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Closed-minded Religious people?

"actually, ditching Christianity remarkably improved the quality of my life"

how so? (not christian; just curious)
 
"actually, ditching Christianity remarkably improved the quality of my life"

how so? (not christian; just curious)
 
college_dropout said:
Like I've said, I'm just not a fan of their idea of wilful ignorance. I wouldn't hold something as petty as that against a person and use it to as a reason to dislike them.
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OK, that general feeling I can relate to. For someone who's curious, and hasn't been beaten into repeating the party line 'curiosity is a vice', to hear somebody brush aside your idea or question with 'Pfft, I don't care about that. Let's change the subject', is annoying to say the least. Somehow I tend to get to that point with a lot of people long before anything as deep or personal as metaphysical beliefs come up :o

college_dropout said:
That confuses me. If you don't know what the plan is or whose plan but you're content in that state of not knowing, then why can't you extend that to not knowing if there is a plan in the first place? Isn't saying 'I don't know' better than trying to fill things in using faith?
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I DON'T know. I'll be the first to admit I don't know, and could very well be plumb wrong. Because if my life experiences, my journeys, my countless interactions with people I'd consider interesting, and my nights up reading have taught me anything about the big picture, the ultimate reality, it's that very likely, none of us know jack, and this human form you and I have now may just not be built for comprehending all there is to comprehend. It's painful, and limiting, in countess ways, to be human, after all. I definitely fit the definition of 'agnostic', I realize.

But I can't exactly describe myself as without faith. I entertain the possibility, quite seriously, that there is 'more than meets the eye', or the microscope, if you get my drift. I HOPE that there is more than meets the eye. I indulge myself the working under the assumption, much but not all of the time, that there probably is more than meets the eye, and that it's good news for me and everyone else. It's a very stripped-down, bare bones faith, I know. But I hold it because it works for me, and because as far as I can see, it does a good job of helping me keep a compassionate attitude toward people of any sort of belief, even if don't agree with what they use their [un]belief to justify doing.

college_dropout said:
(well actually, ditching Christianity remarkably improved the quality of my life)
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Ah...
That clears thing up.

Please understand I've had generally a positive experience of religion, so I guess I find religious people (who aren't nutcakes) easier to relate to.

I like to think of all us sentient lifeforms as essentially like people clinging to pieces of flotsam in a terrible flood. It's a tough existence for all involved, even though it's exhilarating at the same time. Since we're all equally as fucked, it's really kind of silly to have beef with people, and the best thing there is to do is help other people feel less fucked, and by so doing help them realize that we're all from the same source great unknowable source, to which we'll all return.

Thanks for this chat, dude. You've motivated me to articulate and refine my thoughts on some of the deepest metaphysical matters I've pondered.
 
I am not going to bother quoting College drop out or Mydoorsareopen, but you too seem to be arguing in circles both around the same thing. You are both forgetting it is what works for them. The logic thinkers and the people who need faith to just get through life. Both are fulfilling there needs through different outlets. Logic thinking, or blind clinging to a hope that life does in fact have a reason. In end, no one really knows. Life is ALL about finding fulfillment no matter which way you look at it.

My post originally was just about the certain few people who could be in the OMFGLOL Atheist fan club, OR the OMFGLOL I LUV JESUS HATZ <3 fan club who block out anything that can be learned from anything else.

I don't know this post is kind of rambled, but i guess the main point I am trying to get across is that people should be open to new ideas or <faith> ,but not shove their ideas or <faith> down other people throats or Condemn or look upon them differently because they don't have the same set of ideas, or <faith/Belief> as them
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
Well said.

I generally have two responses to such people:
1. Why don't we let God do the judging, and let's you and I agree to disagree.
2. Jesus said 'love thy neighbor', even when it wasn't easy. I don't know about you, but I'm all about practicing that right now.
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Well said. Same here. :D
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
And in the theme of this thread, if someone is stubborn about their religious beliefs, it's usually not that hard a topic to avoid. It's not so different from deciding 'he and I should not talk music.'
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What if you're married to a close-minded religious person? A bit harder to avoid I think. :\

MyDoorsAreOpen said:
I do have a modicum of faith, that I cling to tightly -- namely that I am part of SOME great plan. I don't know whose plan or what that plan is, and I'm content not to know. All I need to have faith in is that our world, our lives, are not ultimately random and meaningless.
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Who's to say it isn't ultimately all random and meaningless and what evidence do you have to the contrary?
 
how about us open-minded religious people? we are not all evangelist preachers or bible thumping district attorneys, you know. "Judge not, lest ye will be judged." Right?
 
WhiteLinesNcoffee said:
And by this I mean all the people living day to day calling themselves Christian/Jewish/Muslim or anything for that matter that do not know the first thing about any other religion or in many cases these people do not know the first thing about their own religion they so readily affiliate themselves with. It really bugs me, especially when people of a certain religion think their's is superior to the next persons.

