I'm not sure if this should go here or in BDD, but I know that different pills are coated for different reasons. Drugs like Ibuprofen are coated because the medication therein is harmful to your stomach; whereas, some drugs are coated so that they don't break down in the stomach and can fully absorb as they move through your intestines (like my pantaprazole which is a proton pump inhibitor used for GERD). Now my question: I was wondering if I could increase the absorption rate of my Tramadol without decreasing the amount absorbed by removing the paper-like coating from them and crushing them into a powder. Is this coating on the pills to protect my stomach or to insure that as much of the drug as possible makes it into my bloodstream?
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Opioids Coated Pills
- Thread starter Doug2113
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nAON
Bluelight Crew
It should say on the packet what it's actually coated for, whether its a gastro-resistant coating or an extended release. Usually, the coating doesn't change the amount absorbed, but rather slows down the absorption rate. If you crush it down, the effects will probably hit a faster and harder, but the effect won't last as long.
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
I would get really sick when crushing my tramadol up before bombing them. It makes them much stronger, (Dope-sick)
Well I know it's not an extended release pill, that's for sure. So crushing 100mg down would make them hit harder? They just don't do what I need them to do (I don't take these for pleasure, I use them medicinally lol), and I won't get anything for breakthrough (I'm assuming it's either gonna be Tylenol 3/4s or Hydrocodone) until Nov 8 when I pass a drug screen at my doctors office. So do you think they would make me sick if 100mg normally doesn't really affect the way I feel at all except through relieve pain?
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
only one way to find out...
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
I remember doing this with 2 50mg tablets and getting incredibly ill. Probably with a 20-25mg Hydrocodone tolerance at the time. Then again, it is OTC in south america, and when I was there I was cruising around bombing up to 400mg of powdered tramadol at a time.
Do you really get something out of Tramadol? I've taken up to 250mg over the course of about an hour because I was hurting really bad and still got nothing but pain relief from it. Granted, I tried Dilaudid the other day to be very disappointed. Railed 4mg and got nothing but pain relief and was a little bit more talkative. No euphoria, let alone a nod. Watched a few friends blow down 1mg and feel something. Maybe I just needed to do more...like double what I did....... Highly aggravating to say the least. Well, I just tried crushing the tramadols up-didn't bother with using a piece of 1-ply toilet paper, just threw it down the hatch. We'll see what happens. And I always understood "dope-sick" to mean the withdrawal symptoms you get from ceasing dosing of opioids. What exactly did you mean? lol
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Too much opioids will make you feel unpleasantly sick.
Crushing pills in general makes them absorb much faster and produces a "stronger" effect because the drug does not have to dissolve/disperse in your stomach.
Crushing pills in general makes them absorb much faster and produces a "stronger" effect because the drug does not have to dissolve/disperse in your stomach.
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
sick from too much opiates. Usually (at least with the people I run with) Dope-Sick is sick from doing too much opiates, "The Sickness" is withdrawals.
I am pretty fond of tramadol (going to get kicked off staff for saying that) - I am now on Dilaudids for pain management and I like them - they aren't super recreational and are no doubt the crack of opiates, but they work well for me.
I am pretty fond of tramadol (going to get kicked off staff for saying that) - I am now on Dilaudids for pain management and I like them - they aren't super recreational and are no doubt the crack of opiates, but they work well for me.
Crushed two of them, about 2 hours ago. Went riding back roads with brother-in-law and went up trails. Only time I remember any type of nauseated feeling was going up a 55-60 degree incline that was bumpy as shit after slamming 3 beers lol. Incline was probably a good 50-60 ft change in elevation. First time going and doing shit like that. Was intense as shit lol. I think I've gotten sick from opioids once, and that was after dropping 3 Norcos at once and then snorting another an hour later lol. This was when I was still fairly new at taking them. Was driving down a back road leaving from picking up some bud. This was probably about an hour after snorting that last norco. Had to pull over, puke a bit, wait a second, puke some more, and then just pure bliss lol. Amazing euphoria. One of the strongest opioid experiences I had other than undergoing general anesthesia and getting shot up with Morphine in the ER. I think the first time I did oxy beat it, but it was damn close lol.
On the dilaudid, I've heard it's supposed to be AMAZING. Maybe that's just when you bang it. I was just completely disappointed with it though as far as recreational value goes. Maybe I over psyched myself over it-expected too much from it. Or maybe my tolerance is just that high lol.
On the dilaudid, I've heard it's supposed to be AMAZING. Maybe that's just when you bang it. I was just completely disappointed with it though as far as recreational value goes. Maybe I over psyched myself over it-expected too much from it. Or maybe my tolerance is just that high lol.
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
I actually get IV dilaudid HP ampules from my doctor. it is sorta recreational, if you consider a 30 second rush followed by pain relief recreational. Dilaudid is pretty much all rush, no legs.
I do %) ...
