Consequences of the internet drug trade

[SluttyPeach]

that depends, west coast is a lot more vertically integrated than east coast which is still vertically integrated to a degree when copping in a major city
but as said above I am particularly talking about boutique stuff
but who buys heroin, cocaine or pot online as these are easily acquired IRL in most areas?

but again I'm not really talking about impact on the end user

Don't worry about it too much man, let the scaredy cats buy their dope off the net. Most people don't even know you can buy shit like that online. I can see a supplier buying it off there maybe but then again I don't know much about the online drug trade.

 

[Bardeaux]

Well, I don't score at all anymore, and yes, local supply still exists, but a lot of the small time local guys, not the vertically integrated heroin crews or whatever, I mean the small businesses who yes, maybe copped via Internet when it was still a private and more tight-knit community there, they are probably getting trouble because of the wide-open internet shit. Especially people dealing more boutique stuff (i.e. not coke, dope, weed) to a more discerning clientèle who is more likely to try the internet thing, these are the people who are getting hurt and that's the problem.

A valid concern, but not exclusive to internet distribution. It's double edged, I suppose. The recent string of acetylfent-additive related overdose deaths weren't distributed through the internet. With a rating and review based system of trust and quality, one would probably get what is advertised on the web. With a local dealer, you never know. Now, the acetylfent probably wasn't acquired locally to begin with.

 

[LSDiesel]

The scene is half the fun indeed. Usually its a peak into another world that doesnt get recorded into the history books. Well some of it does on bluelight. I still find it crazy the amount people discuss about copping dope on the street for everyone to read online.

Im going to NJ for xmas next week and bringing kratom for holiday stress and to help tone down the urge to cop. Something about being at my folks just makes me wanna get high.

SKL or pharcyde i might need some moral support being located near quality east coast powder

 

[SKL]

A valid concern, but not exclusive to internet distribution. It's double edged, I suppose. The recent string of acetylfent-additive related overdose deaths weren't distributed through the internet. With a rating and review based system of trust and quality, one would probably get what is advertised on the web. With a local dealer, you never know. Now, the acetylfent probably wasn't acquired locally to begin with.

well, the acetylfentanyl that was used to add to the dope was almost certainly sourced from our same friends from the Orient who supply the internet scene, yes?
likewise the various questionable pressed xanax bars
all part of the globalization thing, which is internet linked yes, though not necessarily part and parcel with the "darkweb"
but again, ratings and reviews, all that jazz, great for the custie, not great for the economics of the scene
but as far as the end user goes
also doxxing yourself to a random email address to get drugs is crazy to me
I mean if you want to set up a proper system to get it shipped safely and anonymously
(and that's harder and more expensive than people think)
it's one thing, but for custie quantities of drugs it's not gonna happen
online drug sales, pre-darkweb, used to be a community where people would actually know and talk to one another and build trust
not just by leaving possibly fake reviews but by building actual human relationships even if digitally mediated
that is not what I am objecting to, not at all
I'm objecting to flinging open the gates to all comers
this quite possibly NDTITL deserves a thread in drug culture

 

[Bardeaux]

well, the acetylfentanyl that was used to add to the dope was almost certainly sourced from our same friends from the Orient who supply the internet scene, yes?

That was kinda my point, though. That, and the final laced product wasn't sold via the web, but by local organic homegrown all American small business owning drug dealers.

this quite possibly NDTITL deserves a thread in drug culture

It would be an interesting topic

 

[subotai]

Soon enough everything will be done online. We're slowly turning ibto The Matrix

 

[SKL]

That was kinda my point, though. That, and the final laced product wasn't sold via the web, but by local organic homegrown all American small business owning drug dealers.

It seemed to originate in the middle of the supply chain but I digress ... but yeah I mean file it under unfortunate consequences of globalization, anyway, if not really related to my main beef here with opening internet drug sales to the end user

It would be an interesting topic

maybe i should start one
although i'd wind up reiterating a lot
maybe one of our kindly mods could move it?

 

[phr]

Hate to go all futuristic, but if someone had the choice between clicking a button and having their drug delivered to their doorstep or buying from an IRL dealer, the majority would choose the former.

It happened with everything else that gets bought on the internet now, which people said never would. Clothing, food, shoes, hookers, cars, pets, etc.

E-buying drugs will however not take over until they're legal. So, Paco and his Columbian dope connect will still have to sell to Skylar from the Silk Road so he can mail it out to all of the Ethans and Aiden's that bought online with their bit coins. Those people, by the way, represent a negligible amount of sales in the US and world wide. They just seem popular here because, you know, we're on the internet.

