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Closest RC to MDMA?

CaptainKratom said:
Haha, that made me chuckle. Maybe your just too cool for the needle? ;)
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Lol, man, I've seen peeps shoot up heroin...it looks super intense but when I see that needle going in, my skin crawls and I turn away. It doesn't help that I hate needles in general. I get really anxious and my heart rate goes through the roof. People offer but I always decline, I just wouldn't be able to handle it, haha.

I wish there was a way to take some stuff (k, coke, heroin) by putting it in a lil pussy gel cap, lolol. Too bad that doesn't work.
 
CaptainKratom said:
I would argue otherwise.



First time I've heard this, are you sure what you received was legit 6-apb? I understand individual experiences vary, but I just don't see the comparisom to pipes one bit, 6-apb has always been astronomicaly more pleasant and euphoric than both piperazines, and perhaps a bit less so 5-mapb. Perhaps your turned off by a hint of psychedelia? Which admittedly ain't there in spades with 6-apb to begin with.
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Yeah I am sure it was, I had 2 different batches both from reputable sources...I admit the white batch (off white) was better than the brown batch. But both felt like weak pipes to me...the reason why I can easily see the comparison and others cant, is because I was one of the few people who could actually enjoy pipes. (I hated TFMPP though at high doses, always made me freezing cold and hot and way too trippy) but I could enjoy the majority of pipes without bad side effects (80% get bad effects from them I hear) of course though 90% of the time they were a disappointment either way because I was looking for MDMA and got hit with them, but I've had (What i believe to be MCPP) some pipes that were refreshing and I actually chose them OVER mdma once when I had the choice believe it or not. (These felt a lot like MDMA without the super euphoria MDMA gives you...but it was a welcome freshment for me, as I was doing MDMA about 4x a week at that time, so I actually loved this pipes, they were green bulls I remember...)

But all that being said, 6-apb definitely feels more like a piperazine to me, than it does MDMA. It does have more euphoria than a pipe, but it's just not the good MDMA type euphoria because that psychedelic push ruins it. (for me at least, I also noticed how I didn't care for music on it and it was just a boring/spiritual drug which i've grown out of those kinds of drugs long time ago. For beginners, I can see that they would love it though....But people like me who've done way too many shrooms and psychedelics, probably wont care for 6-apb much....also i went in with high expectations...i heard everybody was seein eye wiggles and stuff from it. I didnt see any until i smoked some weed 6 hours into the trip, I saw a very minor distortion looking out the window)

ps- I did heavy research and looked at every report online regarding 6-apb before I did it...and most were positive, that's why I got my hopes up. But sifting throug, you can and will find those who agree with me that 6-apb is just too trippy, and laid back to be an mdma replacement. It does have that euphoria at times that will make you tell you secrets and shit like that, but it's just not on the same level as MDMA. But some like it more than mdma, so to each their own I guess. I could never enjoy 6-apb more than mdma though. Even knowing only 1 thing can kill an mdma buzz for me (and that's cold weather/wind chill) I'd rather be on that in the cold, than 6-apb which would make you FREEZING I bet, it has that hot/cold factor like pipes too, just not as noticable...and it also has that dirty feeling that pipes have. It does not give you the body tingles and ecstasy feeling like good pure MDMA does.

Although I admit, even MDMA doesn't do that for me anymore. Very rarely in the past 5 years have I felt anything like that. But some batches do. 6-apb? not even close...
 
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Smugglerr said:
BK-2C-B is probably the closest I've experienced, except the dosage required is much less than MDMA's dose. I expect that the dosage must be very precise as taking too much BK-2C-B (I took 300mg) and experienced a TERRIBLE breakdown and didn't recover until a week from the comedown. To put this in perspective, I was fucked up for 20 hours, 5 of which was a great rolling experience, and then the rest was full blown panic along with no ability to talk and severe paranoia when in public
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It's nothing like MDMA really, but I think I prefer it. Milder stimulation, longer duration & trippier, with little to no comedown in reasonable doses. Just don't get too close to 300mg, that's too much, the dose/response curve is different, it's better at 75-150mg, it can start getting messy & pretty psychedelic any higher than that, at low doses it's more like a low dose of MDMA that lasts longer.
 
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Real MDMA is not stimulating so you're all just confusing matters.

