Controversial music

StoneHappyMonday said:
Ian Watkins of the Lost Prophets was not fucking "great". He was an average man in an average band from a small country (mine) who became infamous for child molestation and raping babies, the mothers of whom he had used his influence over.

He was a human piece of shit and may he rot in jail accordingly. His music does not save him one iota so don't pretend it does.
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More a case of a sick, messed up person that makes music, than "controversial music", right?

Did someone mention Lost Prophets? If so, i seem to have missed it.
Never heard their music, but it's not my scene anyway.

I think there is an argument to be made in regards to judging art on its merit, and ignoring the celebrity gossip column nature of how a lot of people understand music, and see the work and it's creators as inseparable..

While some artists definitely become hard to listen to for reasons relating to their personality or private life - this Ian Watkins guy being a good example, i guess - i sometimes think people focus too much on artists' private lives.
The tabloids love exposing perverts, but i always wonder why people act surprised that some people in the music business are sexual deviants.

Like, when Rolf Harris was exposed as a sexual predator, his art was removed from display all over the world, and people tried to erase all memory of him.
To me there is something problematic in that. Perhaps in hindsight his songs are quite dirty (but always seemed to possibly have a certain naïve innocence about them?) but by modern standards they're pretty fucking mild.

I wonder - if Operation Yewtree had snagged John Peel before he died (Peel admitted to sleeping with underage girls in his autobiography, i believe) - would his amazing range of BBC Sessions over the years (and contributuon to popular music) be chucked in the bin, records discontinued, condemned and never spoken about again?

It's a weird one, i guess - but i find the idea of essentially "disappearing" an artist (and their life's work) troubling.
Has a sort of Stalinist vibe to it - pretending it never happened (and they never existed!) because of some unpleasant biographical details of the artist that made them.

Maybe it's a 'natural' response at times? Perhaps it makes perfect sense - i don't really know.
Sometimes i wonder if the tendency to silence and erase these people from our collective consciousness and memory is just a sign of discomfort and inability to discuss these matters, rather than some deliberate and intentional act of condemnation.
I might be wrong about that.

I suppose nobody wants to listen to gary glitter now...but how many people wanted to listen to gary glitter befofe we found out he's a paedophile? :?
I guess it could be audience-driven as much as media-driven, a lot of the time.

But i digress - it's slightly off-topic, but i think still kinda interesting to reflect on music that is controversial for reasons that have nothing to do with the content of the music itself.
Or circumstances that make you read different meanings into music that you may not have done prior to the "controversy" arising i the first place...

[video=youtube_share;GS-itkO9ia8]http://youtu.be/GS-itkO9ia8[/video]
 
SJ, I think you're right on many points regarding judging art on its merits. Just to deal with Ian Watkins, he was lead singer of the Lost Prophets, they weren't great, (post 56SKL), and it becomes harder to separate the art from the artist in extreme cases like his. But maybe Hitler painted some pretty pictures, I dunno.

I think there is an argument to be made in regards to judging art on its merit, and ignoring the celebrity gossip column nature of how a lot of people understand music, and see the work and it's creators as inseparable..
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i sometimes think people focus too much on artists' private lives.
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I actually think most people focus too little on the artist's life in some ways.

"Like music - hate drugs? Then go home and burn your fucking record collection" - Bill Hicks

Sometimes i wonder if the tendency to silence and erase these people from our collective consciousness and memory is just a sign of discomfort and inability to discuss these matters, rather than some deliberate and intentional act of condemnation.
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I'd like to turn that sentence 180 degrees. Most people have a tendency to pretend drugs and debauchery don't happen to 'their' hero ("Prince took drugs? No fucking way man!") and it is a sign of discomfort with the paradoxes of the war on drugs that give an inability to most people to discuss/accept that Kylie does coke. A deliberate act of delusion. Because of the many other things you said which were all right and which destroy our comfort zone if we accept them.

John Peel never raped babies a la Watkins. But he was dodgy as fuck breaking the laws of consent. And he knew what he was doing. But fuck, he popularized The Fall right? ;)
 
How about Disney music. These people have been doing this shit since 71' or 72' Disney World).

Legally, you can't flat out use subliminal messages, but what about accident.

They play a lot of music here. They raise the price and more people show up.