As a user, all I'd care about is product quality and how easy it is to acquire.

 

[SmokingAces]

that depends, west coast is a lot more vertically integrated than east coast which is still vertically integrated to a degree when copping in a major city
but as said above I am particularly talking about boutique stuff
but who buys heroin, cocaine or pot online as these are easily acquired IRL in most areas?

Well people concerned for quality their local dealer doesn't have I guess? Also what about dealers themselves buying it online then selling on, that definitely happens alot in the UK and I've read the US also, dealers not wanting to associate themselves with gangs. Drugs like heroin are the exact reason to buy online if you ask me, where you have access to reviews, test results, and a system to try and resolve the matter should the dealer try to rip you off.

All I'm really getting from you is you don't like the idea of buying online so neither should anybody else.

 

[SKL]

Hate to go all futuristic, but if someone had the choice between clicking a button and having their drug delivered to their doorstep or buying from an IRL dealer, the majority would choose the former.

It happened with everything else that gets bought on the internet now, which people said never would. Clothing, food, shoes, hookers, cars, pets, etc.

E-buying drugs will however not take over until they're legal. So, Paco and his Columbian dope connect will still have to sell to Skylar from the Silk Road so he can mail it out to all of the Ethans and Aiden's that bought online with their bit coins. Those people, by the way, represent a negligible amount of sales in the US and world wide. They just seem popular here because, you know, on the internet.

totes true that the higher end of the supply chain is unbroken leading to the e-drug sales
and yes most people still buy from the street
but a certian business model is hurt

 

[SKL]

All I'm really getting from you is you don't like the idea of buying online so neither should anybody else.

no, I don't like the impact on a particular business model of the ability of the end user to buy online

 

[phr]

it's going to be a lot of patchwork, but I'll see what I can do

Go for it.

I'm not going to dc so you can forget it.

qft

no, I don't like the impact on a particular business model of the ability of the end user to buy online

Why are you concerned about the business model? I imagine you have no skin in the game beyond just being a customer... Businesses and their models need to adapt to survive and if that's where the market is going, due to consumer demand, that's what they have to deal with.

 

[Bardeaux]

also buying drugs off the "darkweb" seems like it would take most of the fun out of buying drugs
i dunno, I never did it
not that buying drugs was always fun but it was, you know, a social activity that connected you to your local scene
which is a beautiful thing in it's way
but this is a perfect allegory, more or less, for how globalization and social atomisation and anomie is fucking us up as a society
want drugs? click the button and the mailman brings it
and, should you desire, you can continue to be a basement dwelling shut in
and not connect with other human beings
21st century schizoid man

This is precisely the appeal for me.

 

[SmokingAces]

no, I don't like the impact on a particular business model of the ability of the end user to buy online

Ahh I see, sorry I misunderstood at first. Yes I can see the problem with that for sure, but on the flip side for the people that can't buy there's already a street dealer buying there and selling it on, although probably cutting it too I guess. Seems common place around my part of the UK.

I don't think waylost needs to be strapping on Kevlar for his one gram deals.

Lol, I thought the same.

 

[SKL]

Why are you concerned about the business model? I imagine you have no skin in the game beyond just being a customer... Businesses and their models need to adapt to survive and if that's where the market is going, due to consumer demand, that's what they have to deal with.

well I have no skin in the game whatsoever now
skin in the game I had in years past, well, I'll leave that to the imagination
I have a certain nostalgia for a certain era and a certain part of my life, I'll admit that's a part of it
first just cut and paste the criticisms of WAL*MART, uber, airbnb, whatever
but second I just think in the aggregate the impact of opening net.drugs to all comers is a bad one
there used to be an online scene where you knew people now it is just anonymous and atomised

also, people go on about quality and reviews and stuff
(first of all, how do we know that the reviews aren't fake? that rabbit hole goes down pretty far when you start thinking about it)
but like I said I went on some of these sites just out of curiosity
you find plentiful bomablotters and shit like that
and I would imagine a lot of the bomablotters that kill kids out in the boonies
or at festivals or whatever come straight from the "darkweb"

 

[anniegram]

God damn it Brigitte Bardot

 

[Sprout]

Hang on... when has buying drugs ever been fun?
I don't tend to use DN, but I will gladly do so for a product worth the time/money/effort.