Seriously a high dose of legit uncut MDMA is damn near stoning. Negligible effect on heart rate, respiration, or other classical signs of being on a stimulant. In fact most people who get a pure MDMA pill for the first time think its "laced with heroin" -_-

I guess I'll just go without. I can't risk an MDA-like stimulation. I want the fluffy dreamy euphoric high of MDMA.

I'm just gonna get some 4-HO-MET and MXE and call it a day.

Don't benzofurans have a higher affinity for 5-HT2B than MDMA as well anyway?
 
To make the right bet buying big amount of right stuff, without checking out first, looks hard to me. Even 5-mapb, generally acclaimed as close to mdma, doesn't work on some people. And same people say 6-apb is the best. And some people would vomit and badtrip on 6-apb. The minority ofc. Even mdma isn't that great for everybody (although it's like gold, you won't lose if you buy it). Also some people have severe and complex tolerance or it just happens they tripped on something day before also.
4-homet and mxe, nice choice :)
 
For beginners, I can see that they would love it though....But people like me who've done way too many shrooms and psychedelics, probably wont care for 6-apb much...
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I'm confused by this, I would think that those with psychedelic experience and love for that class of substances would prefer an empathogen with a psychedelic edge. At least that's the case for me, I've ingested far too many psychedelics for comfort and when I discovered an empthogen with psychedelia I nearly jizzed my pants! I remember the first time I came accross MDA I had one of the best experiences of my life. Once that dissapeared from my local scene I shifted my love to aMT and later on these MDA analogues, but I can see how someone who doesn't like psychedelics would be turned off from 6-apb.

Though my experiences with 5-mapb and 6-apb differ dramatically than yours (I find the latter all around more active, visually, euphoria wise, and just about every aspect), I can't say I'm too surprised... well, except for the pipe comparison lol. I've been piped a good handful of times and though sometimes they were semi-pleasant, 6-apb always felt more rewarding. When doing research on these I found that personal experiences, even with the same chemical, differed quite vastly. I guess I should also point out that I'm not arguing 6-apb being the better MDMA replacement when compared to 5-mapb, 6-apb is a bit too complex to be compared directly to MDMA ime.
 
CaptainKratom said:
I'm confused by this, I would think that those with psychedelic experience and love for that class of substances would prefer an empathogen with a psychedelic edge. At least that's the case for me, I've ingested far too many psychedelics for comfort and when I discovered an empthogen with psychedelia I nearly jizzed my pants! I remember the first time I came accross MDA I had one of the best experiences of my life. Once that dissapeared from my local scene I shifted my love to aMT and later on these MDA analogues, but I can see how someone who doesn't like psychedelics would be turned off from 6-apb.

Though my experiences with 5-mapb and 6-apb differ dramatically than yours (I find the latter all around more active, visually, euphoria wise, and just about every aspect), I can't say I'm too surprised... well, except for the pipe comparison lol. I've been piped a good handful of times and though sometimes they were semi-pleasant, 6-apb always felt more rewarding. When doing research on these I found that personal experiences, even with the same chemical, differed quite vastly. I guess I should also point out that I'm not arguing 6-apb being the better MDMA replacement when compared to 5-mapb, 6-apb is a bit too complex to be compared directly to MDMA ime.
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I'll try to explain-

Well what I meant was that I get bad trips everytime now from abusing the shrooms too much. So, that also made me SUPER sensitive to anything psychedelic. It has to be truly an MDxx type of buzz for me to enjoy it. I don't mind MDMA's and MDA's psychedelicness because it is so very minor, you cannot even notice it. Well you CAN easily notice it from the MDA, but only in lower doses. When I take the high doses I usually just roll absolute balls and the euphoria is so strong, I don't feel or notice or be bothered by the trippiness. But with 6-apb it's different because 6-apb is not nearly as strong of a "rolling" buzz as MDMA/MDA to me, so the psychedelic part rears it's ugly head the entire time you're tripping on it. But it's not a hardcore trip by any means. Infact it is a VERY light trip to the point of it being impossible to wig out on it. Totally different than shrooms/LSD there.......but the trip feels just like a dirty piperazine trip to me. Almost identical.

