Codeine Extraction - Part II

[Mr Blonde]

^ Interesting, thanks for sharing. Of course amphetamines wouldn't be a good substitute for opioids, however they present an interesting, occasional escape from pain completely as opioids tend to just dull the pain, not completely remove it.

 

[wwbbs]

It seems that Crankinit and I have observed similar situations. Insufflation no im/iv although from what I've seen of other peoples reaction to im/iv I could see it having similar results. Some times I have attempted to smoke it and it; that would actually cause more pain (could be the junk they cut it will not liking the thermal breakdown). Any I just would not enjoy that intensive of a buzz from im/iv. aka I like to stand and talk. Not fall over an drool all over myself.

So yes for very short term complete pain relief .25~3.5G of a good quality powder will do the trick, as will good mdma or an stimulants, I just find the powder is much cleaner than any of the other stimulants and you can can control doseges much easier. Now one thing you really should do unless your intent is suicide is to mix a stimulant (especially blow I've heard your millage may very) with narcotics. So Clean you system up before you add a stimulant ie skip you last 3 o 4 doses and make a friday night of it. This shouldn't be repeated much more than a couple of times a month or else you risk doing your body much more damage than good. The last thing you want is to be sick from either or both of those at the same time. Hope it helps someone.

 

[wwbbs]

Ah, I dig brother. No problems at all, I was just curious as to your location when you mentioned what you were RX'd.

Could you possibly expand on how you use cocaine for pain relief?



Strangely at the height of my codeine addiction I got up to using 1.8 grams of codeine roughly in one dose (you lose some in a CWE), recently I got back up to 1.5 grams but have been clean for two weeks and a few days since then.

It is probably due to your specific metabolic absorption/conversion rate for codeine. I too have went close to the 1000mg level or 5x200mg Pills in 15min period chewed and washed down with cola/coffee with lots of sugar. (does anyone talk about eating loads of sugar while doing this too " Glucuronosyltransferase ") I should have made mention to that in my earlier post about the 400mg that metabolic rates do differ I've seen people ingest 30mg of Codeine with 325 Aceto... and 15mg of caffine hallucinate and go right wacky, they were efficient in converting the codeine.

 

[Moral Decay]

Strangely at the height of my codeine addiction I got up to using 1.8 grams of codeine roughly in one dose (you lose some in a CWE), recently I got back up to 1.5 grams but have been clean for two weeks and a few days since then.

so is it fair to say then that the ceiling dose is BS?

cause all the literature on codeine says anything more then 400mg cant be metabolized.

 

[wwbbs]

Well possible that 400mg is a bogus ceiling dose. Remember it's still dangerous to for non opioid tolerant people to use that much codeine, actually I would go even further to say that just being opioid tolerant might not help. Codeine is a histamine antagonist which is where the problem is, ie you could react so quickly to the histamine that your lungs fill up before you have time to dial 911, and long before any other effects come through. which is why never iv codeine and only im/sc if your f'n sure that's what you want.

 

[Mr Blonde]

so is it fair to say then that the ceiling dose is BS?

cause all the literature on codeine says anything more then 400mg cant be metabolized.

By no measure would I say that. I know people in real life who can't go above around 400mg, they only get an increase in histamine response not opioid highness.

My educated opinion is that it comes down to CYP2D6. People like me, who can get a hell of a lot out of codeine, quite like it and take it up to what sounds like crazy doses, probably can metabolize it a lot better then most people can. Just like how around 10% of the Caucasian population are poor CYP2D6 metabolizers and will get little out of drugs that need to be broken down by CYP2D6 to take effect.

Also, holy shit are Mahavishnu Orchestra amazing or what.

ETA:

Well possible that 400mg is a bogus ceiling dose. Remember it's still dangerous to for non opioid tolerant people to use that much codeine, actually I would go even further to say that just being opioid tolerant might not help. Codeine is a histamine antagonist which is where the problem is, ie you could react so quickly to the histamine that your lungs fill up before you have time to dial 911, and long before any other effects come through. which is why never iv codeine and only im/sc if your f'n sure that's what you want.

I would also like to expand on the part here about the histamine response. It can be very dangerous, hence why the LD50 for codeine can seem low to recreational users. It's the histamine response that is dangerous. At the height of my usage, if I took a break for just a few days then dosed at where my tolerance was at, the histamine response would be very powerful. After a use or two though, I develop a tolerance to the histamine response though and it goes away.

