• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Opioids Cold Water Extractions (CWE) Vs. Pharmaceutical Codeine Phosphate

A

Anchor_and_echo

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
3
Location
London
Has anyone found the following to be true? It would be a lot of help if you have any insight, so cheers.

Cold Water Extractions (CWE) Vs. Pharmaceutical Codeine Phosphate

This has been happening to the subject for a few months:
Prescription codeine has stopped working at any dose amount. By prescription I mean pure codeine phosphate tablets (60mg tabs). Which when taken - between 500mg to 1 gram at a time - just produces histamine at higher doses and literally NOTHING else. But, totally inexplicably, CWE's of Codeine 8mg/ Acetaminophen 500mg (paracetamol - uk) X 64 ... results in the desired effect: the metabolism of codeine into morphine.

The subject had been a previous methadone user (75ml daily), quit just over 7 moths ago. Clean from all opiates for 3 months, then back to codeine for the last 3-4 months. The subjects tolerance has, assumed, reverted back to previous tolerance after using codeine daily for 3 months - Do you think that tolerance would have gone back to the level at when on methadone, making codeine now useless? But, if so, why is it that CWE's continue to have effect and at much lower doses than the codeine phosphate tablets have?

For example: CWE's of 64 x 8mg codeine = 512mg codeine and probably results in at least a 10% loss (assumed), giving approx. 460mg codeine - this has HAD the desired effect in the subject, whereas pure pharmaceutical Codeine Phosphate tablets in doses of 500mg or 600mg or 700mg etc has NOT worked at all.

This has been the case case with the subject consistently time and time again. Also worth noting - just to make this even more boring and baffling - these tablets did work before the methadone, which is obviously expected, it's just strange that CWE works and the tabs don't.

Considered was the enzyme CYP2D6... but that doesn't seem to explain why CWE works and the pure tablets don't.

Anything would be appreciated - similar experiences, advice..... anything man, cheers
 
This is a curious case..at a guess id say it an enzyme thing.
Could the paracetamol be causing an enzyme inducing effect on CYP2D6?.

You could test this by takung the pure codeine phosphate after a couple of plain paracetamol and see if that works.

My only other guess would be a stomach absorption issue but those codeine tabs are pretty small and you would have other problems if this was the case.
Id be interested to find out theanswer to this one!lol
 
Thanks for your reply. I Literally thought the exact same as you! Two possibilities came to mind:

1. That somehow the paracetamol was inducing CYP2D6, the subject does his utmost to reduce paracetamol content to a minimum but there would still be some regardless. The subject has actually had the paracetamol content of his blood examined in hospital, about 12 hrs after a CWE dose, before (for an a unrelated reason!) and the doctor said there wasn't any, which the subject found remarkable, but the doctor was looking for life threatening abnormalities. Anyway, I've been unable to find any evidence supporting this theory, however it remains the only thing I can think of.

2. That due to stomach absorption rates or something - the dissolved codeine into liquid being a much more efficient route than simply the tablets alone...but it doesn't really make sense cos as you said - they're tiny etc.

So, yeah. The subject will report back on if the addition of a safe amount of paracetamol (1 gram) makes a difference. Thanks for your help
 
No idea unless the inactive fillers in the pure pills are hindering how they absorb...and that makes no sense.

Try to CWE the pure pills and try again? LOL
 
I dunno maybe something to do with the codeine being in liquid form when you do cwe? Interesting.
 
I dunno maybe something to do with the codeine being in liquid form when you do cwe? Interesting.
Click to expand...

Probably this, pre-dissolved codeine is more rapidly absorbed than codeine in pills.
 
Anchor_and_echo said:
That somehow the paracetamol was inducing CYP2D6, the subject does his utmost to reduce paracetamol content to a minimum but there would still be some regardless. The subject has actually had the paracetamol content of his blood examined in hospital, about 12 hrs after a CWE dose, before (for an a unrelated reason!) and the doctor said there wasn't any, which the subject found remarkable, but the doctor was looking for life threatening abnormalities. Anyway, I've been unable to find any evidence supporting this theory, however it remains the only thing I can think of.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying this isn't relevant, but it is less relevant that most people think it is. Recent research suggests that codeine need not be o-demethylated into morphine to become active. It has been shown that the codeine-6-glucuronide is responsible for up to 60% of codeine's effects. Which offers an explanation to why people who are on potent CPY2D6 inhibitors (like myself - 60mg fluoxetine & 50mg amitriptyline DAILY) can still get fucked up on codeine pretty easily - yes I do need huge doses of codeine, but I'm opiate dependent and very tolerant, the doses I need are little to do with the other meds I take.

