"Controlled Relapse".. what do you guys think?

[Bojangles69]

I know how this process works. You quit the opiate and then never look back. But these past few days my anxiety has been THROUGH THE ROOF. I'm shakey, anxious, and the closer I get to school the more and more anxious I notice Im getting.
I woke up this morning and although I know a lot of the anxiety is psychological, I can NOT stop moving. I can't sit still. I sit down then stand up, I'm basically provoking myself into a panic attack. My heart has been racing for like 48hours now, and when I'm around people it just makes me shakey as shit. I was standing in line yesterday and all I kept telling myself was "breath deep, you are NOT going to have a panic attack" but I noticed my nervous energy was making other people nervous, and thats what in turn winds up making me ever more nervous.
When I have opiates in me for WHATEVER reason I dont get like that. I'm going to take 40mg of inderal, and see how this day goes. But if this anxiety gets any worse I don't know what to do. This was exactly why I withdrew from a semester 2 years back was panic attacks. And I KNOW when I'm "normal" and on inderal, I DON'T have panic attacks. But being recently off opiates, and overflowing with adrenaline, I feel like anything can trigger one right now.

My idea was to wake up wednesday, not smoke, not have any caffiene, work out before class and take inderal, but if can't exhaust this nervous energy I feel like I either have to skip this first week of class... or take a tiny amount of sub.
I have about 16 days clean, and I'm not doing this cause I feel like I need opiates, its more like I just realize my brain is unbalanced right now and I don't feel like I have too many other choices. I was thinking of taking a bit of sub wednesday morning, and that would be it to get through wednesday. And then I don't have classes again till next monday. If I take 1 dose of an opiate now I won't withdraw, but its going to obviously delay the paws phase of recovery.
And I'm wondering what will happen next monday. I can easily just get anxious again and feel like I need some more sub. So I don't want to spiral back into using it. I have 100% will power so to do w/e I need to do, but I don't know... I just can't shake this nervous feeling and its getting worse the closer I get to school starting.
I usually get like this no matter what, but I'm able to control it when I'm either on opiates, or off opiates for a LOONG TIME (to the point where most paws are gone and I'm back to normal).
I have no idea what to do, I'm stuck in this anxious little "in-between" phase and feel like my mind is driving me back towards some sub. When I stopped the sub last time from the taper I didn't really feel much of anything. But its after a couple weeks off I guess my anxiety just goes out of control.

I'll figure out something. My other idea was to desensitize myself a bit before class, which I've been known to do before. Like I'll show up the day before class starts just to walk around campus, and get "use" to being back in that environment with so many strangers around. But I just don't know where this anxieties going to take me... and thats whats really making me nervous. I can control my thoughts 100%, its usually my body I can't control (shaking/tremors/twitching). If I EVER get in the situation where I'm around people and can't stop shaking, thats usually when it manifests into a full blown panic attack. And if I have a panic attack I will NOT be in the right mind that I'm in now. So I'm trying to sort this out ahead of time.

 

[Jabberwocky]

When opiates have been a persons problem, I wonder if some other class of drugs might be better for doing a chemical "reset" than opiates. An argument for opiates is that you know them and have info on staying safe. An argument to use another class of drug is that you will be playing with an ex-lover of sorts & might rekindle the Romance.

I have used risperidone, ambien, cannabis, and ativan to do resets. (not all at the same time) Reset is a chemical intervention that is one time in nature instead of taking daily as maintanance. Vast majority of psychiatrists and Docs don't perceive any value in resets.

 

[sid3]

I'd avoid the sub and take an anxiety med. Maybe a valuim or such. If your anxiety is mostly do to having to start school next week, maybe you could tape a picture of tootsie to your lunch box.

 

[theotherside]

I am 8 days clean off opiates, and this is my 12th time quitting...but this is the longest I've ever gone. I don't believe in controlled relapse because once the feeling is back in your system I "always" fall back into the pattern. Ultimately it is up to you, but in my humble opinion it is a bad idea.

 

[Depressicaa]

You won't know until you try. Personally if you can't deal with your problem, and can control yourself, go and try it. If you can't control your relapse, you shouldn't ever do it again or justify doing it ever.

Anxiety can be dealt with benzos, stimulants, and other medications. Walking around campus helps too. I suggest that you don't go back to the subs. Just from reading your post though, I think that you can understand yourself better than we can, so whatever you do, I hope it goes well.

 

[theotherside]

I forgot to mention that I feel you on the "I can't stop moving, walking, running......" isn't it the craziest feeling in the world. I can't sit on my couch and watch a movie anymore, at work I'm stretching like every 5 minutes.....if I don't my legs start to feel weird.

 

[Legerity]

That anxiety sounds pretty rough. Are you in therapy at all, or taking any meds for it?

If this anxiety is at the root of your desire to use opiates, I would suggest doing whatever you can do work on it without the opiates. Have you abused benzos in the past? I would think if they are easier for you to control they would be safer to use for anxiety, if you use them as prescribed.

