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Dissociatives [Combo Subthread] Ketamine & Benzodiazepines

The main thing to worry about with ketamine is due to it's stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system, such as hypertension. It actually has a slight stimulatory action on the autonomic respiratory centre; as such it doesn't require intubation the same way say fentanyl & droperidol does - basically why it's original use was as a first line battlefield anaesthetic as it can be administered without the need for the facilities of an operating theatre. Under such conditions it would be routinely administerd along with morphine, which is a much more serious respiratory depressant than any benzo
 
St. Sebastian and St. Kevin put things straight once again :D.

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p.s. I only ever take MDMA with Ketamine ;)
 
i have quite a high tolerance to both benzos and ket, but never mixed, for some raeson the mind fuck of a k hole always leaves me feeling a lot of anxiety after, so im thinking will a small dose of valium (5-10mg, not much at all), have much effect on the k's effects? I do love K but it does sometimes give me anxiety for some raeson.
 
well after a day'o'k i normally pop a xanax to sleep, and have done ket + alpraz and it is ...erm...sedating and anaestethic (sp..) nothing too special, i feel the benzo's ALWAYS take the *magic* away from the K. But i never mixed more than 1 mg alpraz with 0.5ml k...and never will.
Low dose k and low dose benzo helped me through opioid wd's a lot.
 
The main thing to worry about with ketamine is due to it's stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system, such as hypertension.
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This is what I exprienced. Once apon a time I was laying on my couch IV'ing K. I had just embarked on the 4th or 5th trip in the last few hours and was close to unconscious...I certainly wasn't aware of what was going on around me. Stupidly I had failed to lock the front door of my apartment, and a friend of mine both unexpected and univited, decided to pay a visit just seconds after I had injected. Knocking on the door and hearing no answer he tried the handle and let himself in, only to find me laying on the couch and not responsive. I was totally fine, but he did not know this and called 911 right away....very responsible of him though completely unnecessary. So just as I start to regain perception of reality, the paramedics come in and checked my vital signs...at this point I could talk and explain I was just mainlining K and was perfectly fine. ;) They checked my blood pressure and insisted I come for a ride in the ambulance because it was slightly higher than the "safe" limit.

I know a bit off topic, but just to dispute that ketamine acts as a downer...it generally only produces respiratory depression for several seconds when injected too fast. I will quote the Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialities:

"Following administration of..... ketamine, blood pressure and pulse rate are usually moderately and temporarily increased...... respiration is usually unaffected. Mild stimulation occasionally occurs. However, transient respiratory depression may occur and is generally associated with rapid IV administration." The respiratory depression I experience only lasts a few seconds.
 
Surprisingly enough i have found a good benzo/k mix. Though i do not recommend taking much of Any kind of downer on k. Mixing about five half miligram kp's before a moderate k dose(not a high dose as to lower respiration with the benzo) is quite pleasant. It seemed to make the k seem more colorful and exciting. A friend of mine reported the same effects. Still i would save the benzo's for another time but it is pretty neat and safe with appropriate dosages.
 
I'm very sensitive to stimulation and OFTEN have trouble sleeping after K. Frequently I'll take a xanax (usually just .5mg) and that'll help me sleep. Recently I did K on about 10mg Valium. I still managed to K-Hole just fine, although the dose may have been a little higher. I didn't notice much interaction except that I didn't feel "weird" on the comedown.

I dont see any problem with the combination, and in fact it definitely has the benefit of taking away that uncomfortable-in-your-own-body feeling that K can leave you with.

I don't know why so many people maintain there's no synergy between K and hallucinogens. I've found mush/lsd+K to bring me to a place I could only wonder at on each of them individually. Full on lucid dreaming-like hallucinations FTW. My room was a sailboat. EYES OPEN.
 
I did 10mg diazepam before doing a few lines of k tonight and it was quite a nice experience, as others have said it took away that 'weirdness' that you often get after k :D
 
Diazepam + Ketamine

Can anyone elaborate as to why erowid says these two drugs are contraindicated? It seems like its not a rare combination and apparently is administered in combination in hospital settings. Is it dangerous at certain dosages or something? Can anyone enlighten me, besides the fact that the K experience may be diminished. I'm speaking strictly in terms of physical harm.

Thank ya much :)
 
As far as I'm aware there are no problems (physically) from combining the two drugs at reasonable doses. As you mentioned, in medical situations they are regularly (normally even) used together and it seems to be the preferred option rather than using ket alone. The only potential problem I've noted with the combo is forgetting the experience.
 
i wasn't aware of any issues either and they definitely use benzos with k in medical settings. I've had the combination before and as noted, the only issue is that the k becomes pretty pointless.
 
so anyone know why its contraindicated on erowid? Specifically diazepam...seems weird. I think they attributed it to depressant effects...but maybe they're assuming severe abuse...either way I'd think other much more potent benzos would be more hazardous than diaz
 
I really don't know why Erowid singles out diazepam as being a risk with ketamine but presume it's just one of their mistakes. They may be Erowid but they ain't BL so still make a few errors ;)
 
I think the main reasoning is also listed under alcohol and ketamine; increase in vertigo, nausea, etc. Though in depression treatment with K I'm quite sure they use benzodiazepines with ketamine to reduce the fear of the k-hole. I know I've had ketamine while on (prescribed doses) of valium. Thats not to say its safe, it just didn't effect me negatively at all....
 
the only negative IMO is the reduced effects in the ketamine
 
diazepam is usually indicated rather than contraindicated w/ketamine. RxList: "THE INCIDENCE OF PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIFESTATIONS DURING EMERGENCE, PARTICULARLY DREAM-LIKE OBSERVATIONS AND EMERGENCE DELIRIUM, MAY BE REDUCED BY USING LOWER RECOMMENDED DOSAGES OF KETAMINE IN CONJUNCTION WITH INTRAVENOUS DIAZEPAM DURING INDUCTION AND MAINTENANCE OF ANESTHESIA. "
 
Delsyd said:
the only negative IMO is the reduced effects in the ketamine
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Precisely.

Having been a benzo addict (clean for more than a year now! :)), I have taken Diazepam and Ketamine countless times. Basically the diazepam makes it a bit more difficult to remember your Ketamine experience, and perhaps makes it a bit less psychedelic (this is probably more the case with people who are not addicted to diazepam).

The combo has nothing in common with the K + Alcohol combo, which IS rather messy and negative.

Erowid does have a number of errors and perhaps some not-so objective opinions.
 
Jamshyd said:
Precisely.

Having been a benzo addict (clean for more than a year now! :)), I have taken Diazepam and Ketamine countless times. Basically the diazepam makes it a bit more difficult to remember your Ketamine experience, and perhaps makes it a bit less psychedelic (this is probably more the case with people who are not addicted to diazepam).

The combo has nothing in common with the K + Alcohol combo, which IS rather messy and negative.

Erowid does have a number of errors and perhaps some not-so objective opinions.
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I agree. Makes an already hard to remember experience even harder to recall and maybe dulling it as well. I think it should be safe to use after K to get rid of any residual stimulation.
 
In medical situations they use benzos with ketamine to suppress any "emergent" phenomena (the ketamine experience) when the K is wearing off.

It's no surprise that taking a benzo with K decreases the trip.
 
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