along to make something that can use its intelligence to see it is full of shiznit.
Willow, what you are not even close to getting why I dont except evolution. And I could take same argument and argue the reverse and ask you why you are scared to let theory go if NOT true.
I have stated I used to blindly follow it until I began to really consider the evidence. I believed in God while I believed in evolution. It actually makes believing it evo easier because of the impossibility of randomess as process.
It is absurd to think
the suns radiation causes new complex parts to randomly form. You know that is how evolution works right. And more absurd is to think information can form itself AND ( and a big f-ingAND) decide to make the parts to reproduce itself. DO U NOT SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH THIS? IF not you have fully lost you're ability to think critically and anything else I say is pointless.
As for other creationist? well, I only speak for myself. I cant possibly know what others think,
and besides it is irrelevant to how teeth evolved.
I have answered you pretty please answer me.
I digress,
Notice how nobody can fathom how teeth evolved via blind chance but have no problem telling me to accept the evidence for it that is not there.
ok,ancient aliens is probably best honest answer I will get on how teeth formed.
but it begs question of who made the ET's,
But at least it can be argued plausible.
Because you dont get intelligence from non intelligence. One must come before the other.
 
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willow11 said:
The problem then is that scientists who research evolution have no such vast, vested
Click to expand...

Give me a freaking break,
And an honest one while at it.
What the hell you think happens when a scientist
says he doesn't buy theory of evo?
I'll tell you, they lose their job. They lose their grants. They lose their prestige.
Come on be honest if you are a truth seeker.
And admitt like scientist you have no idea how our teeth could have formed.
My video is not some "creationist" trick.
Its straight forward
ps. Guy in video isnt religious in anyway
Do your research before making assumptions
You may learn something
 
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There are other factors beside evolution that can shape the course of a species.

Sometimes there are external forces. Look at how we, as humans, have altered the course of the dog over the past 200 years with specialized breeding.

I'm not saying there was necessarily some powerful force breeding different life forms on earth over the past 3 billion + years, but the system of DNA and reproduction is so complex that to have arrived completely without some sort of outside influence is unlikely. Meaning there could have been purposely placed instructions in the DNA of early life that encouraged traits that were unlikely to occur naturally.

And It's possible, and probable, there are many facets of how organisms evolve over millions of years we don't understand.
 
^
Were getting more honest.
Im actually surprised (no offense, nothing at all personal, I appreciate your honest post)
I look forward to the answers to questions the author of video posed.
Hypotheses on how blind chance knows to form
an extra set of complex teeth we wont need until we loose our first set of complex teeth will get bonus points.
 
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