Also, expanding on my previous point on The Mahavishnu Orchestra, check out Birds of Fire, specifically the track 'One Word'. Fucking amazing.

 

[Moral Decay]

Well possible that 400mg is a bogus ceiling dose. Remember it's still dangerous to for non opioid tolerant people to use that much codeine, actually I would go even further to say that just being opioid tolerant might not help. Codeine is a histamine antagonist which is where the problem is, ie you could react so quickly to the histamine that your lungs fill up before you have time to dial 911, and long before any other effects come through. which is why never iv codeine and only im/sc if your f'n sure that's what you want.

Makes sense; 240mg of codeine is the threshold dose for me. Any less and I feel nothing. Exactly 240mg and I get mild analgesia but nothing int eh way of euphoria. At 270-300mg I get about the same level of analgesia as the 240mg dose but the histamine release is nearly intolerable. I get severely itchy and a headache pretty strong headache. My eyes become very dry, red, and itchy. I have thought abut taking doses in excess of 240mg with promethazine before but read in one of these threads that promethazine prevents the liver from converting codeine into morphine.

By no measure would I say that. I know people in real life who can't go above around 400mg, they only get an increase in histamine response not opioid highness.

My educated opinion is that it comes down to CYP2D6. People like me, who can get a hell of a lot out of codeine, quite like it and take it up to what sounds like crazy doses, probably can metabolize it a lot better then most people can. Just like how around 10% of the Caucasian population are poor CYP2D6 metabolizers and will get little out of drugs that need to be broken down by CYP2D6 to take effect.


Also, holy shit are Mahavishnu Orchestra amazing or what.

ETA:

I would also like to expand on the part here about the histamine response. It can be very dangerous, hence why the LD50 for codeine can seem low to recreational users. It's the histamine response that is dangerous. At the height of my usage, if I took a break for just a few days then dosed at where my tolerance was at, the histamine response would be very powerful. After a use or two though, I develop a tolerance to the histamine response though and it goes away.

Also, expanding on my previous point on The Mahavishnu Orchestra, check out Birds of Fire, specifically the track 'One Word'. Fucking amazing.

I am basically incapable of getting high from codeine, I am prescribed Vicodin for pain from a high fall, I had been using Percocet but was just stepped down to vicodin, which on its own does next to nothing for my pain. Just to get the level of pain killing I am accustomed to getting from percocet I have been taking a booster dose of 180mg of Dihydrocodeine with my 10mg of hydrocodone + 1000mg apap. I have tried doing the same booster with codeine to no avail. However I would take the codeine booster over no booster at all.

I have also read that there is supposedly no ceiling dose of DHC, however I find that after taking 2 180mg doses in a day I am no longer able to get any effectiveness from any subsequent doses beyond the 360mg I have already taken for the day. I am wondering if I am depleting CYP2D6 enzymes and therefore not able to get any further analgesia from any doses beyond two 180mg doses of DHC.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ You may be one of those people who are CYP2D6 poor-metabolizers; hence why little analgesia and euphoria from codeine but overt histamine response.

Theoretically there is no metabolic ceiling dose for DHC as it itself is the active substance, compared to codeine which must be converted to morphine for example. However other substances which themselves are active, e.g. buprenorphine, have ceiling doses beyond which there is little to be gained therapeutically nor recreation wise. This may be the case with DHC?

I used to read neuropharmacology texts religiously and do a lot of research into substances, but it's been a while and a lot of bad episodes since then. I can't remember if DHC does have a non-metabolic ceiling dose and if repeated doses on it are worthwhile or not.

 

[Moral Decay]

^ You may be one of those people who are CYP2D6 poor-metabolizers; hence why little analgesia and euphoria from codeine but overt histamine response.

Theoretically there is no metabolic ceiling dose for DHC as it itself is the active substance, compared to codeine which must be converted to morphine for example. However other substances which themselves are active, e.g. buprenorphine, have ceiling doses beyond which there is little to be gained therapeutically nor recreation wise. This may be the case with DHC?

