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Dissociatives [Combo Subthread] Ketamine & Benzodiazepines

Dr.DOB

Dr.DOB

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Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
446
i no benzoes affect shrooms/lsd/mdma but what about ketamine????????????
 
I would say they're probably pretty dangerous to use with ket, since both substances depress your respiratory system.

I really see no point to using benzos with ket, the ket will probably just overpower the benzos anyways in terms of effects.
 
Ketamine and benzos isn't very fun. At best you'll just be sloppy as shit, sedated to all hell with severely muted psychedelia; at worst you're dead.
 
Prea said:
I would say they're probably pretty dangerous to use with ket, since both substances depress your respiratory system.
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Absolutely not.

Ketamine does not depress breathing the same way Benzos and Opiates do, and for all intents and purposes, its respiratory depression is negligible.

Benzos do cause repiratory depression with opiates or alcohol, but on their own their respiratory depression is also negligible (that is also why it is so difficult to OD on benzos by themselves).

Mixing K and benzos is actually standard medical practise. It is used as such both to increase sedation and to decrease Ketamine's dissociative effects.

IME, mixing the two leads to a lot more memory loss. They aren't particularly fun in combination, and I see no point in doing so recreationally because it is such a waste a precious K.
 
^Thanks for clearing that up jammy, I've always been under the impression that K + other downers was a really bad thing. I've combined K and xanax before and really wished I'd just taken the K by itself, though. Toooo fucked up. :D
 
well i was considering doing a xanax now and i wont be doing k for another couple hours is that still considered a waste?
 
IME it takes away from the mental effects of the ketamine by ALOT.
 
Jamshyd said:
Absolutely not.

Ketamine does not depress breathing the same way Benzos and Opiates do, and for all intents and purposes, its respiratory depression is negligible.

Benzos do cause repiratory depression with opiates or alcohol, but on their own their respiratory depression is also negligible (that is also why it is so difficult to OD on benzos by themselves).

Mixing K and benzos is actually standard medical practise. It is used as such both to increase sedation and to decrease Ketamine's dissociative effects.

IME, mixing the two leads to a lot more memory loss. They aren't particularly fun in combination, and I see no point in doing so recreationally because it is such a waste a precious K.
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Whenever I k-holed, I wondered if I stopped breathing for a little while, and it seemed like it may have slowed down my breathing. But it's not exactly easy to tell when you're in the hole.

From erowid
Ketamine should not be used in combination with respiratory depressants, primarily alcohol, barbiturates, or Valium.
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Depressants such as benzodiazepines, barbiturates and alcohol can amplify ketamine's suppressant effects on breathing and heart rate, possibly causing cardiovascular and respiratory functions to slow dangerously or discontinue altogether. In one fatality case, where the death was attributed to ketamine in combination with another dissociative anaesthetic and tranquiliser known as Tylazol, the autopsy revealed cardiomegaly (enlargement of the heart) and hepatosplenomegaly (enlargement of the liver and spleen).4 In another case, asthma was listed as a joint cause of death along with ketamine,2 again most likely due to the respiratory suppressant effect of the substance.
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Better safe than sorry imo
 
Prea said:
Whenever I k-holed, I wondered if I stopped breathing for a little while, and it seemed like it may have slowed down my breathing. But it's not exactly easy to tell when you're in the hole.

From erowid



Better safe than sorry imo
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Well guess what? Erowid is actually WRONG for once, because like I told you, Ketamine is routinely used with benzos in medical practise (and in doses 10X larger than the typical recreational dose). The same applies to Ketamine's cousin. Tiletamine, which to my knowledge is not even available by itself, but is ALWAYS in combination with a benzo (Zolazolam or something to that effect, IIRC).

The only dangerous combination is Ketamine + Alcohol, which seems to produce lots of nausea, vertigo, and disorientation, which are clear signs of something very bad in the making.

People routinely take K with Opiates to keep their tolerance down.

