Opioids Cold Turkey - Preparation? Medically fit? Need help

[jaystyle]

Hey all,

Im getting ready to plan to get off opiates for good. My first plan was to do a rapid suboxone taper, but I fear it will leave too much time in a feeling shitty, but not horrible, limbo half wd state that will make relapse easy since I'll be feeling bad for 2-3 weeks. Instead, I am gonna take like 2mg-3mg of subutex ONCE, wait 48 hours, than take a "trip" for 5 days for a relatively cold turkey detox. I'll bring clonodine & xanax with me, and that little bit of subutex in me will take the edge off and let me down a little slower.

I have been abusing mostly oxycodone---my usage from 150-200mg often with additional morphine and hydromorphone in the day as well in the last 2 months. Before I take the subutex, im gonna try my best to ween down as much as possible as well so it is not super intense. I've been using for 2-3 years, but to put things in perspective, in January I went overseas for 2 weeks and had almost no withdrawal when I left. This means most of my damage from heavy use has occurred over the course of 2010.


My questions now:

1.) The one time 2-3mg subutex 48 hours prior to my trip-- do you guys think this is advisable to lessen the severity of my withdrawals?

1.) The severity of this type of wtihdrawal--- I am scared that if I take my car, the intensity of the withdrawal may send me back home to relapse. Do you think it'd be a good idea to come clean to 1 person so they drive me to my "resort"? Or do u guys think if I am committed to this withdrawal seriuosly, the intensity of it is "handleable"... I've never had a full powerful withdrawal before, so I don't know what to expect.

2.) Is it safe to withdrawal on my own in hotel room? I am 25/M and seem to be in relatively good health... should I get in shape more first, like do some cardio and get fit and stronger physically first? Eat some good food first so my body is feeling "good"? Or is it safe to detox from opiates for the most part as long as you are not frail and old, or disease?

3.) Do you think 4 nights is enough or do I really need like a week? I am scared of coming home during my withdrawal and relapsing.

4.) Do you guys think narcotics anonymous is a good idea during my vulnerable first month? IF I make a strong commitment to getting my life together, do you guys think after 1 month of being opiate free it'll be substancially easier not to relapse and to control my urges, or is relapse inevitable for someone like me... I feel really hopeless, everyone seems like once you abuse as much as me, you can never be free from these chains. I really do want to make a real effort though to be clean for good so I can start a life with a wife and family and career and live a normal life. Has anyone with a habit worse than me overcome opiate addiction? I'd love to hear some stories to give me hope if u guys are out there.... I dont want to kiss my life goodbye over some mistakes I made, its just hard to muster the willpower necessary to do this.


I appreciate any info you can give me to one, two, or all of my questions. Thanks!

 

[adder]

1) I guess this is totally redundant. It seems like you need "one last" excuse not to experience withdrawal right away. And with abrupt discontinuation you want it to end as soon as possible, right? So the sooner it begins, the sooner it ends.

Tell me you don't think of driving in such a state for real, please. Actually, you may do a lot of harm driving and feeling terrible from withdrawal. 150-200mg of oxycodone with unknown amount of morphine and hydromorphone for 2 months means your withdrawal is going to be a week of real pain.

2) Well, it is as long as you can handle it PSYCHOLOGICALLY alone. Besides, you wrote you have clonidine and alprazolam to ease the pain - clonidine isn't a drug to use without proper knowledge about its effects. You might easily overdose on clonidine, especially if you take a lot of alprazolam. (clonidine is to help with sky rocketing heart and constant "fight or flight" feeling as it depresses the same center opioids do but it doesn't have their addictive properties - it's not a tranquilizer, just know it's strong)

I don't think you can get "fit" while still doing opioids to feel better during withdrawal. Just make sure you actually eat during withdrawal and that may present problems as appetite really drops during this time.

3) 4 nights will probably only lead you to the peak of withdrawal and from then you'll feel that withdrawal subsides.

4) If you feel it may help you in any way, then any therapy, be it in group or not (I don't like group therapies). Relapse isn't inevitable. People spend more years taking doses greater than yours and they stay away and they find some way to stay away from abusing opioids (sometimes maintenance programs are the only way). I think it's very good you decided to quit. If you don't want to kiss your life good-bye, then maybe it's some sign you don't really want to take any opioids? And any relapse would actually mean you can't bear physical pain, it's still there after the main withdrawal, you'll be very sensitive to any stimulus. But what really makes people relapse is psychological pain. So you really need someone to help you with this all, someone you can talk to, someone to help you find yourself in the world with no opioids.

That's my opinion. Some may have different look at your plans on using Subutex once but I personally think if you really want to ease your withdrawal with buprenorphine - then why don't you taper down with Subutex? At the end it won't really look like you'll feel weak withdrawal for weeks. You may feel "not there" for a couple of days but that's all. The same goes for methadone. It just has to be done correctly. The reason many taper schedules don't work for so many people is they haven't been written properly.

Wish you luck!

