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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Codeine End of the Line?

J

Jacko123

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
10
I think I may already know the answer to this but wondered if anybody out there could correct me. I currently use 96x 8/500 co-cos Cwe, but they litterally no longer touch me. I'm taking a maximal dose of 768mg less yield loss in extraction. My question is can I go higher or is it time to switch or stop? Worried about taking too much as I'm already near what I believe LD50 to be so quit, increase or switch?
 
The LD50 is a pretty inaccurate way of measuring toxicity, due to factors varying so wildly among individuals, as well as tolerance.

I think you've probably just hit the ceiling in terms of tolerance, may be worth switching to a stronger opi.
 
I'd be more concerned about the APAP if I were you. Even doing a CWE, even a good CWE, likely cannot extract enough of the APAP in those pills for the safety of your liver. Whether or not the codeine is touching you, I would stop using 96 8/500 pills daily even with CWE. You aren't in danger of codeine OD, because you are obviously tolerant, but who knows about APAP OD. So yes, quit or switch.
 
Thanks for you reply but not sure I follow your logic on cwe/apap front. So if I do three sperate cwe's, each on 32 tabs with 50ml of water in each kept at 3 degrees, there simply isn't sufficent volume of water or temperature dissolve enough apap to be harmful. If you are talking of continuous use e.g. As understood it arthritis suffers take 4gms apap for life with no negative effects.? I pretty surre my method is pretty sound, certainly nowhere near 4gm, it would be far too visible, and I don't think I would be typing this now.
 
Jacko123 said:
Thanks for you reply but not sure I follow your logic on cwe/apap front. So if I do three sperate cwe's, each on 32 tabs with 50ml of water in each kept at 3 degrees, there simply isn't sufficent volume of water or temperature dissolve enough apap to be harmful. If you are talking of continuous use e.g. As understood it arthritis suffers take 4gms apap for life with no negative effects.? I pretty surre my method is pretty sound, certainly nowhere near 4gm, it would be far too visible, and I don't think I would be typing this now.
Click to expand...

There are many people out there who consume large amounts of APAP without any apparent problems, and then they end up in liver failure, and die. And APAP is over-used, and over-rx'd. Taking any substantial amount for prolonged periods of time is not really healthy for the liver. I am just saying, be careful, it can be undetected until it is far too late. So it wouldn't necessarily be visible. In any event, the codeine is not cutting it, so switching or quitting is likely best.
 
^This isn't wrong.

Alex000 said:
I'd be more concerned about the APAP if I were you. Even doing a CWE, even a good CWE, likely cannot extract enough of the APAP in those pills for the safety of your liver.
Click to expand...

^This kindof is. APAP's solubility is 1g/100ml of water at room temp regardless of how you look at it. If you extracted 100ml of water from a kilogram of APAP you would still only get 1g of APAP in the final solution. I agree that the OP needs to change their ways and I agree that even 1g per day of APAP is not a good idea (and that is assuming ideal filtration), however saying a CWE likely cannot extract enough of the APAP from those pills to be safe looks like you are putting the problem on the extraction method (by implying it is a gamble [likely]) and emphasising it is a function of the intial amount of APAP [those pills] which it is most definitely not.
 
Hi thanks for the advice seriously, I know this is about HR. But here in the UK the MHRA (simliar to FDA in US) state that as long as APAP is used with daily guidlines for an adult, 4g then prolonged or long term use is harmless. Just like alcohol. Only slight contradicitions if using with blood thining agents such as Warfrin which I'm not on and don't drink. There is no way in the world there is anywhere near 4gms of APAP in a CWE. As the poster further up says it solubility is a approximately 1g/150ml and that I believe is at 21 degrees. So assuming my solution held as much APAP as it could on that basis there could only be a maximum of 1gm in mine. If there were 4gms it would be like paint or it would be in 600ml of water and even then would be safe.

In a UK hospital you won't be adminsitered NAC with a single ingestion of less thant 10gm. So I think there is a littel bot of ignorance generally about prolonged use of APAP as it is often used daily on a prescribed basis and is evidenced as being fine for prolonged use in safe limits. Just like a glass of wine a night is ok, a bottle and you'll pay for it.
 
Jacko123 said:
Hi thanks for the advice seriously, I know this is about HR. But here in the UK the MHRA (simliar to FDA in US) state that as long as APAP is used with daily guidlines for an adult, 4g then prolonged or long term use is harmless. Just like alcohol .. So I think there is a littel bot of ignorance generally about prolonged use of APAP as it is often used daily on a prescribed basis and is evidenced as being fine for prolonged use in safe limits. Just like a glass of wine a night is ok, a bottle and you'll pay for it.
Click to expand...

Hnnngh, I just cringed a little. I'll see if I can dig up some citations, but 4g of paracetamol daily is definitely not going to be completely harmless over a prolonged period of time, and you will never find a doctor that gives more than 1g APAP in one go.
 
I believe they are even considering lowering the max daily dose to 3g. Don't forget this is DAILY dose. The single dose is much lower.

Anyway if you can just quit the codiene then I guess that would be your best bet but it's not as simple as that. Your basically asking do you want to continue your addiction and take it to the next step with a stronger opiate, or do you want to quit before that. So good luck with what you decide.
 
The APAP is not really the issue though, it is the codeine...

Take up fitness, the high you get off a good workout is on par with a good codeine high!


How often do you dose?
 
I would seriously consider lowering your dose or try to use dihydrocodeine(check the dose amount as I have never tried it) as it is a bit stronger and is available in the UK. tapering your dose over a week or two so that you can get away with 200mg-300mg is something you should consider.I know it's difficult to do at first but it gets easier and saves you the trouble of not having to constantly hop pharmacies to avoid suspicion.

stay safe :)
 
tolerance.
I use codeine regularly too. 400mg i dunno why i do it. it barely does anything but the slight sense of well being i get from it is worth it I suppose. same with benzos. they dont work no more. I havnt had any in weeks. I just had 250mg of temazepam & feel less than i do from cwe.
an
anyways u should take a break. & start taking milk thistle for the slightly soluble apap if u wanna continue

opiates mimic the effects of endorphins which u can get from exercise. wish i wasnt so lazy though.
 
How much does it cost you for 96 pills a day? Also, you should try something stronger like vicodin or perhaps take a break since you are not using opiates for pain.......see if your tolerance comes down.
 
I can still catch a nice, warm and euphoric buzz off liquid codeine with promethazine. The promethazine definitely does wonders for potentiating the codeine even with my ridiculous tolerance (and I'm one who prefers oxymorph, diesel, oxycodone, fentanyl, hydromorph, and morphine). I don't know where you live, but if you decided that you'd like to continue your recreational usage of opiates it's time for an upgrade along the lines of: DHC, hydrocodone, or oxycodone. Not to support an opiate habit, but if you don't wanna' stop you're not going to. Be safe, remember opioid addiction can turn into a living hell.
 
Some people respond to codeine some don't. You have to have a specific enzyme in your body to break it down. Once all the enzymes are saturated, you can not get any higher. It has a platoe (sp?) or ceiling that you reach and it won't do anything else. Say the platoe is 400mg and you take 1000mg you will feel no different. The rest is just wasted.
 
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