Like I told you, the respiratory thing with K is very different from that with opiates and benzos and alcohol. It is a sort of momentary apnea. And guess what? It actually doesn't happen with all people (I never experienced it, even with benzos and opiates). There is a "background" respiratory depression (which is no more dangerous that "respiratory depression" caused by meditation), but that does not seem to be exasperated by sedatives.

While I AM discouraging combining benzos and K simply for economic reasons, I want to be clear that it is not a dangerous combo, and that it does bad for the K in perpetuating the myth that it is a "downer".

----

From my experience:

I had been addicted to benzos for years, and I used Ketamine extensively during those years in every way imaginable, including IV. Never did I experience any sort of danger from combining the two.

I also IVed ketamine and Heroin in the same syringe and nothing bad came out of that (in terms of the synnergy - the act itself is horrendously dangerous, I realize that - I never did it again after that one time).

The only times that seemed iffy were when I drank 2 beers while on K (1 beer was ok, but any more was too much). My friend also experienced projectile-vomit when he snorted K while pretty drunk. He filled Tokyo's streets with lines of vomit having spewed from his bedroom window... not a pretty sight!

p.s. <3 Roger.
 
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Fully agree with Jamshyd, it is pretty routine to use Ketamine and Benzos in combo during surgery. The Ketamine acts as the anaesthetic, but as we all know Ketamine can cause "bad dreams", hence the benzos are added to create retrograde amnesia. Probably undesriable when tryin to trip.

Also, Ketamine is very diff compared to most anaesthetics as it actually maintains or STIMULATES breathing. It's one of the safest anaesthetics, cause all the others cause respiratory depression n etc. Still used in 3rd world countries and war zones n etc where medical equipement is sparse. The main reason it isn't used in western countries (except in children) is again, "bad dreams"
 
Jamshyd said:

While I AM discouraging combining benzos and K simply for economic reasons, I want to be clear that it is not a dangerous combo, and that it does bad for the K in perpetuating the myth that it is a "downer".
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yeah, my drug counsellor started telling me that it was soooo dangerous to mix k with mdma, because it's such a heavy downer mixed with an upper, she said that it puts huge horses to sleep.

what a crock.

i've done k and valium and it was pretty fun, but it definitely makes you reaaal zoned out and messy.
 
^my first time trying ketamine was on ecstasy and thats how i introduced Karma to it too.

Ketamine and MDMA is fantastic.
Ketamine and Heroin although fun also takes away from how beautiful ketamine can be.
 
Ketamine is the King of Komedown drugs <3

With some benzos for afters, perhaps.
 
Dissociative anesthesia with ketamine plus benzodiazepine in a prehospital setting: a retrospective analysis

BF Belezia, CT de Almeida, FL Ferreira, FB Carvalho, LFM Neves, MV Hermeto, RMJ Tassini and AD Moura

Emergency Medical Service, Belo Horizonte City, MG, Brazil

from Second International Symposium on Intensive Care and Emergency Medicine for Latin America São Paulo, Brazil. 25–28 June 2003

Critical Care 2003, 7(Suppl 3):P74doi:10.1186/cc2270

Published: 25 June 2003

© 2003 BioMed Central Ltd

Objective
To analyse efficacy, safety and complications of dissociative anesthesia with ketamine plus benzodiazepine in a prehospital setting.

Materials and methods
A retrospective series of 33 cases from January 1998 to December 1999, in which dissociative anesthesia with ketamine plus midazolan was used to provide anesthesia to prehospital trauma patients, most of them trapped in vehicles. A protocol was developed in 1997, and its use was the decision of the attending physician in patients with a revised trauma score 11 or 12. The data were collected from the patient form.

Results
Ketamine was administrated by intravenous route in 96.9% of cases. In 66.6% of the cases, patients received ketamine parallel to the extrication procedure. All patients became unconscious. The most frequent complications were agitation (9.09% ), clonic eye movements (3.03% ) and transient ventilatory depression (3.03% ). None of the patients necessitated a definitive airway.

Conclusion
Dissociative anesthesia with ketamine plus benzodiazepine is efficacious and safe in a prehospital setting, in patients with a revised trauma score of 11 or 12.
 
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