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Codeine & CWE (aka cdub) Megathread: third time's the charm

Well you could collect up all your codeine modify it with an intermediatory reaction and add it to a basic Red white and blue and cook up some tasty crokodile! sounds tasty. This is of course tongue in cheek but WTF.

Of couse if you were a real chemist codeine can be converted into morphine and then diamorphine.
 
dude codeine is codiene. how can a codiene only pill vs a codiene/apap be stronger. its the same drug.
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I'm saying that when I make a CWE that should supposedly end up with 700mg of codeine, I'm sure that there isn't really 700mg of codeine in there at the end. Some of it gets lost on the way: soaked up in the filter, break down while in solution during temperature changes, stuck in the filler material and left over paracetamol, etc.

I doubt that even a meticulously done CWE gets %100 of the codeine out. What i'm curious about, is just how much is lost and how subjectively different it would feel to do an equivalent amount of pure codeine VS the same target amount via a CWE.

Just what captain Brewster said.

And this part of my post:

Although I think my technique is pretty good, there's no doubt that a lot of codeine gets lost during the process. At least, I think it does; hence, I'd like to try pure codeine.
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EDIT:
Of couse if you were a real chemist codeine can be converted into morphine and then diamorphine.
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Don't think I haven't dreamed about that.... ahh... dirty, dirty dreams.... =D
 
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i knew what you meant, it was just worded wrongly and easily misunderstood from my viewpoint. just being pedantic.

ive been prescribed the tablets containing codiene only. tiny white suckers.

the cwe, if performed right, doesnt really lose much in the end when compared to an equal dose of codiene pills. the pills come in packs of 20, 30mg codiene.
 
I wish there were a way of testing how much codeine is retained after a cwe. And para, for that matter.

Edit; as for subjective effect, I'd call placebo on any differences...personally I've tried the pure ones your talkin about tent and I thought they were stronger but codeine is codeine is codeine ya know
 
yeah id call placebo in most instances, but its still a little hit n miss effects wise for me. its not uncommon for a 1200mg dose to give a better high than 1800mg.
and thats taking the larger dose a day or two prior the larger.

in no way do i condone such high doses to anyone. as ive been on pain mgmnt 9 yrs i have a solid and high tolerance to opioids in general.
 
I've had pure codeine tablets before, back when I was CWEing a lot and they certainly felt a lot stronger than the equivelant dose of codeine extracted via CWE. Maybe I was just shit at it.
 
^No, I doubt you were shit at CWE. I've heard this same comment numerous times, which is what leads me to believe that it's possible a fair bit of codeine is lost during the process.

I wish there were a way of testing how much codeine is retained after a cwe.
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Yes, I would love to know the precise answer to that!


the cwe, if performed right, doesnt really lose much in the end when compared to an equal dose of codiene pills.
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THat's based on your subjective experience, right? I guess for someone such as yourself, 100mg or even 200mg of codeine in a solution of 1200mg might not be particularly noticeable. For someone with a much lesser tolerance, it could make a substantial difference in, say, a 500mg extraction.


personally I've tried the pure ones your talkin about tent and I thought they were stronger but codeine is codeine is codeine ya know
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I know that codeine is codeine. I'm not sure how I caused such confusion on what I was trying to ask. I'm not saying that the drug changes during extraction, I'm just wondering how much codeine is lost while performing a CWE. Is it something negligable, like 10% or something hefty like 40%. Obviously it depends on a bunch of factors; CWE technique, method of storage (if stored at all), type of filters used, etc.


And Tentram: Please calm down a bit. You come across as being quite contentious sometimes. I have read a bit about your suffering through chronic pain, and that wouldn't leave you in a great physical and mental state, I imagine. But people have their issues. Let's try and be patient with each other.


This:

dude codeine is codiene. how can a codiene only pill vs a codiene/apap be stronger. its the same drug.
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followed by this:

i knew what you meant, it was just worded wrongly and easily misunderstood from my viewpoint.
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Doesn't make sense. Why did you ask what I was getting at, and then say that you knew what I meant? Did you you understand it or not? And where was it worded "wrongly". What should it have said? I thought it was fairly clear.