Anchor_and_echo said:
Considered was the enzyme CYP2D6... but that doesn't seem to explain why CWE works and the pure tablets don't.

Anything would be appreciated - similar experiences, advice..... anything man, cheers
Click to expand...

I personally find the opposite to be true. Pure tablets are brilliant for me, i only CWE when absolutely necessary. Also, as said early, the 2D6 stuff is not as relevant as you think.
See this link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11092114

Google has lots of papers and info on this subject as well.

Stay safe people.
 
their isn't any point of taking that much the ceiling dose is roughly 500mgs anyway any more is just a waste try drinking some grapefruit juice and some other potentiators also the ld50 of codine is 850mgs and when your doing cwes you probably wont be getting all of the codine out
 
Everybody is different man. I go past that "ceiling" dose all the time. And I definately get increased euphoria sedation from the high doses. I'm not saying this is true for everyone. I know a guy who goes into anaphylaxis at even 15mg codeine. Everyone is different.

LD50 @ 850mg? Then I must be communicating from beyond the grave :P. But in all seriousness. I've done double that in a single dose. You itch yeah, but it's nothing some hydroxyzine can't sort out. I do double this dose very regularly. But you shouldn't do this - I do not recommend it to anyone. I can do this "safely" as I have a huge tolerance for these types of drugs. Been dependent for almost a decade now. I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to swallow 1700mg of codeine. I had to work my way up to that, very very slowly. It takes a lot of practice.

I could argue against the grapefruit juice - it doesn't increase you CYP2D6 at all, it inhibits your CYP3A4 meaning it must be metabolized by CYP2D6 (which will probably be saturated anyway). In theory this should only increase the duration of effect of codeine, not the intensity of effect. And if like me, you are on CYP2D6 inhibitors this could at best ruin any positive effects from codeine, or at worst be very dangerous.

Morphine is not the only active metabolite. And evidence is mounting that it may not even be the primary metabolite that produces analgesia.

Stay safe people.
 
ive found that grapefruit juice does work only problem is that it tastes worse than a cwe an I've come to love the itch the its usually a sign of things to come aha an how come your still taking codeine and not doing cwe's on dhc containing things
 
Funny you should mention that. I normally CWE codeine because i can get over a gram of codeine for less than a pack of cigarettes. Whereas the only OTC DHC product here is more expensive than 32 pack of Neurofen Plus (and it the DHC only comes in 24 packs, and their only 7.46mg/500mg each). However I got paid today so I've actually got ~800mg DHC in me right now. I get pure codeine dispensed to me every Tuesday/Wednesday from my beloved doctor so I only do CWE when my script has finished or if i want to get extra high, like now :D

Smiles all rounds :)
 
yea same lad I usually get 100 x 30 mg phosphate (usually teva which are the best ones ) every week or two I find codeine linctus gets me properly fucked aswell an sometimes get the odd bit of oxy or strip of dhc of my mate
 
frozenfridge said:
yea same lad I usually get 100 x 30 mg phosphate (usually teva which are the best ones ) every week or two I find codeine linctus gets me properly fucked aswell an sometimes get the odd bit of oxy or strip of dhc of my mate
Click to expand...

Yeh but you're knocking that on the head aren't you? ;)

FYI - 1700mg of Codeine Phosphates ridiculous, why even bother taking it? Bet there's a hell of a lot of placebo effect taking place. If it takes such daft amounts of phosphate to get a buzz why not just use stronger opiates? I'd imagine anyone regularly taking that much codeine to achieve a high would've moved onto to stronger opes? Just sayin ime.
You say you're used to stronger opes, oxy etc why even bother with phosphate.
Your post kinda includes a disclaimer but what's to say someone won't go and try taking similar kind of doses? It's irresponsible and screams 'look how big my dick is!!' I could easily do that amount over the course of a day but not all at once, even still if I had to do that I'd rather take more potent opes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top