And then there are all the typical things like eating well, exercising, etc., that help with anxiety. I my anxiety levels fluctuate but can reach very high levels at times, and I've found exercise to be a great way of dealing with it. That along with meditation have worked magic.

Anyways, it sounds like you are really suffering, but I don't think opiates will be the best solution for you...

 

[Bojangles69]

Yeh thats the thing is I'm not use to feeling "high" anymore and I broke that association in my mind mostly.
The last time I actually got "high" was May 14th, so in a weird way I have like over 3 months 'clean time' from exercising control over my doses (taper). I went back to sub when I got off the pods after 8 days clean (about 4 weeks back) stayed on the sub for 2 weeks and finished tapering off it, and now have been clean 15-16 days.

So I KNOW I will stop when I don't need the sub anymore, I know thats usually the number 1 fear but I AM more of a person who self medicated than a person whos an out of control drug addict. I am a drug addict, but overtime I realized I have genuine anxiety problems, and it kinda got rid of the compulsive drug addict behavoir ( that I use to have when I was much younger). I don't know I'm just not worried about falling back into a pattern. What I'm more worried about, is that my mind is incorrectly associating relief to something that may not give me relief.
All I know is I was not panicky like this even on .10mg of sub. I've taken inderal and clonidine today but I don't have benzos for the mental aspect. Opiates work on that mental aspect of anxiety and I'm more or less taking sub like I should be taking a xanax.

I'll figure out something. I really DO NOT wanna go back after all this time but I got to do what I got to do either way. I really hope I can just manage w/out the shit.

 

[Bojangles69]

I forgot to mention that I feel you on the "I can't stop moving, walking, running......" isn't it the craziest feeling in the world. I can't sit on my couch and watch a movie anymore, at work I'm stretching like every 5 minutes.....if I don't my legs start to feel weird.

The "stretching" I notice I do ANYTIME I get anxious now. As soon as I stretch I get a head rush of blood, and it makes me forget about the anxiety for a few minutes. But I'm always shaking my legs, my feet (when I'm seated), if I'm standing up I always seem to be fidgeting or playing with some random body part.
Its ok when I'm alone, but when I'm around strangers it always gets worse. Which is why Im' hoping I know more people in my classes this year than less. The more familiar faces I see when I sit down in class the less likely I am to start panicing. Its so stupid but like I said its a legit problem all the years I've been dealing with it. Coming off opiates just makes it a nightmare (the panicky feeling the leads to attacks).

 

[belfort]

^^nerves were hellish and out of whack for a long while when i quit opiates..i never took any sedative for it though but i probably should have in certain cases..i think its quite dangerous to take sub or any opiod when you are a recovering opiate addict..i would take a tiny benzo dose to just calm the nerves...u ever try beta blockers?some swear by their anxiety-reducing properties..

 

[Bojangles69]

That anxiety sounds pretty rough. Are you in therapy at all, or taking any meds for it?

If this anxiety is at the root of your desire to use opiates, I would suggest doing whatever you can do work on it without the opiates. Have you abused benzos in the past? I would think if they are easier for you to control they would be safer to use for anxiety, if you use them as prescribed.

And then there are all the typical things like eating well, exercising, etc., that help with anxiety. I my anxiety levels fluctuate but can reach very high levels at times, and I've found exercise to be a great way of dealing with it. That along with meditation have worked magic.

Anyways, it sounds like you are really suffering, but I don't think opiates will be the best solution for you...

Yeh I was on benzos and didn't abuse them but I was always tempted to abuse them because everytime I stayed on one dose too long they seemed to not work anymore for anxiety.
I was on benzos last time I caught my pod addiction and wound up going to detox for it.
I've done lexapro which was by far the most effective with inderal everyday, but lexapro makes me more apathetic than opiates do, and I wound up going back to the opiates cause I was missing work on lex, missing class, and not really giving a shit about anything on it. It almost worked "too well" for my anxiety.
Zoloft increases the panic attacks and makes them worse.
Paxil doesn't do much of anything either way.

Whats most effective for my anxiety is really just opiates and inderal. It seems like my whole life I've been basically conquering opiate addictions and replacing opiates with "substitution" drugs for my anxiety, but I always wind up going back to opiates eventually.
I just can't be the person I want though on almost any drug it seems.
Opiates make me fat and lazy.
Lexapro makes me even fatter and lazier.
Benzos I never got into an abuse cycle with but I consider them worthless ONLY for the fact prob that I didn't abuse them. 4mg of klonopin seems like it doesnt do anything at all after a few weeks on it.

I have to figure out something cause this is obviously a problem I've been dealing with thats been causing me problems almost my whole life. I even remember as young as highscool when I was 16 I'd take sips of vodka before class just to kill my anxiety. I'm fucking 28 years old today and am the SAME GODDAMN PERSON.
Thats whats really depressing. No I don't drink alcohol anymore instead I take opiates cause they work better.. wtf

^^nerves were hellish and out of whack for a long while when i quit opiates..i never took any sedative for it though but i probably should have in certain cases..i think its quite dangerous to take sub or any opiod when you are a recovering opiate addict..i would take a tiny benzo dose to just calm the nerves...u ever try beta blockers?some swear by their anxiety-reducing properties..

