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Closed-minded Religious people?

For the record i am not religious, but the my point remains the same. If a higher power were to exist i think everyone here would agree that his thought process would be a little more broad than ours. So that being said i am pretty sure he/she/it would not chose ignorant bastard over "good person" regardless of whether or not that person believed in the dogma surrounding the higher power in question
 
his thought process would be something more akin to the shaping of worlds... but even then, i dont think its much of a 'thought process' as such...to quote a sci-fi author, our thoughts would appear as two-dimensional worms squirming around to a much higher/broader intelligence
 
just a thought: i'd be careful not to lump as dogmatism those practices and beliefs which are actually just strongly disciplined. there is a difference imo.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
^ Which in turn supports my theory, that a person's religion -- or any ideology or metaphysical position -- is a fundamental component that fits in seamlessly with all the other things that make that person what he or she is.

One can definitely be an avid thinker and be religious. My parents have a whole room in their house full of books by such people, and I've met quite a few of them, including in secular academe. They just leave the thinking about metaphysics and ultimate meaning to other people. There's nothing inherently wrong or intellectually despicable about this. I do my own thinking when it comes to medicine. But I leave the thinking about my finances to other people. Because I'm not naturally good at it (my only financial strategy is always being cheap to myself), and more importantly, I don't enjoy working with money. Likewise, the Big Questions are certainly not everyone's cuppa joe. (Many find them downright disturbing.) So when it comes to finding a perspective on life that renders it good and meaningful, even many intelligent, thoughtful people are more than happy to settle for the same store-bought worldview their neighbor has, and that seems to do the trick for a lot of people.

But even though I don't have a problem with organized religion overall, I'm very VERY selective about it. There's a lot of low quality religion out there, and like with drugs, I'd rather have none than one that creates more problems than it solves for me.
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The thing is, you're comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

Sure, you can leave finances to other people. Perhaps you are not mathematically inclined.

But I don't think anyone out there is more wiser than the next person about what exists outside of our known reality. If you know such people, please tell me who they are! :D

To me, following what your neighbors are doing (religiously) is a cop out. It is something that should be well-thought out. If you don't think deeply about anything else in your life, I would hope it would be that.
 
^ And there are some who would argue (and HAVE argued to me, especially in the Chinese world), that being able to work with and manage money is a necessary life skill for everyone, and I'm an utter fool for entrusting this to someone else. But I do it. Because I see the inherent risk in this as a worthwhile tradeoff, at least for now. Part of the reason is because others I've known, loved, and trusted have done the same, and had success with it.

I see what you're saying, Max. I'm a reluctant crowd follower, trust me. But you'd be surprised how much of our cues we take from other people, typically people we trust and feel a bond with, when deciding what to do and where to stand on most things. In fact, I'd say this is the default mode of action, for anything you're not at least somewhat interested in knowing in depth. Not everyone is as willing or able as you and I to take the DIY approach to philosophy or spirituality.

Of course you're going to vouch for the DIY approach, because it works for you. But the fallacy is assuming that therefore it would work better for everyone, when you don't know what it's like to be someone else.

But I don't think anyone out there is more wiser than the next person about what exists outside of our known reality. If you know such people, please tell me who they are!
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You've got me there.

I'm essentially an agnostic too -- all anyone has is HUNCHES about what lies beyond apparent reality. Metaphysics is nothing but hunches. Which is why I try not to begrudge anyone their preferred take on What This All Means, whether their take is original, or anything but.
 
Not everyone is as willing or able as you and I to take the DIY approach to philosophy or spirituality.

Of course you're going to vouch for the DIY approach, because it works for you. But the fallacy is assuming that therefore it would work better for everyone, when you don't know what it's like to be someone else.
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While this is true, don't you think this is something that can be changed? Or do people just give up and not care at a certain age, thus becoming a "lost cause" in the area of philosophy/spirituality?
 
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The more I read and try to learn about religion, the more convinced I am that religion is a personal, individual way that one lives their life. I can say that my most spiritual moments, with much clarity were times that I had indulged in certain things which society has deemed "immoral" and illegal.
 
Well ... I want to give a quick example of my experience with this .....well I will give two..

1. I had three roommates at USF in Tampa...and one was gay, the other was a hardcore christian (future sitcom eh?).... so the christian one saying god loves everyone was criticizing and bashing the gay roommate....Now I am not gay however like most ppl now a days I am not offended or freaked out by those who are .... and I stuck up for him when he did this , due to the fact if god loves us all, why would he single out homosexuality? And your actions towards him are not "christian" are they?

2. This girl (who actually may be a potential girlfriend if things work out) is very religious...she loves god and the bible but not catholic, more christian but a different type of Christianity (sorry I forget which one specific) ...and it's funny she is telling me how I should open my horizons to the whole religious views....(basically referring to the bible she was reading)...and then she said "this is the only way" or something along those lines, and I stated well then why don't you open your religious views???? haha....she contradicted herself, but she went to say well I have no doubt, it seems you have doubt...of course I have doubt....I cannot set all my beliefs in one area because as we all know life has many gray areas....so that was interesting, I think we will have really fun and interesting conversations in the future....

those came to mind on this topic...
 
^ Gotta just gently point out that hypocrisy is not the way of Jesus. Hard to argue with that.
 
your brain doesn't need religion to filter out things you don't like. weshould be happy where weare, but we're not, so here we are. trying to figure it out again.
 
^ But presumably the bashers of which you speak are :)

Give them a dose of their own medicine. If I'm trying to convince a nudist not to do something, the best shot I've got is to show him that his actions are inconsistent with the founding principles of nudism. I don't need to take off my own clothes to do this. Dig?
 
WhiteLinesNcoffee said:
For the record i am not religious, but the my point remains the same. If a higher power were to exist i think everyone here would agree that his thought process would be a little more broad than ours. So that being said i am pretty sure he/she/it would not chose ignorant bastard over "good person" regardless of whether or not that person believed in the dogma surrounding the higher power in question
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^ Wow, very good point there!

Yeah, I'm agnostic as well... I'm open to the idea of a higher power, but for the time being I am not a religious nor spirtual person. I put a lot of stock in the scientific explanations of things like evolution and such, not that I am any expert in that field either.. my knowlege of science is limited to a couple of intro bio courses :)

Relgion, in my point of view, is a coping mechanism and a guideline for people because they feel better having an explanation for things (life, death, and everything in between) rather than just not knowing. Psychologically, I think that's why some people are religious. I have no problems with people having faith in a religion.. it serves a good purpose for what I explained above ^.. and God -in the Christian sense of "God", as I understood it from my few years of being a Christian- transends scientific explanations, therefore I can understand why aruments such as "there is no proof of God" do not change the minds of believers. If the idea of God is beyond the realms of science, then of course there is no reason to need empirical evidence to believe.

^I hope that made sense.. my brain goes all haywire in religious disscussions because I just feel its such an unknown and complex topic.

MY problem, like many others mentioned, is when this belief turns into outspoken, rude debates and critism to those who do not hold the same beliefs. I don't fault a person, for example, who believes that being gay is "wrong", because in their mind, that is a sin so obviously they WOULD think that way (I probably would not want to be good friends or anything with said person, because my thoughts on homosexuality differ greatly, but I would respect their viewpoint)... when I WOULD fault them would be if they took their beliefs to another level and started openly bashing homosexuals, destroying their property, etc. That goes against basic common curteousy and respect.

So bottom line, it's not the closemindedness so much that bothers me, it's the blatant disrespect that some people display that gets me angry. What a person believes, and the way they choose to act on that are two seperate things.
 
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