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Closed-minded Religious people?

It's much easier (and much less terrifying) for people to embrace a dogma which explains everything in a way they can understand than for them to admit that they actually know nothing. Religion as it's known today only serves to give people the illusion of knowledge.

Not everyone can accept truth.

I felt the same way for a long time. It makes me sad that most people are this way, and it's extremely frustrating. There's nothing anyone can do about it though, and it's not worth the energy to try and change people's perspective when they're completely content with their situation.
 
our world is becoming increasingly violent, sexualy perverse, glutonous, destructive, and self-serving. there is much good to be learned from many faiths.
 
thats all true, but at the same time you must find the overload of dark energies fascinating at times. i am trying currently to at least appreciate the world we live in, the good and the bad, its true that our generation is more corrupted by money than a lot of previous ones, but there have been more decadent and much more brutal times than these, its not all doom n gloom
 
But can we even figure out what it is, much less accept or reject it?

ebola

No one can fully accept or reject truth, people can only be at varying distances to it, they can choose to move closer or farther away. They can have a more complete view of the whole or a more narrow one, people choose how they view life.

I think.
 
I was talking to a friend about religion in depth the other day and I personally can't understand those who cling to faith for comfort and hope. I find the nobility and satisfaction with crafting my own hope in a meaningless universe to be extremely fulfilling and rewarding. It's hard for me not to feel contempt for the perspective that what's comforting should be your compass for belief as opposed to what you think is true. That's just how I feel.
 
I was talking to a friend about religion in depth the other day and I personally can't understand those who cling to faith for comfort and hope. I find the nobility and satisfaction with crafting my own hope in a meaningless universe to be extremely fulfilling and rewarding. It's hard for me not to feel contempt for the perspective that what's comforting should be your compass for belief as opposed to what you think is true. That's just how I feel.

Not everyone is a do-it-yourselfer like yourself. The group element of religion provides an excellent model for a feeling of connectedness to the greater picture, and there will always be a sizable percentage of people who find the groupism inherent in organized religion to be a worthwhile tradeoff, in this regard. So long as you're not being harassed or discriminated against, why hate? It's their life to live as they choose, and your life to live as you choose.

And in the theme of this thread, if someone is stubborn about their religious beliefs, it's usually not that hard a topic to avoid. It's not so different from deciding 'he and I should not talk music.'
 
But hating is so fun. it feeds the ego :D my ego needs a looot of feeding mate

I agree though. i kind of like religious people probably because i was raised by very anti-religious father, in turn because he was raised brutally catholically
 
So long as you're not being harassed or discriminated against, why hate? It's their life to live as they choose, and your life to live as you choose.
I'm not hating on those people, I just hate their ideas on emotion governing belief. If anything I pity them for being emotionally trapped or pressured into a particular world view.
 
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So long as you're not being harassed or discriminated against, why hate? It's their life to live as they choose, and your life to live as you choose. And in the theme of this thread, if someone is stubborn about their religious beliefs, it's usually not that hard a topic to avoid. It's not so different from deciding 'he and I should not talk music.'

Well said. Why hate? Why bother?
 
It is not really a question of hating on them. It is just my discontent when they hate on others. Or other idea's. I have a lot of respect for with people who know why they have faith. It is just the people who were born into their religion and are afraid to go to hell that I have a problem with. Especially, when they tell me all the things that I am doing wrong. So what if Their god doesn't like me. Me and my higher power seem to get a long quite well
 
I'm not hating on those people, I just hate their ideas on emotion governing belief. If anything I pity them for being emotionally trapped or pressured into a particular world view.

Pfft, there's even more dignity in being hated than being pitied, I reckon. What if I went into your thread in SLR where you come out as gay, and posted, 'I pity you.'? I don't, and I wouldn't, but you get my point.

Can you (any of you) honestly say you have NEVER made a decision based on emotional factors, when pure cold logic might have led you in a different direction? Peer pressure, anyone? Bias for people and places near and dear, anyone?