Yeh I would absolutely 100% have commited suicide by now if it wasn't for betablockers. They are the most consistent in effective med really for my anxiety. Cause most of my anxiety IS biological, and a much smaller amount in my head (which is always triggering my body).
So inderal keeps my body in check, but if my mind is left to race, sometimes I basically can't take enough inderal to counter it. In reality I think the problem is I may just need a higher dose of inderal.
I know I use to take 80mg and that would shut down EVERYTHING. And I wound up somehow getting back down to 20mg on it. I'm going to talk to my doc about upping my inderal, and I'm gonna see if enough will work for me on wednesday.
But if I think theres any chance I may have a panic attack I may still wind up using sub... I honestly can't guarantee either way.

I'd avoid the sub and take an anxiety med. Maybe a valuim or such. If your anxiety is mostly do to having to start school next week, maybe you could tape a picture of tootsie to your lunch box.

Haha! If you think a good looking girl is gonna LESSEN my anxiety you are crazy =] I'm bound to have a panic attack just my looking at her picture lol

 

[.Lucid.]

I know how this process works. You quit the opiate and then never look back.

i think this is really unrealistic.. you will look back and you will think about opiates again. your mind will constantly be trying to trick you into rationalizing using again, thats what it's doing right now.. so come on man, just hang in there. you dont need to use to get better. if you ever want this anxiety to go away you have to stay clean long enough for your brain to readjust itself to sober life.. 16 days is hardly enough time. i really think you should just keep going and not take anything.
good luck.

 

[ocean]

I think you had the right idea when you said you were thinking about going by the school and getting the feel of it- That way when the day comes, you will be little less nervous.
Practice deep breathing (seriously works), or focusing your mind on one thing in particular......
Like,a if you are panicky, look at a dot on the wall, or your hands, something and concentrate on it while blanking your mind........
Taking a step back with medication or opiates, would be just that, a step back- tempting yourself.
Be careful not to look for an excuse to start up again, I'm not saying you are, but it happens.
And I think I said in another thread to you- Don't put so much pressure on yourself. You don't want to weigh yourself down so much that you crack, ya know?
I am sure Monday will be great and you will do wonderful in school!
Think positively and breathe

 

[belfort]

lucid-problem is if bojangles anxiety existed BEFORE his drug use and it did...its very hard to tell someone to just accept his anxiety and just live with it..getting clean from drugs will only worsen your anxiety..so, hard to say what will work..is there any way to change an anxious personality because from most of what ive read, if anxiety is hardwired into a persons biology, its quite hard if not impossible to change without medication..

 

[cj]

as soon as I read this all I could think was that your rationalizing a relapse. I started college this semester after a 2 year heroin addiction that nearly killed me I relapsed on smack within a week from the pressure of knowing that this was my last chance. I would go with the benzos or anther class of drugs I find amphetamines really help my anxiety for some reason hell being on anything makes me feel better sometimes for me its just being able to tell myself everyythings cool I am high. Goodluck man everything will be cool college is really not as challenging as it should be.

 

[Carl Landrover]

I know how this process works. You quit the opiate and then never look back.

I thought you were going to say something completely different after you said you knew how the process works.


The process I thought you were talking about was that you quit and then after sometime want to use again. You do use again, everything is gravy, and you think that this time around you'll have control. Things won't get out of hand, you just went through all that trouble to get through WDs, you're not going to let that happen again.

That's the process I know.


I hope that's not what happens to you, but any 'controlled relapse' I've had, has been a lead in back to addiction. It may take a few weeks from that first relapse, but it still happens.

 

[das_feuer]

I think that you are just making an excuse, intellectualizing and reasoning a way to make yourself believe that it will be just fine for you to use opiates again, even though you know that you have a problem with opiates. Why don't you take advantage of your school's free counseling? Most colleges have that. You could also try to see a psychologist or a therapist to deal with your anxiety issues "the right way".

 

[b4rd]

Anxiety and opiates mix so well that you may as well just start shooting dope. I think that one with anxiety should never take opiates because they work so wonderfully for combating those awful nervous feelings

 

[.Lucid.]

b4rd are you from mass?

 

[Pchild]

Bojangles,

You were right, sounds like we have very similar stories. I too suffer from panic attacks and have taken Inderal. I now take Atenolol, which is very similar but helps my BP better.

You have really done well going this long, clean. Please don't take any subs. or other opiate. If you are anything like me and slide back to ANY opiate, it may take a week, month, etc., but you will be back in the same 'ol shit hole as before! And believe me, I know what I'm talking about. It has never failed for me in say 10 years.

As for the panic attacks, I will cautiously suggest benzos. I never had a problem with 'em, but know many have. Try to get outside and walk, clear your mind. I once had an attack in class and thought I was going to die. I jumped up, looking like a fool, and basically ran outside. And this was before my love affair with opies. So yeah, I know what your going through. Just hang in best you can and it will pass.
Best of luck on your continued success!