Your posts often have an arugumentative tone that is off-putting. Everyone's allowed to be who they are. I just thought you should know that you sometimes come across being angry and argumentative without reason.

Take care
 
Captain Brewster said:
....Now, with plugging.
I initially thought codeine had to do a first pass metabolise through the liver, then on into the bloodstream. With plugging it hits your bloodstream first, before the liver. It will eventually get to your liver but from what I've read/heard it can effect it's potential high(please correct me if I'm way off here).
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Codeine is a prodrug - it must be pass through the first pass metabolism to have any significant effect (basic physiology). From the intestines the absorbed compound + blood (+ other goodies) just travel from the small intestine (particularly from the duodenum or to a lesser extent jejunum), via the port vein to the liver (to be fully metabolized - following the basic acronym A.D.M.E). While IR will eventually make it to the liver, PO is the best route in this instances (minus the issues of the acidic environment of the stomach [by the time it passes the pyloric sphincter into the small intestines the environmental pH is ~6.5).



indybreaker said:
......now everytime ive done a cwe ive felt next to nothing.......
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All the drugs you've mentioned are metabolised by different enzymes. So it doesn't surprise me that you've found a drug which you cannot metabolise. 10%-12% of the Caucasian population (different percentages for different races, won't go into here). Essentially you're a hypometaboliser of codine. Which means that the enzyme you're body creates (due to multiple reasons. I can go into details but if this explanation will suffice than great! :) ) is either deficient or non-existent (less common). This means that your body is unable to metabolise codeine to morphine which is where you get all those wonderful effects (codeine, as I said being a "prodrug", means that it itself have no biological activity). So essentially, you take codeine, you're body cannot metabolise it, it hangs around in our system for while until it is expelled (while this "hanging around" occurs damage to cells/tissues/organs may or maybe not coming damaged, this is still up for debate).

First piece of advice; don't both taking codeine to try to get high! It wont work and more than likely is causing damage.

Second; go to your doctor, say you've noticed codeine doesn't have any effect on you and ask for a genetics test. The reasons for this is the two biotransformational pathways codeine is used to convert to morphine (an enzyme called CYP2D6 and a reaction called Glucuronidation) are both HIGHLY expressed yet with wildly varying phenotypes cause issues like this. The only reason I say (although I don't wish to alarm you!) to see your local GP is that many, many drugs are metabolised by the CYP2D6 isoenzyme which could lead to possible problems later in life.

Have a look at the links (I know they're only wiki, but a good starting point). Might be something you're interested in.
 
tyrael said:
Codeine is a prodrug - it must be pass through the first pass metabolism to have any significant effect (basic physiology). From the intestines the absorbed compound + blood (+ other goodies) just travel from the small intestine (particularly from the duodenum or to a lesser extent jejunum), via the port vein to the liver (to be fully metabolized - following the basic acronym A.D.M.E). While IR will eventually make it to the liver, PO is the best route in this instances (minus the issues of the acidic environment of the stomach [by the time it passes the pyloric sphincter into the small intestines the environmental pH is ~6.
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Okay, cheers for the clarification. I'm not studying or have any type of profession in the medical field. So just to clarify,

PO- has something to do with the oral route.

IR- I thought this meant 'instant release', you seem to have termed it for rectal administration (correct?).

And one last thing, A.D.M.E., wtf? I mean, save me from the lecture if it's unneeded information. If it is unneeded, does it require to be posted?

Not having a crack, just genuinely interested.


EDIT: okay, I got off my lazy arse and had a look:

ADME is an abbreviation in pharmacokinetics and pharmacology for absorption, distribution, metabolism, and excretion, and describes the disposition of a pharmaceutical compound within an organism. The four criteria all influence the drug levels and kinetics of drug exposure to the tissues and hence influence the performance and pharmacological activity of the compound as a drug.

