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Could MDMA replace daily Adderall?

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horsetranq

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I take 30mg XR Adderall daily and was wondering if there is a safe way to take an equally therapeutic dose of MDMA every day in place of the Adderall.
 
Clocktower said:
Nope.
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Magic 8-Ball has it on good information that YES

daily administration of 15-20 mg BID (twice daily) reduced obsessive and ruminating thoughts and was emotionally calming

physically did cause some stimulation, and insomnia at first, however resolved after first 3-4 days -- however, did have SSRI like impact on sexual function

efficacy did not wane and low dose did not interfere with or reduce recreational effects AT ALL -- even after 3 weeks of daily administration

No discontinuation syndrome like Lexapro or Cymbalta

likely individual physiology based -- your mileage may vary
 
It's a nice way to drain your serotonin and develop a rapid tolerance, not failing to mention a greater risk of anxiety, depression and if I was going to predict, impotence.

MDMA is not the same as amphetamine.
 
One Thousand Words said:
It's a nice way to drain your serotonin and develop a rapid tolerance, not failing to mention a greater risk of anxiety, depression and if I was going to predict, impotence.

MDMA is not the same as amphetamine.
Click to expand...

15-20 mg is sub threshold


At a dose of 15-20 mg BID the max serum level is not enough to

1. inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase

2. cause enough S, D , N release to downregulate receptors

3. cause any major changes to SERT


-- this is based on empirical observation, and confirmed by normal effects from a 125 mg oral dose after 3 weeks of daily administration

it should be noted that subject reports no suicide Mondays or Tuesdays from recreational use of 125-375 mg -- only 1-2 week afterglow
 
Uhhhh no nope nein non ect

first I'm guessing thats trading an addiction for another (been on concerta all my life I can't function without it now iv considered getting off of it but ecstasy????....to get off of a drug.......nooooo)

second if your using it recreationally then your tolerance is going to SKYROCKET to the maximum you will not be getting high on it ever again

now if your looking for therapeutic use of ecstasy It is there that is guaranteed people have successfully done it but not daily not daily thats a recipe for disaster

if your looking for tapering off adderall just actually taper off adderall rehab excepts readily for people with prescription medication abuse

thats my 2 cents on the matter

-streetcow
 
One Thousand Words said:
It's a nice way to drain your serotonin and develop a rapid tolerance, not failing to mention a greater risk of anxiety, depression and if I was going to predict, impotence.

MDMA is not the same as amphetamine.
Click to expand...

now when I saw your post I thought misinterpretation was going to happen and needed to comment

taking this literally yes MDMA is not the same as amphetamine (but considering it is dextroamphetamine it is not regular amphetamine they are sooooooo close but the 3d structure is different which does matter) and literally using MDMA as dextroamphetamine is not happening

taking this as the drug class amphetamine they are both amphetamines and act very similarly but MDMA also counts as a substituted amphetamine (in the eyes of the law and technical (I say technical because that is more research chemical classification and how its synthesized not how its identifyed) drug class)

but yes they are both amphetamines and are quite similar actually

the skeleton of MDMA is amphetamine with only minor changes in terms of structure but make its effects totally different and can make it so it binds to many different receptors than the original

Now I'm not trying to start beef I just felt this needed to be addressed

-Streetcow
 
LucidSDreamr said:
its a horrible and dangerous idea. why would you not stick to the adderall. its legal, free with insurance, and given out to everyone that asks for it.
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I can, without reservation (read in what you will) report that:

not only is it NOT DANGEROUS for some people -- it is EFFICACIOUS!!!


Is it recommended for everyone? probably not

Did it work for at least one subject (it was actually 6 consecutive weeks of daily administration, and 125 mg still worked just fine to achieve recreational iwaanarubthatvelvetpussyiloveuallringpopmusicissogreatahhhh response) -- Hell YES!!!
 