Buying my Smack on the street meant mingling with people who would gladly stab/shoot/rob/assault me, that was a constant and terrifying worry.
Who the fuck would choose that option?

I love the "drug scene" and the culture associated, and it exists whether the drugs were purchased in person or online - what, do you think because the drugs were purchased online that they automatically are consumed in a different manner to street?
If I buy MD(x)A online I will still be just as likely to use it at a rave than if I bought from some shady guy in a dark corner of said rave.

 

[SKL]

Hang on... when has buying drugs ever been fun?
I don't tend to use DN, but I will gladly do so for a product worth the time/money/effort.

Buying my Smack on the street meant mingling with people who would gladly stab/shoot/rob/assault me, that was a constant and terrifying worry.
Who the fuck would choose that option?

I love the "drug scene" and the culture associated, and it exists whether the drugs were purchased in person or online - what, do you think because the drugs were purchased online that they automatically are consumed in a different manner to street?
If I buy MD(x)A online I will still be just as likely to use it at a rave than if I bought from some shady guy in a dark corner of said rave.

well keep in mind that this thread started in the lounge so a few of the comments ("close DC because everyone will just do drugs in their mother's basement") are loungish hyperbole and should be taken with a grain of Lot's wife

as far as fun goes I guess that is kind of not to be taken literally either, but what I'm talking about is atomising individuals from their local scene and making things less about being connected locally and more about point and click and stuff

again a lot of what I'm talking about is structural not end user experience related

but as develops in the above posts, my main concern isn't for the convenience of the end user but in the open "dark net markets" mucking up a fragile ecosystem that existed before in the nexus between online and IRL drug sales of boutique products like the MDA you mentioned, and also just generally causing problems in certain markets (the rave/festival scene being infested with bomamines and such, "molly" being various and sundry betaketones of the week, etc., that shady guy in the dark corner ...)

 

[SmokingAces]

Hang on... when has buying drugs ever been fun?
I don't tend to use DN, but I will gladly do so for a product worth the time/money/effort.

Buying my Smack on the street meant mingling with people who would gladly stab/shoot/rob/assault me, that was a constant and terrifying worry.
Who the fuck would choose that option?

I love the "drug scene" and the culture associated, and it exists whether the drugs were purchased in person or online - what, do you think because the drugs were purchased online that they automatically are consumed in a different manner to street?
If I buy MD(x)A online I will still be just as likely to use it at a rave than if I bought from some shady guy in a dark corner of said rave.

I had a few friends who were fairly high up the pecking order of the coke trade multi kg batches anyway. And they weren't bad, infact often I wouldn't pay for coke sessions and we'd sniff like 7g's of uncut flakes between us in just one night. The guy who was selling it would wind up standing by the window peering through the curtains half the night paranoid.

The problem with dealing with these sort of people in the UK is a) they attract unwanted attention to you hanging about with them, as in police or sober people questioning you what you're hanging around with them for, as if it wasn't obvious. b) you need to be mentally tough yourself. In those type situations you are what you present yourself as, if you appear soft you will just be another victim for them to use to sell for them or rip off. A lick of banter and don't act too interested and it's fine, it has a shelf life before you get fed up and do your own thing though.

I get what you mean, it's the culture of using drugs I enjoy, or learning about how they're produced. I do not enjoy the culture of the dealing world, it's just pure trouble. Alot of people I know who did sell stuff locally for synidcates now seem to be buying smaller batches, but for cash like 50g of MDMA or whatever, instead of ticking 500 pills, and just selling themselves without the thought that if they don't have the money by X day a crew of guys is at their door.

With crack and smack especially I would rather absolutely nothing to do with those type dealers, and have never bought heroin locally out of the 4 times I have ever purchased/tried it.

SKL, the reason shit drugs are sold at raves is as has it has always been, it's not the markets doing it, it's scumbag dealers using whatever is at their resources. I know guys who have sold on ecstasy which was lethal, rather than flush it.

 

[Sprout]

I could be entirely wrong but it seems many conflate the issues of uncontrolled trade of unresearched RC's (what a misnomer, eh?) with internet distribution of drugs in general.
The RC scene is a fucking trainwreck due to a billion and one different reasons, not least being the greed and ignorance of the suppliers, the obfuscation of actual data by the political class, and the sheer idiocy of the general population.
The NBOMe fiasco is disgraceful, but I think it unwise to consider it anything new: DOx was shifted as 'Cid for decades, the toxicity of the pharmacological nightmare that is bomamines was accentuated by the prior mentioned factors.