And I just like the clean feeling of MDMA, not the dirty tripping feeling. I think those NEW to tripping OR rolling would like 6-apb a heck of a lot more, because they wouldn't be disappointed in the trippiness, I used to LOVE tripping when I first started. Believe me, I abused it a LOT. Probably far more than you did since I lived right near a bunch of shroom fields I used to go and trip every single day for a while there until I simply got so depressed I couldn't handle it anymore. But I loved shrooms that much that I abused them to the point of hating them.....forever. I will never be able to enjoy a "healthy" dose of shrooms again. ONE shroom is all I can handle now without wigging out.

But you're right, it's also a chemistry issue I think too which plays a huge part in all this, and how everyone has different experiences. But at least you see my point on how 6-apb is a bit too trippy for some people. I could care less about "Visuals" lol Infact I dont like visuals at all anymore (unless they are from MDMA/MDA because the feeling behind the drug is excellent) but I tripped far too much and became sick of seeing shit moving and morphing around, if you know what I mean..

PS- Now i am hearing all this talk about that receptor you told me how that causes heart problems if the drug antagonizes it too much (or affinity is the word you used. I really need to look that up in the dictionary...lol) but it's so weird because I never noticed any of this talk before, and now all of a sudden, ever since I made that post asking about long term damage from abusing these drugs, i am hearing it all over in different threads and stuff. If only we had known about this BEFORE ever taking the drugs, I think I would of just stuck to MDMA or something else.....

I heard that 3-mmc is pretty heavy antagonist to that receptor? Is this really true? And how can people know for sure? Because I did a LOT of 3-mmc during 2012-2013....it didn't feel at all like the apbs nor did it feel like it was super potent on your brain.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Real MDMA is not stimulating so you're all just confusing matters.

Seriously a high dose of legit uncut MDMA is damn near stoning. Negligible effect on heart rate, respiration, or other classical signs of being on a stimulant. In fact most people who get a pure MDMA pill for the first time think its "laced with heroin" -_-

I guess I'll just go without. I can't risk an MDA-like stimulation. I want the fluffy dreamy euphoric high of MDMA.

I'm just gonna get some 4-HO-MET and MXE and call it a day.

Don't benzofurans have a higher affinity for 5-HT2B than MDMA as well anyway?
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MDMA is stimulating, not a powerful speed or cocaine like stim, but it's certainly a stimulant. A mild dose of caffeine or even a therapeutic dose of speed will have a negligible effect on heart rate too. I heard people complaining that the high quality/dose Mitsubishi pills of the late 90s were cut with ket or even heroin, AFAIK they weren't, they all just tested as high MDMA & weren't as speedy as the ones cut with speed that were more common before that. The late 90s in Britain/Europe were a golden time for pure MDMA pills, the market was flooded with high strength & quality MDMA for less than the price of a beer. MDMA cut with H is a myth like opiated hash, it's never going to make good business sense to cut it with H or something more expensive than MDMA. I still didn't see anybody falling asleep in those late night raves unless they forgot to take any & just got drunk instead. Without stims most people are going to be ready for bed by 3am, but it was quite common for people to rave all weekend on just MDMA, we had a club that opened at 7am on Saturday mornings, Niche, that was legendary.

Try raving until 4am, smoking weed for a couple of hours, then going out raving again at 7am & dance almost constantly for 36 hours with little or no sleep, without MDMA or other stims, it's never going to work, but MDMA is enough. I'm not even sure the younger generation realise what went on in the 90s in Europe.

At higher doses it's more "mongy". Saw quite a few people monged out after double or triple dropping those fat pills, but they weren't actually falling asleep, just found it hard to move because they were so messed up. Later on in the night when the strong mongy comeup effects had dulled they'd be raving with the best of them. Never saw anybody who was too tired to carry on at 3am if they'd had a couple of pills.

BK-2C-B is a stim too, but even milder, I can sleep like a baby on a peak of it if I'm tired & wake up still tripping. A low dose seems quite similar to a low dose of MDMA, except the longer duration & less stimulation, at higher doses they're very different beasts. At sub-hallucinogenic doses a lot of psychedelics resemble a low dose of MDMA (like half a good pill, maybe 75-100mg).

I don't think anything can replicate normal euphoric MDMA doses, every drug is unique & small changes to a molecule can cause dramatic differences in effects.
 