 

[stray cat]

wow, what a turnaround! weren't you the one who started the op experimentation thread or whatever? ha, sorry if that's not you, and i'm just fucking with you. best of luck with quitting; it's not impossible, and you can definitely do it, although it is certainly a struggle.

1. i've heard of people doing stuff like this, but i have never tried it myself and thus am not sure about what results to expect. some people talk about using sub to "get through the withdrawals," which is i guess what you're sort of thinking, but i don't know whether it works like that or not. other people say your withdrawal from opiates does not begin until u stop everything, so taking the sub is just prolonging the inevitable. i'm not sure which is true or if the answer is somewhere in the middle, but i do know that you can do a pretty quick taper off of opiates using suboxone that really minimizes the physical w/d if you don't want to do maintenance, so maybe try that if this doesn't work out. i don't see any real harm in taking a few mgs once though, and maybe it could sort of "ease" you into the w/ds... only one way to find out.

2. i'm no doctor, but as far as i know, you should be fine physically. i don't think it's anything to really worry that much about. seriously, the physical aspects of withdrawal are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. don't get me wrong- highly unpleasant is probably an understatement- but it's not this earth-shattering, world-ending cataclysmic event that people build it up to be in their heads. you feel bad for a few days, then you feel slightly less bad. that's pretty much it. nothing to be like deathly afraid of, and you've got some stuff to help. get some immodium too.

3. it really varies from person to person, but i doubt every symptom will be gone in 4 days exactly. really though, the mental part of this is so much more difficult than the physical, and i guess maybe it's just difficult to see that very clearly until you've gone through the physical a time or 2 and recognize it for what it is.

4. na can be a really good idea for a lot of people, and it kind of depends on whether or not you are one of those people. some form of support is definitely really helpful and in some cases necessary, so i don't see any reason not to give na a shot. i do believe, however, that in order for that and similar programs to be effective, though, you have to be willing to fully commit to them, which is not something people your age are always willing/able to do. at 25 years old, and maybe not having experienced any seriously negative consequences from your use (i don't knwo this- i'm just guessing, maybe you have- but i'm not talking about just like being broke more often and stuff like that), are you willing to completely restructure and reprioritize your entire life? because success in na is often dependent on such a commitment- it's not necesssarily a bad thing, and your life may improve greatly for making such a commitment, but i'm just saying a lot of younger people aren't willing to change so drastically, and that program will not be as effective w/out tat kind of willingness. certainly some support group or therapy or something would be good no matter what, and i'm not discouraging na- be open to anything that might help.

it will be easier after a month, but it never gets completely easy. when you start getting complacent about it and thinking it's easy, that is when people tend to relapse more. you are not destined to relapse, however. if you do, it's not the end of the world.

lots of people have overcome opiate adiction. hell, i've done it a few times, lol... seriously though, lots of people get clean and stay clean. i don't know how many of them keep posting on drug boards afterwards, but my guess is that interest in forums like this might decline with the cessation of active addiction. nothing is preventing you from leading a happy normal life; i can definitely attest to that. i have a great job, great wife, multiple degrees, etc. granted, i still struggle at times with various addictions, but i'm improving, and having things like that going for me helps me avoid (as best i can) getting too involved with drugs again, etc.

you can do it dude.

 

[ATLL765]

1.) This can't hurt. When I used suboxone to get off heroin, I used about 2mg per day for 4 days and by the end of those 4 days, I was feeling very minimal physical withdrawal symptoms. Some people have said that using suboxone/subutex is just prolonging the inevitable, but it definitely isn't, so it's not going to turn what would normally be 3-5 days of withdrawal into 2 weeks of half withdrawal. When you take subs, you are able to take such a small dose of it, that if you take it long enough, when you stop, you'll pretty much be out of withdrawals from your DOC and from my experience, what's felt after that, is very, very minimal physical withdrawal symptoms. So bottom line is taking 2-3mg once can't hurt, but taking that much over a longer period of time, I believe, wouldn't do much harm either and would most likely make getting out of withdrawals easier.

2.) As someone stated earlier, I hope you don't plan on driving while you're withdrawing. In withdrawal, I can barely get out of bed and driving would be impossible to do safely. Taking someone with you would definitely be helpful, if only just to give you someone to keep you company for the time you're withdrawing. Sleeping is quite difficult when you're in withdrawal, so you'll have a lot of time and not a lot to do, so someone to talk to I'm sure would be nice for you.

3.) It's not possible that you'd experience any physical harm directly from the withdrawals. Any medical issues would occur due to the effects of withdrawal, such as, dehydration from excess sweating, stomach issues from not being able to hold down food, etc. As long as you have lots of water and food that's easy to hold down, like soup, bread, pretzels, etc. it shouldn't be any problem for you and you shouldn't need to get into shape for it. It's exhausting to do, but it's not a professional sport or anything haha.

