• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Closed-minded Religious people?

i kind of agree with the belief=absence of critical thought. belief is just static thought. i.e. your brain has stopped computing. the dreamer has stopped dreaming, etc.

it is best to "feel". this isn't irrational bleeding heart bullshit - it is actually your deepest "mind" which knows exact cause & effect
 
So if someone asked "Why do you believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead?" and that person ran off reasons based on empirical evidence you wouldn't consider that critical thinking?
 
lets definite critical thinking. actually, lets not - it doesn't sound right for what i mean anyway. what i mean is that belief hampers the elasticity of thought, the ability for your mind/body to adapt to changing situations. i.e. why do you believe jesus christ rose from the dead, since it's not happening right now, and it doesn't affect your future? holding an obscure belief in a maybe/maybe-not ancient-event in your head probably goes against smooth sailing in the 21st century.... unless, of course, because of the general structure of your personality using that belief has a comfort. we believe what we need to to survive, to persevere; nothing more, nothing less - i dont "believe" in absolute truth. the human mind acts mainly as a filter... something to negate, and condense infinite possiblities into a sense-form. not to probe out there for what's "really" there, which is how both scientism and religion sees it.
 
why do you believe jesus christ rose from the dead, since it's not happening right now,
So? That doesn't mean that you can't reach a belief based on empirical evidence. Do you believe in the Civil War in the USA? It's not happening right now either.

and it doesn't affect your future?
You don't know that.

holding an obscure belief in a maybe/maybe-not ancient-event in your head probably goes against smooth sailing in the 21st century.... unless, of course, because of the general structure of your personality using that belief has a comfort. we believe what we need to to survive, to persevere; nothing more, nothing less
Basically I was faced with a claim that Christianity was true and from there I used critical thinking to come to a belief about the subject. My beliefs are based off of critical thinking, not what produces "smooth sailing".
 
Yeh, you're right those 2 comments you quoted are ridiculous, lol. and i agree with the 3rd. basically, im saying things. which goes back to my true point: there are no beliefs. my mind changes, my response to my environment, so i cannot really trust myself enough to know a single belief so well. even one like the civil war happening. sure it "happened", but maybe the way it happened is so different than i realise that my belief is generally off. ok that sounds kind of out there - but im just trying to make conversation, dammit!

my only single belief could be some vague type of idea involving love, death, non-existence, fate... i just cant, and wont materialise it further because i see specification, evolution even, as a degradation, time is actually moving backward... thats as close i can come to it
 
A few things:

1.) I think there's a difference between being religious and being dogmatic.

2.) To me, being religious is like forever rereading one book from a humongous library. Yes, sure it's a great book, maybe the best one you've ever read, but...for God's sake, there are hundreds of thousands of other books in this one building. I couldn't read them all, even if I wanted to--but I also can't read just one book.
 
And by this I mean all the people living day to day calling themselves Christian/Jewish/Muslim or anything for that matter that do not know the first thing about any other religion or in many cases these people do not know the first thing about their own religion they so readily affiliate themselves with. It really bugs me, especially when people of a certain religion think their's is superior to the next persons.

Nice generalization there.

However, worst of all I can't stand the close-mindedness of some heavily religious people. I my self am agnostic in the sense that I am always open to knew ways of thinking about life and what comes next. Which is what I personally believe all people should be.

Contradiction to the former statement?

Not that it matters but I myself get tired of seeing these same types of discussions happen, "religious people are closed-minded, look at me I'm soooo open minded". However people starting these discussions have already become hypocrites in that by making generalizations and saying one group is closed-minded and they themselves are not, they have essentially become closed-minded by not examining from an objective point of view. To be open-minded one would entertain and observe concepts and ideas without putting personal opinion in them. This doesn't mean you have to agree with said concept or idea but it also does not mean you go around saying "hey look at these people with their God(s), they just don't get it man".

Why can't we just come to the terms with the fact that there are closed and open-minded people of every walk of life and be done with it. Why must we continue to rag on the fact that not everyone sees it the way we do?

i kind of agree with the belief=absence of critical thought. belief is just static thought. i.e. your brain has stopped computing. the dreamer has stopped dreaming, etc.

it is best to "feel". this isn't irrational bleeding heart bullshit - it is actually your deepest "mind" which knows exact cause & effect

I've been studying Kabbalah and in it, it is stated that there are 3 types of faith:

1. Faith Below Reason; Untested (i.e. someone told me God exists and it sounds alright to me so I believe it)
2. Faith Within Reason; Scientific, Pragmatic (i.e. there is no hard evidence to prove God's existence so I don't believe it)
3. Faith Above Reason; Actual Perception, Sensation (i.e. I have observed forces at work first hand so I have come to believe that there is some form of higher power)
 
Last edited:
So if someone asked "Why do you believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead?" and that person ran off reasons based on empirical evidence you wouldn't consider that critical thinking?
There is no 'empirical evidence' on the subject to 'justify', rationally, such 'beliefs'. If there were, it would be a 'theory', not a 'belief'.
 
i kind of agree with the belief=absence of critical thought. belief is just static thought. i.e. your brain has stopped computing. the dreamer has stopped dreaming, etc.

it is best to "feel". this isn't irrational bleeding heart bullshit - it is actually your deepest "mind" which knows exact cause & effect

So holding a belief means your critical thought process is hampered? What if you hold the belief that all religions are bullshit, is your critical thought affected then? Or are you saying that critical thought is only lessened when the belief is in something religious? If you are saying the latter, that's a huge double standard.