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DrGreenthumb said:
I don't think anything can replicate normal euphoric MDMA doses, every drug is unique & small changes to a molecule can cause dramatic differences in effects.
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MDAI and 2C-D was pretty damn close.

By MDMA not being stimulating, I meant its not a typical CNS stimulant. There's no question its a stimulant but it doesn't have the push of the other stims, at least not for me. And I'm not looking for a chemical that has that side.

BK-2C-B sounds interesting on paper but beta ketones sketch me out. I've yet to find one I didn't abuse the living hell out of.
 
I suppose that with the relatively high dose of bk-2C-B (as opposed to doses of 2C-X's) necessary for psychedelic effects some serotonin release may be apparent (perhaps also NE to an extent). That's only theory, I haven't taken bk-2C-B. Anyway, with that being said I don't think that beta-ketone put on 2C-B is the best option to give an empathogen. Alpha-ethyl-2C-X have been discussed on BL in the past as potential empathogens with little to no psychedelic effects and I think that's the way to go. I'm also wondering whether 4-halo-3-methoxyamphetamines may be neurotoxic in the same way as 4-haloamphetamines are. MMA was found not to be neurotoxic while 4-methylamphetamine is very likely to be neurotoxic, so I suppose MCA or MBA and their N-methyl analogues could potentially be safe alternatives to MDA and MDMA. I have a feeling that MCA and MBA (CMA and BMA are more correct but could lead to ambiguity) would be more psychedelic than MMA is, but N-methyl derivatives could be interesting empathogens with a fraction of psychedelic effects due to N-demethylated metabolites. 4-halo-3-methoxyphenylsecbutylamines are potentially empathogens as well.
 
Not to start an argument or anything...but Heroin HAS been found in pills. I guess from some fool who heard the rumor that H is common in E and so he made some with some H.....even coke has been in pills. Pretty muich any drug you can think of, could be put into a pill...and probably has. But I agree, Heroin is not common to find and that was surely MDMA all that time when people claimed they "Were dirty heroin" pills. I used to roll back in the 90's and it was super expensive, $25 to $30 per pill but totally worth it as they were about 3 to 5x stronger than the best ones you find now a days.
 
PS- Now i am hearing all this talk about that receptor you told me how that causes heart problems if the drug antagonizes it too much (or affinity is the word you used. I really need to look that up in the dictionary...lol) but it's so weird because I never noticed any of this talk before, and now all of a sudden, ever since I made that post asking about long term damage from abusing these drugs, i am hearing it all over in different threads and stuff. If only we had known about this BEFORE ever taking the drugs, I think I would of just stuck to MDMA or something else.....

I heard that 3-mmc is pretty heavy antagonist to that receptor? Is this really true? And how can people know for sure? Because I did a LOT of 3-mmc during 2012-2013....it didn't feel at all like the apbs nor did it feel like it was super potent on your brain.
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5-HT2B agonists cause heart problems not antagonists. Anyway, the activation of 5-HT2B receptors doesn't solely have negative effects on the heart, they have a role in empathogenic effects as well. Psychedelics don't selectively activate 5-HT2A receptors either, different psychedelics have different affinities at various 5-HT receptors other than 5-HT2A and I bet that a lot of other subtypes play a role in effects of psychedelics. Serotonin is an endogenous 5-HT2B agonist, so any serotonin releaser is basically going to lead to 5-HT2B activation, so any empathogen may be considered potentially dangerous with frequent use. The reason why 3-MMC may be a 5-HT2B agonist is that structurally related norfenfluramine is a potent 5-HT2B agonist. It is the primary metabolite of fenfluramine which was an anti-obesity drug withdrawn from the market. 3-MMC (or nor-3-MMC) doesn't necessarily have to be as potent, even if it's weaker, repeated dosing likely does the job and has a negative effect on heart valves.