I bought a 16 oz can of Heineken for like $7.50. Thats programming, lol.

Having little Manchurian candidates running around. JUST KIDDING.

It's nice here.
 
Anything by this band (and anybody who ever passed them on the stairs once in 1982) would count as 'controversial' according to Antifa, LMHR etc., but:
 
^Death in June utterly suck IMO, but I always loved their song titles. Very evocative, and interesting considering Douglas P is homosexual.. But, yeah, Antifa would hate them because they are increasingly open about their neo-nazi links. I'd boycott this shit too, but more on musical grounds. Nice username too, mate, really subtle, no-one knows what 88 means :\

I prefer Current 93 for neo/apocalyptic folk, though David Tibet seems enamoured of nazism and Hitler too, but more as a theme and not actually praising them.
 
swilow said:
^Death in June utterly suck IMO, but I always loved their song titles. Very evocative, and interesting considering Douglas P is homosexual.. But, yeah, Antifa would hate them because they are increasingly open about their neo-nazi links. I'd boycott this shit too, but more on musical grounds. Nice username too, mate, really subtle, no-one knows what 88 means :\

I prefer Current 93 for neo/apocalyptic folk, though David Tibet seems enamoured of nazism and Hitler too, but more as a theme and not actually praising them.
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Ironically, i love Death in June's music.
I don't really buy that the guy is a nazi, but whatever. Politicised music is (for the most part - imho at least) usually not very good.
I love the Dead Kennedys, but a lot of political music is just...preachy, and not that interesting.


Milli Vanilli i don't know much about.
It's funny how everyone rags on The Monkeys for not playing their own instruments - but the same people played on their recordings as the backing group for the Beach Boys, the Byrds, the Mamas and the Papas etc.

The idea of "authenticity" in music can be so overstated.
 
spacejunk said:
Ironically, i love Death in June's music.
I don't really buy that the guy is a nazi, but whatever. Politicised music is (for the most part - imho at least) usually not very good.
I love the Dead Kennedys, but a lot of political music is just...preachy, and not that interesting.
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Hmm, I did the shitty things where you call someone with weird politics a Nazi. I'm pretty sure Douglas is not a Nazi but is a fascist. Or, pretends to be. Or, hangs out with fascists. :\ I don't really care if DIJ is fascist or nazi, I just cannot get into his voice- but what album should I try?

I don't mind political music- if its good. A number of my favorite black metal bands are far-right*, such as Drudkh (Ukrainian atmospheric, beautiful stuff), Peste Noire (weird French medieval punky stuff- you may even like some of it S-junk), of course the greatest BM act, Burzum. However, none of these bands really explicitly refer to their politics, though Peste Noire did in earlier releases. I love Kreator, teutonic thrash with a huge dose of anarchism and far-left ideology. They are explicit, and sometimes annoyingly so.

*It should be noted that BM has always tried very hard to be elitist and misanthropic and the abundance of early fascist and Nazi stuff was an attempt to be edgy and rebellious IMO. I don't think Darkthrone really considered their music 'Norweigan Aryan Black Metal' but they certainly said it was. Burzum, on the other hand, have never released racist music but Varg is adamantly far-right and an utter loon. Musically he is a true genius.

Hey, check out Finlands Goatmoon for some folk/punk/black metal with Nazism thrown in. Now, I don't really dig this style of BM all that much but this track is cool:
 
swilow said:
I prefer Current 93 for neo/apocalyptic folk, though David Tibet seems enamoured of nazism and Hitler too, but more as a theme and not actually praising them.
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Tibet 93 is a true visionary. I would hate to think that some are discouraged by associations which are not apparent to myself.
 
[video=youtube_share;vwAZOIRDQPQ]http://youtu.be/vwAZOIRDQPQ[/video]

This is a great anarchist punk band mocking the death of neo-nazi band skrewdriver's lead singer in a car crash.
MDC stands for "millions of dead cops"

In case anyone has wondered where the chant "no trump, no kkk, no fascist USA" comes from, it's adapted from the chorus of this song:
[video=youtube_share;V_5uWIIjeck]http://youtu.be/V_5uWIIjeck[/video]
 
^What now? How did I get involved in this, without my knowledge?