Most Christians have their own interpretation of the Bible. In this way, they engage in critical thought, and that's not even looking outside of religious belief. Very, very few Christians take the Bible as word-for-word truth. Only using these kinds of Christians in your interpretation of the faith is quite close-minded.

Wikipedia uses this definition: "Critical thinking is purposeful and reflective judgment about what to believe or do in response to observations, experience, verbal or written expressions, or arguments." I don't see why people think that just because a person is a Christian/Jew/Muslim, that the person can't engage in critical thinking. People of faith use critical thinking in school, at work, in social situations, and when analyzing their own actions, moods, beliefs, and feelings...just like the rest of us. I can't think of one person I know who would feel depressed and think its because God or the Devil is doing it to him or her. I can't think of one person I know who would ask "what would Jesus do" when trying to date a girl or socialize with a new friend. Nor can I think of one person who prays to God for an answer to a test question, at least not seriously.

I worked on a school district maintenance crew in highschool over the summer. We had to do some comlicated work at times, and if you didn't do it in just the right order and plan shit out, the jobs would be ten times harder. I was usually just following orders, and I noticed how the men in charge used critical thinking to coordinate a team of people, and get the job done with the least amount of effort in the smallest possibe time frame. Most (if not all) of the men were Christians.

Obviously, you don't have to be a die-hard fundamentalist to be religious. Church might be a valuable social outlet for you. Religion might be a powerful psychological tool for you and your entire family. You might not think that your religion is superior to all other ones, but perhaps you were born and raised into the religion you practice. You don't want to deviate because the religion has always helped make you happy. You want the same happiness and psychological security for your children, so you introduce them to the religion as well.
 
spaceyourbass, i never made a double standard for religion, i was responding to damien's post. and i think if someone held the belief that all religions are bullshit, they are not adhering to critical thought and are missing out on some good advice and some meaningful stories/histories

wikipedia seems to have right. critical thought is the freedom to believe and act in whatever you find is best in the situation. you will find that your beliefs change over the course of the day. i bet i could catch you forsaking almost any supposedly "permanent" belief! that's why i dont believe in religion - dogma. but thats a whole other (boring) argument
 
wikipedia seems to have right. critical thought is the freedom to believe and act in whatever you find is best in the situation. you will find that your beliefs change over the course of the day. i bet i could catch you forsaking almost any supposedly "permanent" belief! that's why i dont believe in religion - dogma. but thats a whole other (boring) argument

That's why Christianity has been so appealing to so many cultures all over the world - you can do whatever the hell you want and be forgiven the next day in Church. Christianity: the ultimate insurance policy.

Cost of case of beer: $15
Cost of 8ball of cocaine: $200
Cost of asian hooker: $100
Being forgiven on Sunday: Priceless
 
^ In a world where people remember your mistakes, and don't always forgive them even when they've attempted to show you otherwise, it's rather soothing to know that in the grand scheme of things, all will be forgiven, innit?
 
I honestly think god would LOL all over the peoples faces who think that a particular title of their own religion is there way to salvation. You know those people who would be saying something along the lines "all Muslim's will burn in hell" "fags will burn in hell" "Asians Don't have souls!"


But, that is just my opinion.
 
No one can fully accept or reject truth, people can only be at varying distances to it, they can choose to move closer or farther away. They can have a more complete view of the whole or a more narrow one, people choose how they view life.

How? What practices with either certainty or at least high validity point toward truth? And by what mechanisms do these practices ensure movement toward truth?

I haven't really found anything good enough... yet. ;)

ebola
 
I honestly think god would LOL all over the peoples faces who think that a particular title of their own religion is there way to salvation. You know those people who would be saying something along the lines "all Muslim's will burn in hell" "fags will burn in hell" "Asians Don't have souls!"


But, that is just my opinion.

This is a great post that supports my theories and real statistical evidence which shows that most religious people (the evidence says that most Christians) have their own personal interpretation of their faith. They know that a lot of it is bullshit, but have faith in the religion because it plays a major role in their psychological health. It makes them feel good. I'm not sure that this is what you were trying to say WhiteLines (in fact I'm sure you were not at all trying to make the point I just made)...but I had to use your post to make my point and explain to hateful atheists that not all religious people are mindless sheep. A vast majority of them think for themselves just like non-religious people.
 
^ Which in turn supports my theory, that a person's religion -- or any ideology or metaphysical position -- is a fundamental component that fits in seamlessly with all the other things that make that person what he or she is.

One can definitely be an avid thinker and be religious. My parents have a whole room in their house full of books by such people, and I've met quite a few of them, including in secular academe. They just leave the thinking about metaphysics and ultimate meaning to other people. There's nothing inherently wrong or intellectually despicable about this. I do my own thinking when it comes to medicine. But I leave the thinking about my finances to other people. Because I'm not naturally good at it (my only financial strategy is always being cheap to myself), and more importantly, I don't enjoy working with money. Likewise, the Big Questions are certainly not everyone's cuppa joe. (Many find them downright disturbing.) So when it comes to finding a perspective on life that renders it good and meaningful, even many intelligent, thoughtful people are more than happy to settle for the same store-bought worldview their neighbor has, and that seems to do the trick for a lot of people.

But even though I don't have a problem with organized religion overall, I'm very VERY selective about it. There's a lot of low quality religion out there, and like with drugs, I'd rather have none than one that creates more problems than it solves for me.
 
Top