Seriously though, DD may be the crack of opiates, but goddamn, is that 30 seconds good. Actually, I keep a good speedy buzz for about 30 minutes afterward, but I still just wanna keep bangin till it's gone! Not worth it, but then again, what is? Wish I could get a hold of Opana IR though. I've heard oxymorphone has some length to it, and of course it's more potent than hydromorphone. I can just imagine how much better oxycodone is than hydrocodone, and then apply that to the morphones. But anyway...
DOUGLAS my man! Yo! hizzy!?!?!?!?! No seriously, though, the reason you didn't enjoy DD is because you have to IV it, for any kind of high. Note that it isn't just an issue with BA. Even if you snort an equivalent dose, it won't be anything like IV. But as muvolution said, it is just a 30 second rush followed by a nice, but dirty buzz(well, dirty to me anyway) which is really underwhelming once you get accustomed to it. Though that rush is a fucking orgasm, it has the same problem that actual orgasms have.(And is even shorter, though takes much less work!)
Just remember that hydrocodone is a pro-drug. ALL(or practically all) of it's effects come from being converted into hydromorphone. I don't know the exact figure of how much is converted, but it is somewhere in the area of 5-10%. S basically you can multiply any given dose of Dilaudid to get a good idea of the effects you'll get.
In your case, 4mg snorted with a BA of around 50% yields 2mg absorbed, multiply by 10-20, you get an equivalent hydrocodone dose of 20-40mg. But then you have to account for a loss of BA when swallowing the hydro. Now we don't know for sure the BA of hydro, but we can assume it is similar to oxycodone, so most likely, your getting 60-80% of any given hydro dose. All in all, I would estimate 2mg nasal as being between 30-60mg hydrocodone, depending on your body's ability to metabolize it.
I am sorry for making that overly detailed. It's just that I've noticed a lot of people disappointed lately when taking it(people who don't IV, that is) and would just like to get the point across that chemically, it is just the end result of hydrocodone. Obviously it's stronger, and also hydrocodone can have it's own subjective effects that can make it different than straight H-morphone, but ultimately, if you have any kind of hydro-tolerance(which you do) then you can't expect much of anything from DD, unless you ingest large amounts, in which case, it should be like high dose H-codone,(though I personally haven't doses H-morphone orally like that) or go the the needle, in which case you'll practically cum yourself, but will otherwise be underwhelmed, though apparently pain-free!
Seriously though, DD may be the crack of opiates, but goddamn, is that 30 seconds good. Actually, I keep a good speedy buzz for about 30 minutes afterward, but I still just wanna keep bangin till it's gone! Not worth it, but then again, what is? Wish I could get a hold of Opana IR though. I've heard oxymorphone has some length to it, and of course it's more potent than hydromorphone. I can just imagine how much better oxycodone is than hydrocodone, and then apply that to the morphones. But anyway...
DOUGLAS my man! Yo! hizzy!?!?!?!?! No seriously, though, the reason you didn't enjoy DD is because you have to IV it, for any kind of high. Note that it isn't just an issue with BA. Even if you snort an equivalent dose, it won't be anything like IV. But as muvolution said, it is just a 30 second rush followed by a nice, but dirty buzz(well, dirty to me anyway) which is really underwhelming once you get accustomed to it. Though that rush is a fucking orgasm, it has the same problem that actual orgasms have.(And is even shorter, though takes much less work!)
Just remember that hydrocodone is a pro-drug. ALL(or practically all) of it's effects come from being converted into hydromorphone. I don't know the exact figure of how much is converted, but it is somewhere in the area of 5-10%. S basically you can multiply any given dose of Dilaudid to get a good idea of the effects you'll get.
In your case, 4mg snorted with a BA of around 50% yields 2mg absorbed, multiply by 10-20, you get an equivalent hydrocodone dose of 20-40mg. But then you have to account for a loss of BA when swallowing the hydro. Now we don't know for sure the BA of hydro, but we can assume it is similar to oxycodone, so most likely, your getting 60-80% of any given hydro dose. All in all, I would estimate 2mg nasal as being between 30-60mg hydrocodone, depending on your body's ability to metabolize it.
I am sorry for making that overly detailed. It's just that I've noticed a lot of people disappointed lately when taking it(people who don't IV, that is) and would just like to get the point across that chemically, it is just the end result of hydrocodone. Obviously it's stronger, and also hydrocodone can have it's own subjective effects that can make it different than straight H-morphone, but ultimately, if you have any kind of hydro-tolerance(which you do) then you can't expect much of anything from DD, unless you ingest large amounts, in which case, it should be like high dose H-codone,(though I personally haven't doses H-morphone orally like that) or go the the needle, in which case you'll practically cum yourself, but will otherwise be underwhelmed, though apparently pain-free!
Fire&Water
Bluelighter
Slamming 3 brews on top of swallowed powder'ed pills will make alot of people hurl...