I find it offensive, never mind fallacious, when you imply that anyone who practices an organized religion is necessarily 'emotionally trapped or pressured'. I can introduce you to some fine, emotionally quite healthy people I know who are also people of faith. And some real headcases who are not.

I'm not a fan of closed-mindedness, no matter what the issue is. But I recognize that this attitude almost always comes from a problem someone has with themselves, and that nine times out of ten, being an ass back to them helps nobody.
 
It is not really a question of hating on them. It is just my discontent when they hate on others. Or other idea's. I have a lot of respect for with people who know why they have faith. It is just the people who were born into their religion and are afraid to go to hell that I have a problem with. Especially, when they tell me all the things that I am doing wrong. So what if Their god doesn't like me. Me and my higher power seem to get a long quite well

Well said.

I generally have two responses to such people:
1. Why don't we let God do the judging, and let's you and I agree to disagree.
2. Jesus said 'love thy neighbor', even when it wasn't easy. I don't know about you, but I'm all about practicing that right now.
 
Can you (any of you) honestly say you have NEVER made a decision based on emotional factors, when pure cold logic might have led you in a different direction? Peer pressure, anyone? Bias for people and places near and dear, anyone?
Of course I do. Everyone does. However, to my knowledge I don't think I do it consciously and I at least try my utmost not to with beliefs related to some ultimate truth.
I find it offensive, never mind fallacious, when you imply that anyone who practices an organized religion is necessarily 'emotionally trapped or pressured'. I can introduce you to some fine, emotionally quite healthy people I know who are also people of faith. And some real headcases who are not.
I never said those who practice organised religion are emotionally trapped or pressured into adopting that stance. I apologise if I gave that impression and after rereading my post, yeah I definitely kinda did. I was actually just targeting those who are religious or stay religious because they're literally afraid of a universe without god. I never claimed that all religious followers are like that although I did accidentally imply it. Most of the theists who I know personally certainly aren't. I count them as having reached their beliefs on God through enlightenment. But I have met those (back when I was a born again Christian in fact) who've essentially said that they don't care if their beliefs are true, they'll always keep their faith because it's comforting to them. From my perspective I can't see the difference between that and an adult continuing to believe Santa flies around the world delivering presents at Christmas simply because it's a nice thought. And yes, I know, that's a very Richard Dawkins thing to say but that's how I feel.

Of course those believers who stand by what's comforting are often the products of their upbringing and religious indoctrination. In which case, I still pity them as I share that with them and know firsthand what it does to a person. Maybe empathise is a better word there?

I would never say these things to another person's face to upset them and provoke debate, all I'm giving are my own feelings on the idea of wilful ignorance and those who overtly buy into it.
 
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But I have met those (back when I was a born again Christian in fact) who've essentially said that they don't care if their beliefs are true, they'll always keep their faith because it's comforting to them. From my perspective I can't see the difference between that and an adult continuing to believe Santa flies around the world delivering presents at Christmas simply because it's a nice thought. And yes, I know, that's a very Richard Dawkins thing to say but that's how I feel.

You would begrudge someone, someone who likely has it rough in many other areas of their life, the only thing that gives them the strength to keep on keeping on? This absolutely turns my stomach.

I can kind of see giving a hard time to people who logically or intellectually try to defend their religious beliefs, who argue that cold reason leads naturally to believing what they believe. Because if that were so, there'd be no need for faith -- it would be an article of fact. Intellectual environments deal only in what's based in logic, and anyone who advances a proposition using logic ought to admit the fallacy of his reasoning when it's pointed out to him, if he's being intellectually honest.

But there is nothing intellectually fallacious, nothing to argue, with someone who comes right out and says, 'I believe because it makes me feel better.' I respect such people MORE than the divine logic spinners, because at least they're being honest with themselves and others.