I used to read neuropharmacology texts religiously and do a lot of research into substances, but it's been a while and a lot of bad episodes since then. I can't remember if DHC does have a non-metabolic ceiling dose and if repeated doses on it are worthwhile or not.

well I do find that DHC is active itself, however it is either a partial or full pro-drug. It does have an immediate effect; a very stimulating euphoriant effect that coems on about one hour after consumption however, it's effectiveness seems to peak with very sedating and relaxing effects at about 3 hours and continue until about 6 hours until starting to subside. I do know that DHC metabolizes into Dihydromorphine which is a powerful opioid. In fact I am about 90 certain that DHC is at least a partial Pro-drug.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ It is partial in so far that some of it is converted to other substances which are active, however these are in such tiny amounts that I doubt it is doing anything. I'll see if I can dig up a study or something showing roughly what the approximate metabolism to active substances is.

Another thing to remember is that DHC is more resistant to metabolism, hence it's longer half-life then codeine.

 

[Moral Decay]

^ It is partial in so far that some of it is converted to other substances which are active, however these are in such tiny amounts that I doubt it is doing anything. I'll see if I can dig up a study or something showing roughly what the approximate metabolism to active substances is.

Another thing to remember is that DHC is more resistant to metabolism, hence it's longer half-life then codeine.

thanks friend I appreciate the knowledge. =)

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ This article here shows that a lot of what is excreted ends up being various forms of DHC (conjugated or unconjugated DHC and norDHC). It also gives some idea of how much is converted to dihydromorphine in CYP2D6 extensive and poor metabolizers.

 

[Moral Decay]

^ This article here shows that a lot of what is excreted ends up being various forms of DHC (conjugated or unconjugated DHC and norDHC). It also gives some idea of how much is converted to dihydromorphine in CYP2D6 extensive and poor metabolizers.

That is very interesting, so basically there is no difference of action in extensive or poor metabolizers. They both had the same level of excretions after consumption of the same amounts of the parent drug and its metabolites. Which would indicate that it is not getting its action from the metabolites dihydrocodiene. That is surprising to me to find out the parent drug is the primary active.

Also that site has a lot of useful information on opiates.

 

[leigh12]

aint had much time for bl these days but i had to log in to share this lol

this goose who works with me n my mate sometimes , thinks hes a drug know it all etc
hes pretty young , lil bitch type etc

anyway , he was crappn on bout these 40mg codeine only pills he has a stash of

knowing pretty well they didnt make 40mg codeine only pills here
i tell him to bring sum in n il buy sum if theyr legit , for a very very ridiculous stupid low price mind u

2 days later , he rocks up with a lil bag half full of these lil orange round pills that lookd slightly familiar
i take a closer look , theyr fukn oc40s haha stupid cunt

but yeh , good score i guess

thats my 2 cents


p.s mr blonde i see ur back , good shit

 

[MrIbis]

^lol OC40s.. for cheap. win win win

 

[Mr Blonde]

aint had much time for bl these days but i had to log in to share this lol

this goose who works with me n my mate sometimes , thinks hes a drug know it all etc
hes pretty young , lil bitch type etc

anyway , he was crappn on bout these 40mg codeine only pills he has a stash of

knowing pretty well they didnt make 40mg codeine only pills here
i tell him to bring sum in n il buy sum if theyr legit , for a very very ridiculous stupid low price mind u

2 days later , he rocks up with a lil bag half full of these lil orange round pills that lookd slightly familiar
i take a closer look , theyr fukn oc40s haha stupid cunt

but yeh , good score i guess

thats my 2 cents


p.s mr blonde i see ur back , good shit

Ha ha ha no fucking way, awesome score there brother.

Cheers, it's good to be back.

 

[Sustanon]

Id have a question for u guys. What are sum really good brands to consider that actually work with the CWE? I always have used Chemist own and found these to work very well. I havnt seen any 24 packs of them in the pharmacy so wondering what is a good substitute for them? What do u guys use that comes in 24s? Nurofens are the worst to CWE from. If this is breaching the guidelines then a PM would be highly appreciated about the preferred brand. Cheers.

 

[Crankinit]

I've yet to find a brand that doesn't CWE fairly easily, tbh.

 

[face__]

i am no moderator but imho discussing which brand will filter better and in turn cause less harm is very much in the realms of Harm reduction.

mersyndol (obviously day time) does not filter well, i can tell you that much. you may have already answered your own question. it appears the general consensus of the bluelight cwe club's first choice is chemists own .

on my next allowed codeine indulgence i am going to evaporate and weigh the filtrate to see just how much crap does get through our crude extractions.

 

[Crankinit]

Really? I've had no problem with the mersyndol, though they take a while to dissolve.