Vaya
Bluelight Crew
My first time trying Dilaudid was snorting a 2mg pill, and I remember being able to realize I had taken an opioid (the slight fuzziness behind the eyes was there) but being hugely disappointed in terms of euphoria (as you said, most people generally feel this way if you dont IV them). My next couple of experiences were IV'ing half of an 8mg tab each time, so 4mg/shot mixed with cocaine, and the dilaudid wiped the floor with the coke each time. And for me, the rush lasted much longer than 30 seconds... I remember nodding out hard for at least an hour per time I got hit, with good sensations for another 1-1.5 hours after that. The last time I used it, though, I was out of rigs and knew that snorting it would be a complete waste, so I weighed my options and ended up plugging 4mg twice in a day. And let me say, DAY-UM there is no other way besides IV'ing the things to do hydromorphone. There's even an intense rush associated with plugging them and it lasts way longer than slamming it. So, since the topic came up, I thought I'd share my successful experience with that ROA. Really, really well worth it.
~ vaya
^ That's good to know, I like cohesive anecdotal reports such as those(and hopefully most here do!) as, in spite of all of the knowledge one can obtain, you don't really know something until you try it. That said, the rectal BA of hydromorphone is exactly the same as oral; both yield 30-35%, vs nasal, which(supposedly) gives 50%. So in your individual case, rectal was the next best MOA, but for most people, snorting would probably be preferred, since the BA is (supposedly) doubled.
The reason I keep saying "supposedly" is nasal frankly doesn't feel half the strength of IV, and I actually KNOW HOW to snort effectively.(you'd be surprised how many people really don't) But, so goes the old adage, "Everyone is different".
The reason I keep saying "supposedly" is nasal frankly doesn't feel half the strength of IV, and I actually KNOW HOW to snort effectively.(you'd be surprised how many people really don't) But, so goes the old adage, "Everyone is different".
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
yeah, it is the best rush ever. Better than H. Better than Opana. I was getting Opana IR's for quite a while and mixing up a shot of opana in the same barrel as dilaudid is one hell of a treat.
^Oh I bet. This is off-topic, and it certainly isn't harm reduction, but... if ya don't mind, is oxymorphone all it's cracked up too be? As you said, the rush isn't as good as the godly dilaudid rush, but I have heard oxymorphone is just a longer, more intense high, and more enjoyable in general. Which would make sense, based strictly off the merits of oxy vs. hydro... But alas, the only person I know has Opana ER 10mg, which aren't worth the trouble...
(I also don't see how people snort that shit, because it literally just gelled up in my nose and didn't do shit. And by the time I found out about the alcohol extraction, I had <10mg, and apparently the alcohol technique destroyed most of the pill, because I barely got anything.
(I also don't see how people snort that shit, because it literally just gelled up in my nose and didn't do shit. And by the time I found out about the alcohol extraction, I had <10mg, and apparently the alcohol technique destroyed most of the pill, because I barely got anything.
IndustrialStrength
Bluelighter
Now I'm quite intrigued here. I've never had the pleasure of combining the 2 but apparently we differ.
Though before we go any further I must say I'm quite jealous I'd love to try that treat!
I've only had limited experience with Hydromorphone & never the vials only the pills.
However I've always found that Oxymorphone has a better rush & much longer legs.
For the Oxymorphone I like you was using the 10mg IR's. Though in retrospect as I type this it's quite likely dose dependent.
As with Hydromorphone I've had less experience. I've done a few 8mg shots with an underwhelming rush.
Went up to 16mg & had a decent rush, have done that dose a few times as well. Usually I go with 24mg & get a good rush from that.
Sadly enough the highest dosage I've had the opportunity to do at once is that regular 24mg so that might bias my comparison.
Where as with Oxymorphone I have more access & usually do 20mg shots for a decent rush with a minor buzz that lasts a few hours.
The rush from that being comparable to a 24mg Hydromorphone shot though usually a bit better in my experience.
If I'm trying to get high I'd do 35-40mg of Oxymorphone & get a great rush with a nod & a halfway decent length high.
Considering the potency differences I'm not only doing more Oxymorphone but equivalency wise a lot more opiates!
So perhaps I'm just not giving Hydromorphone enough of a chance. Perhaps I'm just dosing to low when comparing it to Oxymorphone.
I guess I'll have to try higher doses of Hydromorphone & see if it is better. As for me I've always felt the opposite...
That Hydromorphone isn't all that it's cracked up to be & that Oxymorphone has a better rush with longers legs.
The legs being comparable to Heroin perhaps a bit shorter. Where as with Hydromorphone there's just no legs at all.
Obviously everyone is different but since lorne was asking I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in as well.
Edit: In case it wasn't obvious I'm referring to IV usage.
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muvolution
Bluelight Crew
alright... this has run its course and is thoroughly OT, i am closing it, there is a BDD social discussion with CANE & EFFIE, for are your socialising needs.
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