I'm one of these people you say you pity. I read a whole slew of atheist literature when I was 18, and went to a college where having religious faith was not really the done thing. I tried to embrace materialism, and the idea that I am an insignificant accidental speck in a cold uncaring meaningless universe. I couldn't. No matter how I spun it, I was unable to use this as a starting point for any worldview that felt positive or improved my quality of life or will to live. I've tried Humanism (both secular and religious), and have read (and not been convinced by) many arguments for why materialism doesn't lead directly to nihilism. It sure does for me.

I don't presently belong to any religion. But I do have a modicum of faith, that I cling to tightly -- namely that I am part of SOME great plan. I don't know whose plan or what that plan is, and I'm content not to know. All I need to have faith in is that our world, our lives, are not ultimately random and meaningless. Beyond that, I'm open to pretty much any possibility.

But I side with the religious, because whether they know it or not, whether THEY'D see me as being on their side or not, what drives them is the same as what drives me. While what drives materialists is something I cannot fathom.

So there you have it. Take a good. Hard. Look at me. Hate me, pity me, disrespect me, I don't care. I lay my cards on the table, and I make no apologies for what I believe. It just really sickens me that someone would kick a person for admitting human frailty in a harsh world. Life is hard for us all. So long as it doesn't harm anyone else, what makes your coping mechanism, your security blanket, any better than mine?

(Wow, I didn't mean to write a book here. But what can I say -- when a nerve is touched, I jump and yell.)
 
hey man, it is what it is. their closemindedness will reap what it sews in their lives. all i can do is feel sorry for them. im not one to cast stones here.

knowledge is somewhat of a backwards thing. to truely know something there exists a duality to things. with religion 'knowing' is a side effect and a reward after faith (which must precede that knowledge for it to be pure; without something evil brought into your life to gain the knowledge). doing it the other way, the way that seems logical and right and all, knowing something before the faith, must mean you will bring that duality into existance. the knowledge of good and evil. to know either of the two you must expereince them both. most faiths try to teach people how to become one with the example of a life led without the evil. but to know the inner workings of the stuff and why to obey the faith you must contradict the teachings. and it is foolish to try and do that because the knowledge will come after the expereince. and it will be a complete knowledge that will also be worked and welded to your life.

so again i say it is what it is, and we cannot know because its someone eles's mind and heart we are trying to look into here. and remember god judges the heart, the intent. let the close minded live their path and one day their eyes will be opened.
 
You would begrudge someone, someone who likely has it rough in many other areas of their life, the only thing that gives them the strength to keep on keeping on? This absolutely turns my stomach.
Like I've said, I'm just not a fan of their idea of wilful ignorance. I wouldn't hold something as petty as that against a person and use it to as a reason to dislike them.

I don't presently belong to any religion. But I do have a modicum of faith, that I cling to tightly -- namely that I am part of SOME great plan. I don't know whose plan or what that plan is, and I'm content not to know. All I need to have faith in is that our world, our lives, are not ultimately random and meaningless. Beyond that, I'm open to pretty much any possibility.
That confuses me. If you don't know what the plan is or whose plan but you're content in that state of not knowing, then why can't you extend that to not knowing if there is a plan in the first place? Isn't saying 'I don't know' better than trying to fill things in using faith?

So there you have it. Take a good. Hard. Look at me. Hate me, pity me, disrespect me, I don't care. I lay my cards on the table, and I make no apologies for what I believe. It just really sickens me that someone would kick a person for admitting human frailty in a harsh world. Life is hard for us all. So long as it doesn't harm anyone else, what makes your coping mechanism, your security blanket, any better than mine?
I don't hate you or pity you but I still find your views perplexing. I'm almost in the same place as you. I don't know if there are any Gods out there, or if the universe was written with some great divine plan, and I'm content in that place of not knowing. Either way it doesn't change my happiness or purpose while I'm here (well actually, ditching Christianity remarkably improved the quality of my life). Obviously you think in depth and study a lot of this stuff so as long as you're always thinking and challenging what you know and believe then I don't care what views you hold. Perhaps that's what threw me off most about those people is they were scared to go outside of and challenge their beliefs and their need for them.
 
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