MDMA and amphetamine are different drugs with completely different effects. A full dose of MDMA increases dopamine by about 150%, a full dose of amphetamine increases it by about 400% IIRC. So, a tiny dose of MDMA is going to have nowhere near the levels of dopamine (or likely norepinephrine) release as a standard therapeutic dose of amphetamine, and release of these monoamines is the reason amphetamine is used therapeutically to begin with. It just seems pointless, especially considering we have no formal research of the effects of chronic low dose MDMA administration, and knowing the negative effects chronic standard dose MDMA administration can cause.
 
It will not provide the same therapeutic effect. ADD is controlled better via drugs which affect dopamine and norepinephrine than serotonin. For off label uses, or drugs not intended for ADD, opiates would provide better symptom relief than mdma (although highly not recommended). Amphetamine based stims are going to be your best option along with maintaning a healthy diet and lifestyle.
 
taking mdma every day is a very bad idea. also for a reason no one has mentioned here before. mdma activates the 5-ht2b receptor, which causes the mitral valve to grow and stiffen (cardiac fibrosis) —that is if you activate that receptor regularly. occasional use is no problem (there is a paper mentioning slightly altered structure of the heart valve in heavy users but with no medically relevant consequences to the people), but daily use definitely is. mdma activates the 5-ht2b receptor more efficiently than ergotamine derivatives and for those damage to the heart valves is a known side effect of long-term administration.
 
Streetcow said:
the skeleton of MDMA is amphetamine with only minor changes in terms of structure but make its effects totally different and can make it so it binds to many different receptors than the original

-Streetcow
Click to expand...
The difference between hydrogen peroxide and water is but a single atom of oxygen, yet there is a catastrophic difference between the effects of drinking the two.

Never be fooled into thinking near enough is close enough
 
Black said:
taking mdma every day is a very bad idea. also for a reason no one has mentioned here before. mdma activates the 5-ht2b receptor, which causes the mitral valve to grow and stiffen (cardiac fibrosis) —that is if you activate that receptor regularly. occasional use is no problem (there is a paper mentioning slightly altered structure of the heart valve in heavy users but with no medically relevant consequences to the people), but daily use definitely is. mdma activates the 5-ht2b receptor more efficiently than ergotamine derivatives and for those damage to the heart valves is a known side effect of long-term administration.
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low dose MDMA (10-15 mg/BID) does not reach a concentration high enough to induce cellular activity for valvular fibrosis, in fact it is more than an order of magnitude below the identified EC 50 which has a log type curve

also the elimination half-life of MDMA is less than 3 hours at doses under .4 mg/kg

here is an excerpt from a paper that quantified EC50 plasma levels

Importantly, the EC50values for activating phosphoinositide hydrolysis at h5-HT2Breceptors for MDMA (2000 nM) and MDA (190 nM) are nearly identical to the plasma concentrations found in humans after a single recreational dose (150 mg) of MDMA in humans. For instance, after a single 150-mg dose of MDMA, de la Torre et al. (2000) reported a Cmax for MDMA of 2000 nM and a Cmax for MDA of 150 nM.

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/63/6/1223.full

what is also important is that this is simply induction of phosphoinositide hydrolysis, and not actual evidence of proliferation.

Even fen-phen and cabergoline only cause a low incidence of valvular disease.
 
interesting. thanks for looking it up. have you also found ec50 values for fenfluramine? it was not a common side effect, but fen-phen was the drug that made people realise that 5-ht2b agonism can have serious conseqeunces after all.
 
Black said:
interesting. thanks for looking it up. have you also found ec50 values for fenfluramine? it was not a common side effect, but fen-phen was the drug that made people realise that 5-ht2b agonism can have serious conseqeunces after all.
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Fen-phen is adressed in the same study-- graphically -- not sure if actual values are called out

cabergoline was probably the first


of note is that there are some emerging highly selective 5HT2b antagonists that don't bind to anything else
 
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