However, worst of all I can't stand the close-mindedness of some heavily religious people. I my self am agnostic in the sense that I am always open to knew ways of thinking about life and what comes next. Which is what I personally believe all people should be. To many people seem to fall into the religion they are born into without much though into it and when confronted with new "dangerous ideas" the readily play the "faith card" or tell me I am wrong and the only way to salvation is Jesus Christ. That was just a vague example because spiritual ignorance comes from all different places. Even atheists lol.

I guess it all just comes from the fact that I hate almost everything about religion. I believe that spirituality is more of a personal thing. And throughout history religion seems to have failed man-kind.

Does anyone else feel this way or am I just rambling on.
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I hear you! I find it hard to understand why people don't question their faith at the very least. I find religious fundamentalism, particularly in Islam, the hardest to understand. Many of its most extreme members are intelligent and scientific but will still support violence via terrorism. I hope to God I haven't offended anyone here.;)

Whatever limited notion about God was the hippy notion of a loving creator. I can't understand violence and dogma. My understanding of CHristianity was a message of Good News and Joy. I couldn't relate to all the Hell and Brimstone malarky. Certainly can't bear oppression caused by religion.

Perhaps history merely repeats itself; we may have increasing technologies but the old-fashioned prejudices still remain, sadly.

One thing I notice about these boards is how many of us are free spirits which is nice. ;)
 
MaxPowers said:
What if you're married to a close-minded religious person? A bit harder to avoid I think. :\
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Sure it is: don't marry someone you can't agree to disagree with in the first place. If someone becomes a fundie extremist AFTER you marry them, and you couldn't have seen it coming, then I truly feel for you. (I've seen one marriage amongst my family's friends dissolve this way.) But I don't think this is common. Typically, I think most people have made up their minds on their core values and beliefs by the time they're ready to marry, and most people don't marry someone without having a fairly good idea what their potential partner is all about.

Max, if you're implying here that you're married to someone who pushes their beliefs down your throat, feel free to PM me about it, because that's a whole other matter.

Who's to say it isn't ultimately all random and meaningless and what evidence do you have to the contrary?
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Exactly! Nobody can say for sure.
But here's the kicker: if it is ultimately all random and meaningless, then in the grand scheme of things, one has nothing to lose by hoping, believing, or deciding otherwise, because it doesn't even matter. Therefore, either way, no harm is done by being a person of faith.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
Sure it is: don't marry someone you can't agree to disagree with in the first place. If someone becomes a fundie extremist AFTER you marry them, and you couldn't have seen it coming, then I truly feel for you. (I've seen one marriage amongst my family's friends dissolve this way.) But I don't think this is common. Typically, I think most people have made up their minds on their core values and beliefs by the time they're ready to marry, and most people don't marry someone without having a fairly good idea what their potential partner is all about.

Max, if you're implying here that you're married to someone who pushes their beliefs down your throat, feel free to PM me about it, because that's a whole other matter.
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Oh, I'm not married yet.

I guess what I was hinting at was meeting someone you really care for and has all the qualities you'd want in a partner . . . except they are firm believers in their religion. I loathe organized religion. Therein lies the problem.

No one is pushing their ideals on anyone, but when the husband is agnostic and the wife wants to raise the children in a fundie church every weekend, I'd imagine you'd HAVE to talk about religion. It's not really something you can avoid talking about.

Exactly! Nobody can say for sure.
But here's the kicker: if it is ultimately all random and meaningless, then in the grand scheme of things, one has nothing to lose by hoping, believing, or deciding otherwise, because it doesn't even matter. Therefore, either way, no harm is done by being a person of faith.
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Well, it depends on what rules your specific faith require you to follow. If my faith requires me to not eat meat, drink alcohol, or try any drugs (therefore keeping my temple [body] clean) then you DO have something to lose by believing.

It'd be a shame if your experiences, and possibly fun, in this life were to be severely limited due to what you believe to be the ultimate truth.
 
money is god. the method of worship: enslavement to survivalist values. Death is a tax; tax is a death.
 
Re; closed mindedness

It appears that the 'believer's mind' actually is closed in the area of his 'belief'.
There is an inversely proportional ratio between 'critical thought' and 'belief'; the more of one, the less of the other.
So, those hosting 'beliefs' actually do have a 'closed mind'... closed for the duration of the 'belief' (in the area of the belief). 'Belief' and 'critical thought' cannot occupy the same space at the same time in the same mind...
 
namelesss said:
Re; closed mindedness

It appears that the 'believer's mind' actually is closed in the area of his 'belief'.
There is an inversely proportional ratio between 'critical thought' and 'belief'; the more of one, the less of the other.
So, those hosting 'beliefs' actually do have a 'closed mind'... closed for the duration of the 'belief' (in the area of the belief). 'Belief' and 'critical thought' cannot occupy the same space at the same time in the same mind...
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wtf does that even mean lol
 
He's saying that there is a "belief":"Critical Thinking" ratio. That belief and critical thinking are two completely different things.

I think that's incorrect though. I think you can develop beliefs through critical thinking.
 
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