Thanks again Tyrael ;)
 
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halif - contentious? i think more talking straight and clearing things up for other people reading, who might misunderstand. talking in a frank manner can be confused as such.

and yes that was subjectively speaking. i suppose youre right.


if you cant see how that could be confusing to read i wont bother to explain for fear of arguments sake.

dont bring outside factors, my pain, into this. it has nothing to do with anything. talking straight is talking straight.

sorry for the confusion.
 
Hey everyone, don't forget that we're all mates here.

Tent, Halif has a point with recent posts from you. It's not your usual posting style. Your factual and obviously experienced in the subjects we all post on, and I respect that. But recently some of your posts have come across with a slightly angry attitude.

It can put people off, and I think Halif was just pointing that out.

Look, your both decent people that know a heap about our subject matters, and I wouldn't want either of you to stop posting here, the more the merrier.

So, anyway, on with the CWE talk.
 
i just said theres no intended attitude on my behalf. if you still want to read it that way thats your problem.

sarcasm is misconveyed as anger all too often over the internet too.

what posts in particular do you mean so i can fine tune things.
 
^ just back a page there where some comments towards IM and pseudo that showed a bit of anger toward them, usually you'd put your humour to work on these, and your good at that, thats what where use to.

And look, I understand if people are in bad moods, happens to everybody. I hadent brought it up till now because I have a bit of tolerance for people in shitty moods. Happens to me quite a bit (I mean being angry).

Not having a go buddy, it's just that you asked.
 
^uhhh.... just slam a bag of dope?

That's not great advice for a harm reduction thread. Besides, this is the thread dedicated to talking about CWEs. People who want to do that come here to get the information on how to do it safely.

Compared to people who are shooting heroin, the demographic of people who are using/addicted to codeine is far, far broader. A lot of middle aged people find themselves slowly and unconsciously getting themselves addicted to the codeine in painkillers which are sold in every pharmacy. Often, they don't know what's in them exactly, or why they are taking so many. Some of them realise it's the codeine and they do some research and discover that taking handfuls of tablet which contain loads of paracetamol or ibuprofen is really bad for your organs, and then some of those discover the CWE method.

A lot of those people have families and are deeply ashamed of being addicted, and the last thing they want is to think of themselves as an addict. Sadly, some of them just ignore the facts even after finding out how dangerous taking the whole tablets is, and continue doing it because they think moving on to CWEs is akin to turning into a junkie or something.

So advising people on a site which gets a lot of guest traffic to 'just slam a bag dope' isn't very productive.

You might as well tell them to get some crack and smoke that to counter the sedation from the H if they have busy lives and families to take care of.
 
fair enough capt, but again so its clear to everyone, theres been no anger intently directed to anyone. sorry for the confusion. ill be sure to throw a few smilies here n there.

and yeah theres a distinct rule of not advising anyone to go injecting anything. its not in the interest of harm reduction as halif said. either edit or delete that crap and save the mods having to clean up your shit.
 
evilbrain said:
wow cwe.... sounds like a big f*ckin pain in the ass.... just slam a bag a dope or crush some 30's and youre good
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Harm reduction?? Does not sound like you have much to say about Harm reduction. Maybe next time your supply of H is dwindling follow your own suggestions and see if you get some lovely cellulitis or compartment syndrome as I suspect you use cigarette butt's as a filter? Please prove me wrong and reduce the drain on our health system by not occupying a bed with afore mentioned conditions. Thank you.
 
Has anyone any information on the safety of 'Sodium metabisulfite' which is contained in Aspirin/Codeine? Obviously this does not get filtered out with a CWE so swim was wondering is this stuff potentially hazardous?
 
Just a question about opiate potentate, i am aware of hyoscine in travacalm ho, dxm in robo dry cough forte but that's it.
I do know of promethazine but looked it up and seems to be script only, are there any other drugs i can use to potentate my opiates? also like what its for, like i get travacalm lots and i just say i get motion sickness easy.
 
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