Nevertheless,

Less the song ( because people are stupid), more the video ( in pop culture; because people are stupid) :)

 
swilow said:
Hmm, I did the shitty things where you call someone with weird politics a Nazi. I'm pretty sure Douglas is not a Nazi but is a fascist. Or, pretends to be. Or, hangs out with fascists. :\ I don't really care if DIJ is fascist or nazi, I just cannot get into his voice- but what album should I try?
Click to expand...

A number of my favorite black metal bands are far-right*, such as Drudkh (Ukrainian atmospheric, beautiful stuff), Peste Noire (weird French medieval punky stuff- you may even like some of it S-junk), of course the greatest BM act, Burzum. However, none of these bands really explicitly refer to their politics, though Peste Noire did in earlier releases. I love Kreator, teutonic thrash with a huge dose of anarchism and far-left ideology. They are explicit, and sometimes annoyingly so.

*It should be noted that BM has always tried very hard to be elitist and misanthropic and the abundance of early fascist and Nazi stuff was an attempt to be edgy and rebellious IMO. I don't think Darkthrone really considered their music 'Norweigan Aryan Black Metal' but they certainly said it was. Burzum, on the other hand, have never released racist music but Varg is adamantly far-right and an utter loon. Musically he is a true genius.

Hey, check out Finlands Goatmoon for some folk/punk/black metal with Nazism thrown in. Now, I don't really dig this style of BM all that much but this track is cool:
[/QUOTE]

Yes. <3

I don't mind political music- if its good ( subjective, I know but...if it functions it functions - if it something that counteracts my political values, I will be stirred..if it counteracts my conscientious values I will want to kill it. This is the way it is for most people, however, if people curb every artistic mode based on its politically correct merit; it will all die and we will lose all cultre and value).

Listen, if people ( between the age of childhood to 26) follow blindly, the ideology of the music they listen to then they need to address their cognitive development issues - I mean that genuinely, as beyond that age, if you havent aquired the capacity to discern your own values/ conscientous objectives from what your culture has thrust on you/ what you choose to like - you need support with engaging your executive functioning, in these matters. It's an actual cognitive deficit. Nothing to be ashamed of but something to be addressed.

Secondly, people have erratic and paradoxical feelings about themselves, social and political issues - as expressed through art. This is not a reflection of their mental/emotional capacity. If one judges that way; they are ignorant to the intricacies of how complex the human condition is, in perceiving life issues, or alternatively, they have a low IQ.

Art is an expression of the paradox of the human experience. There are few domains where this can be expressed and this is one; music, visual arts and all sensory arts are a healthy expression of the human experience. Its not meant to conform - or fit an agenda - it may be chaotic or organised but it is expression.

Social/Political agendas can not be super-imposed on art - its like oil on water. IT will never happen.

Anything that censors it is politically and financially motivated. This is why we keep it and need it.
It is freedom.
:)
 
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StoneHappyMonday said:
Ian Watkins of the Lost Prophets was not fucking "great". He was an average man in an average band from a small country (mine) who became infamous for child molestation and raping babies, the mothers of whom he had used his influence over.

He was a human piece of shit and may he rot in jail accordingly. His music does not save him one iota so don't pretend it does.
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Yep. I hope he is killed painfully.
 
spacejunk said:
Loving this:

[video=youtube_share;Bp-KeVBNz0A]http://youtu.be/Bp-KeVBNz0A[/video]


Fucking love me some feminist punk rock...with a twist, and a dash of former-Soviet-bloc political agitation for good measure.
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I admired them once but their stylistic inertia annoys me - I think its much ado about nothing - same ol shite, riding on the wave of their popularity- I dont see the subversiveness -Just seems like internet wielding likes for people in a bubble (especially at this stage, its the same shit).
Maybe the cultural relativeness is apt, but in terms of global agendas they just appear to be juvenile pop-punk kiddos appealing to their fans.No substance, sell-out,boring pseudofeminist crap. :)
 
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Hey guys, the point of this thread is discussion. Its not meant to be another video thread or a place to spam racist videos (etnies, I'm talking you there) Please write a few lines to describe the controversy. I will just unapprove any videos with no accompanying text.

Thanks in advance. :)
 
Apparently you're talking to me too since my posts went misssing. Censorship in a thread titled "Controversial Music". :|

Oh yeah, and you posted Goatmoon if I'm not mistaken. I don't see what the deal is when others have posted racist music.
 
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