Not to start an argument or anything...but Heroin HAS been found in pills. I guess from some fool who heard the rumor that H is common in E and so he made some with some H.....even coke has been in pills. Pretty muich any drug you can think of, could be put into a pill...and probably has. But I agree, Heroin is not common to find and that was surely MDMA all that time when people claimed they "Were dirty heroin" pills. I used to roll back in the 90's and it was super expensive, $25 to $30 per pill but totally worth it as they were about 3 to 5x stronger than the best ones you find now a days.
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I don't believe it. It wouldn't pay off to put heroin into an ecstasy pill. And heroin has such a low oral bioavailability that the same dose taken intravenously and producing a strong rush could be barely felt by the same person if taken orally. This is most likely just a myth or an isolated case, I doubt that a dumbass putting heroin into ecstasy could stay on the market for too long.
 
Hello King of Beans.

Your wrote:I heard that 3-mmc is pretty heavy antagonist to that receptor? Is this really true? And how can people know for sure? Because I did a LOT of 3-mmc during 2012-2013....it didn't feel at all like the apbs nor did it feel like it was super potent on your brain.

I had and have the same feeling.I did now over 100 gramms in 3 years.Never bloodpressure or heart changes.Pulse about 100 beats if I take more than 300 mg.
I for example felt that MDPV or Methylone was much more potent on the brain and heart.They can tell me what they want but I see how I react.
I think with 3 MMC there is a ceiling effect.Till 500 mg its more potent then you can take 10 gramms and nothing more will happen.
I read that in threads with 4 MMC where one guy took 20 gramms in a night.If more means more effects and side effects then with MDPV or Methylone yes.Not 3MMC

What do you think?
 
someone gave me methadrone and tol me it was MDMA so I snorted a little kine just to test it. I got a bleeding nose and felt shitty it was nothing like it
 
adder said:
5-HT2B agonists cause heart problems not antagonists. Anyway, the activation of 5-HT2B receptors doesn't solely have negative effects on the heart, they have a role in empathogenic effects as well. Psychedelics don't selectively activate 5-HT2A receptors either, different psychedelics have different affinities at various 5-HT receptors other than 5-HT2A and I bet that a lot of other subtypes play a role in effects of psychedelics. Serotonin is an endogenous 5-HT2B agonist, so any serotonin releaser is basically going to lead to 5-HT2B activation, so any empathogen may be considered potentially dangerous with frequent use. The reason why 3-MMC may be a 5-HT2B agonist is that structurally related norfenfluramine is a potent 5-HT2B agonist. It is the primary metabolite of fenfluramine which was an anti-obesity drug withdrawn from the market. 3-MMC (or nor-3-MMC) doesn't necessarily have to be as potent, even if it's weaker, repeated dosing likely does the job and has a negative effect on heart valves.



I don't believe it. It wouldn't pay off to put heroin into an ecstasy pill. And heroin has such a low oral bioavailability that the same dose taken intravenously and producing a strong rush could be barely felt by the same person if taken orally. This is most likely just a myth or an isolated case, I doubt that a dumbass putting heroin into ecstasy could stay on the market for too long.
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Well I saw the test results. You can look online, they found heroin in one of the pills tested on pillreports...so I am not just speculating I am stating what I saw with my own eyes. I agree, it was an isolated case...but think...if one person did it, then surely it has happened elsewhere as well, and just nobody knew or tested the pills. Not everyone has a smart brain you know, some dealers are very very stupid. And most chemists are very stupid as well. Maybe in the wrong ways....but does it make sense to put DEADLY shit like PMA in a pill, and KILL your customers with it? how can they come back for more, if they are dead?

PS- thanks for the info on the "agonists".....I defintiely am worried about heart issues...but I think they are minor. I did MDMA nearly everyday for very long time and my heart issues have never been more serious than Angina and shortness of breath. You can heal heart disease naturally if you avoid the doctors/ surgury and drugs. It's not what you do that kills you though...it's what you don't do. Eating Organic food is a must, taking clorophyll is a must, taking sea salt, unrefined, is a must. And eating hot habanero peppers/cayenne is a must if you want to survive a severe heart attack with no medical intervention. Also I heard that CO Enzyme Q-10 is crucial too but your body produces that on it's own. Eat good foods, and excercise is all you need to do probably.

@Student- I responded to your message through PM (You sent me the same message through PM)
so you can find my response there...

Best of luck to you, don't take that 5-mapb daily!
 
My personal top mdma-like substance (in order of preference):
1. 4-fma
2. 6-apb (psychedelic touch brings kinda deeper thoughts)
3/4. mdma / 5-mapb (don't see difference sorry)
 
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