4.) 4 days should be long enough to get you out of most of the physical withdrawals. You may still feel crappy from having been in withdrawal for the past few days, but you should be ok otherwise. A week is probably a bit excessive especially if you're shelling out your own cash for a hotel room for the whole time. As far as coming home and relapsing, the length of stay I don't think will affect this much. If you're gonna cave and relapse, staying an extra 2 days probably isn't gonna save you from that.

5.) NA really isn't my thing, but it's definitely something you should check out for yourself. It's helped many, many people and it may very well be helpful for you to overcome your addiction. Things will get easier over time and I'd say after 1 month, it seems as if your brain chemistry gets back to almost 100% normal, so things seems significantly easier after that point, but there's never a time where it's truly easy. The cravings and thoughts of drug use will slowly subside as time goes by, but stay present in your life for a long time and it's just something you have to find a way to deal with.

Good luck with your taper/cold turkey. I hope you come out the other side happy and healthy. Definitely come back and update the thread during(if you're able to type while feeling so crappy, but it may be a way to keep your mind busy during that tough time) and after you're done with your detox trip.

 

[axe battler]

I wouldn't bother woth the subs if your gonna just cold turkey.

Just fucking go for it and save the subs for when you have no tolerance to give you a nice little buzz now and again; taking them during your withdrawal will just prolong it.

Just eat your xanax to take the edge off, get some good DVD's/books and a nice, understanding lady friend to stroke you and tell you it'll be all alright.

Actually, you could wait until you're almost through with your withdrawals and take the subs in smaaalll doses to help with the inevitable PAWS; if you have the willpower that is.

GOOD LUCK MY DEAR FELLOW!!!

 

[axe battler]

Oh and anything you especially like: weed, ice cream, tea, horlicks (I love that shit) may help cheer you up!

 

[andyb]

1.) The one time 2-3mg subutex 48 hours prior to my trip-- do you guys think this is advisable to lessen the severity of my withdrawals?

Yeah, it should help. Like you seem to know, you're still going to be uncomfortable, but I've done it this way myself. Just like you said the suboxone's long half life kind of eases you into it.

1.) The severity of this type of wtihdrawal--- I am scared that if I take my car, the intensity of the withdrawal may send me back home to relapse. Do you think it'd be a good idea to come clean to 1 person so they drive me to my "resort"? Or do u guys think if I am committed to this withdrawal seriuosly, the intensity of it is "handleable"... I've never had a full powerful withdrawal before, so I don't know what to expect.

If I were you I think I would almost have to "come clean" to someone else and have them drive me. Physically it usually isn't as bad as you psych yourself out to think it will be, at least it's not for me. Mentally, though, if you're anything like me, you're going to have a VERY strong temptation to do whatever you can to relapse, and that includes driving yourself back.

2.) Is it safe to withdrawal on my own in hotel room? I am 25/M and seem to be in relatively good health... should I get in shape more first, like do some cardio and get fit and stronger physically first? Eat some good food first so my body is feeling "good"? Or is it safe to detox from opiates for the most part as long as you are not frail and old, or disease?

You should be just fine. Just stay hydrated, especially if you have diarrhea and/or vomiting, and try to eat what you can.

3.) Do you think 4 nights is enough or do I really need like a week? I am scared of coming home during my withdrawal and relapsing.

I would give it a week. Don't think you're going to come back in a week and be cured though. You're still going to want to use. By a week, though, the majority of your physical withdrawals should be done with.

4.) Do you guys think narcotics anonymous is a good idea during my vulnerable first month? IF I make a strong commitment to getting my life together, do you guys think after 1 month of being opiate free it'll be substancially easier not to relapse and to control my urges, or is relapse inevitable for someone like me... I feel really hopeless, everyone seems like once you abuse as much as me, you can never be free from these chains. I really do want to make a real effort though to be clean for good so I can start a life with a wife and family and career and live a normal life. Has anyone with a habit worse than me overcome opiate addiction? I'd love to hear some stories to give me hope if u guys are out there.... I dont want to kiss my life goodbye over some mistakes I made, its just hard to muster the willpower necessary to do this.

NA meetings work for some, and not for others. For me, they don't help at all. Sometimes I feel like it makes it harder for me, really. But I also know people who swear by them so I think it's something you just have to try out and see how it works for you.

Not relapsing gets easier the longer you have gone without, but NEVER make the mistake of thinking you're out of the woods. That's when the stinkin' thinkin' will start to get you with thoughts like "Oh, I've been clean long enough now. I can use once and walk away," and stuff like that come in. You'll never be completely over it, at least I've never been to that point and have heard others say the same. You just have to remember why you made that choice to stop. Accept it as part of your past, but also understand that that's where it needs to stay. In the past. Good luck, brother.

 

[jaystyle]

thx

THanks for the good informatino & support. Yes its true I havn't had any of the severe negative consequences of use yet so I Dont have that strong will to quit that people have who lost family and friends over it. THeres still plenty of bad stuff it's caused though and more in the horizon if I dont shape up. I gotta plan a one week escape without alerting family or friends, thats the next challenge.

I'll keep a log when I do it. Hopefully within a month. Thanks,