Opioids Could tolerance reduction be dangerous in the long run

[starfarer]

As many Bluelighters are aware i've been using NLTX with much success to keep my tolerance to opiates down. My concern however is that opiate tolerance may be there to help maintain the opiate system.
Constant excitation a la buprenorphine tends to induce tolerance and this (Im making an unqualified assessment) may be a way of maintaining the opiate system. By manipulating this could one potentially permanently desensitise their opiate system in the long term leading to a ravaged endorphin system?
Scary stuff, hoping our best minds can put my mind at ease

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What exactly do you mean?

Reducing your opiate tolerance isn't dangerous, it's using full agonist opiates in excess which is dangerous.

When you have a readily available opiate tolerance, opiates alone overdosing you is somewhat rare/unheard of.

It's only when you start mixing CNS downers, or using a huge dosage of a full agonist opiate without an opiate tolerance, where you'll have a fatal overdose.

Lowering your tolerance is not dangerous in itself.

Some of us may go on a long run, and then take 2-3 days off, and then resume our normal dosage. This can be dangerous as your tolerance can drop a lot in such a time span, and then environmental tolerance can also take into effect - and this can lead to an overdose. It's more common in people who are greatly escalating their dosage, but it even happened to me once (obviously a non-life threatening overdosage).

 

[TheLostBoys]

What exactly do you mean?

Reducing your opiate tolerance isn't dangerous, it's using full agonist opiates in excess which is dangerous.

When you have a readily available opiate tolerance, opiates alone overdosing you is somewhat rare/unheard of.

It's only when you start mixing CNS downers, or using a huge dosage of a full agonist opiate without an opiate tolerance, where you'll have a fatal overdose.

Lowering your tolerance is not dangerous in itself.

Some of us may go on a long run, and then take 2-3 days off, and then resume our normal dosage. This can be dangerous as your tolerance can drop a lot in such a time span, and then environmental tolerance can also take into effect - and this can lead to an overdose. It's more common in people who are greatly escalating their dosage, but it even happened to me once (obviously a non-life threatening overdosage).

What do you mean by environmental tolerance? Are you saying, when you change scenery, the opiate you are taking could make you higher than your usual spot of where you get high?

 

[burn out]

Yes that is what Cap'n Heroin is saying. However I think he is missing the point of this thread, which was to ask if using agents to lower tolerance can damage the opioid system.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

What do you mean by environmental tolerance? Are you saying, when you change scenery, the opiate you are taking could make you higher than your usual spot of where you get high?

I think what he's talking about is environmental conditioning, if you're in the usual spot where you get high, your body is used to being high there, and there is a degree of conditioned "tolerance".

However, if you take a break and then get high in a different place, your body has not been conditioned to having drugs in it at that place, and the "tolerance" is lower as a result.

At least that's how I understand it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What do you mean by environmental tolerance? Are you saying, when you change scenery, the opiate you are taking could make you higher than your usual spot of where you get high?

There are environmental cues which lead up to drug use every time.

Let's say you're in an apartment with dim lighting, and a mirror with drugs on it. Every time you snort - you use a paper bill rolled up.

The mirror, razor, powder on the mirror, etc. - are all environmental cues which let your body know to expect the drug. After you have used the drug enough times, the reaction is so strong it overpowers most of the high.

If you go to a new area, and it has none of the other environmental cues, you would be low on environmental tolerance, and this would increase the likelihood of an overdose.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yes that is what Cap'n Heroin is saying. However I think he is missing the point of this thread, which was to ask if using agents to lower tolerance can damage the opioid system.

Dextromethorphan is the dextrorotatory enantiomer of the methyl ether of levorphanol, an opioid analgesic. It is also a stereoisomer of levomethorphan, an opioid analgesic.

...

μ-, δ-, and κ-opioid receptor agonist (Ki = 1,280 nM, 11,500 nM, and 7,000 nM, respectively).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan#Chemistry

This, in part, is probably why using DXM to reduce opiate tolerance will blow; it has an agonist effect at the mu-opioid receptor.

In other words, this is probably not the key drug to use to lower opiate tolerance.

 

[starfarer]

Thinking about the function of tolerance which is to prevent over excitation of the endorphin system using chemicals to directly prevent tolerance from ocurring or lower could be dangerous.
We're all bombarding our receptors with obscene amounts of opiates/endorphins and tolerance I believe is there to create balance. What im asking is whether there is truth in this.

 

[TheAzo]

Dextromethorphan is the dextrorotatory enantiomer of the methyl ether of levorphanol, an opioid analgesic. It is also a stereoisomer of levomethorphan, an opioid analgesic.

...

μ-, δ-, and κ-opioid receptor agonist (Ki = 1,280 nM, 11,500 nM, and 7,000 nM, respectively).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan#Chemistry

This, in part, is probably why using DXM to reduce opiate tolerance will blow; it has an agonist effect at the mu-opioid receptor.

In other words, this is probably not the key drug to use to lower opiate tolerance.

The binding affinity of opiates tends to be really high, relative to other classes of drugs. Morphine for example, has a binding affinity of 1.2nM, and codeine is in the double-digit nM. I doubt a binding affinity 1/1000th that of morphine is clinically significant.

Not saying anything about whether DXM works for lowering tolerance (if it does, it works through an entirely different method as the low dose naltrexone, which is what i'm assuming NLTX stands for in the OP), but this minuscule binding affinity is not a reason to write it off.

 

[dhopeless]

First of all, good job the new forums, bluelight! Man I didn't know what to do with myself the last week or so, but it was worth the wait. Now what exactly is NLTX? Naltrexone?