Closed Eyed Visuals

[Weebl8bob]

Strange.. ever since I was little I saw these patterns without the use of psychoactives and always assumed that it was a visual representation of my thoughts so to speak..
I suppose my guess was pretty accurate ^_^

 

[BlueFractal]

The use of psychoactives is indeed not at all necessary, as there are other ways of inducing them too.
An interesting video, which tells very much the same as in that pdf file I posted earlier. It's something more than 100 MB and it' a .flv file, so you will need a player which can handle files like that (VLC player can).

http://www.archive.org/download/redwood_center_2006_02_14_cowan/cowan.flv

abstract:
Spontaneous pattern formation in large scale brain activity: what visual migraines and hallucinations tell us about the brain
Tuesday 14th of February 2006 at 05:00pm
5101 Tolman
In 1952 Turing's paper on the chemical basis of morphogenesis initiated an important approach to the mathematical analysis of spontaneous pattern formation. In 1973 Wilson and Cowan introduced a similar formulation in nets of interacting neurons and in 1979 Ermentrout and Cowan developed the mathematical analysis of such nets using local bifurcation theory and symmetry groups. Bressloff, Cowan, Golubitsky, Thomas and Wiener further developed this approach to characterize and analyze some of the circuitry of the primate visual cortex. The symmetry group used was the Euclidean group in the plane, E(2), under a novel rotation action. Such an action is related to the fact that the visual cortex is a network of oriented edge detectors. However it is clear that much more than the orientation of a local edge is detected in the visual cortex: movement, texture and surface information, color and depth, for example. In this talk I will describe a new approach that allows the incorporation of some of the above features into a comprehensive account of the origins of visual migraines and hallucinations.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

^

Strange.. ever since I was little I saw these patterns without the use of psychoactives and always assumed that it was a visual representation of my thoughts so to speak........

How can one separate "visual representations" from "thoughts"? I suppose I am asking whether "thought" isn't just a global term for mental phenomena such as visual imagery, sub-vocalisation and etc.

 

[BlueFractal]

We are not talking about visual imagery like "imagining yourself a dog", but about the abstract patterns which you can see "in your head".
In my opinion they aren't linked to higher cognition like the imagination, but are the result of very basic processes in the brain, which kind of "spill over" to what you "see" and process. And the links I posted earlier seem to say the same.

edit:
http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/010426/visual-cortex.shtml
a short and very accessibe text about the field of study of Jack Cowan. He seems to be one of the important names in this research area.

 

[nuke]

This is my theory:

The human brain perceives visual information in the form of mostly symmetric fractal geometry (as opposed to say, square geometry like pixels on a computer screen). The breakdown of this process from stroboscopic lights or drugs allows one to see the process kind of backwardsly, in the equivalent of a damaged MPEG movie or a pixelated movie (but much more interestingly because the way our brain processes visual information is much like vector imaging).

Another example is a damaged console/computer game or if you just start corrupting random RAM data in a game, you'll see all sorts of interesting visual phenomenom before it crashes.

 

[MachineGunBallad]

When you look at an image, you don't see the whole image but instead infer what the image is and your brain fills in the rest. There's tons of optical illusions that play on this. I think hallucinogens make this ability of your brain hyperactive, so that your brain fills in more than what's there (or in the case of CEVs, fills in nothing).

 

[Beenhead]

But I dont see any of those simple patterns. On drugs like LSD I see extremely organized patterns that look like a great cathedral or some arabesque, it is completely impossible to describe except while under the visions. But it fits in none of those standard patterns

 

[psychedelicious]

I see lattice-tunnels (following Jack Cowan's and his (?) posse's research) during periods of physical strain and intense physical activity. I used to say that the pattern was like the magnetic field, but with a duplicate set of field lines rotated 90* and overlayed onto the first set of field lines.

I made a thread about this a while ago - fascinating! I just made this in photoshop - very close to the patterns I see:

The pattern floats in my focal point/center of vision.

Awesome thread!

 

[inotocracy]

I dropped today and I found that if I put headphones on and played some Aphex Twin in the dark I enjoyed some calming CEVs.

 

[mountain]

Do you actually see them? Or do you imagine them?

I'm not sure how you can tell those apart. I guess that if they stay the way they are, no matter what you think about, it's like you're "seeing" them. If the drug works directly on the visual brain area, you could say you "see" them (as opposed to having weird concepts in the mind that you just "visualize"). There was a thread about this quite recently in PD already.

you don't see ANYTHING with your eyes, but with your brain

True. That's FAQ material...

When you look at an image, you don't see the whole image but instead infer what the image is and your brain fills in the rest. There's tons of optical illusions that play on this. I think hallucinogens make this ability of your brain hyperactive, so that your brain fills in more than what's there (or in the case of CEVs, fills in nothing).

In connection with the previous quotation, a very good point as well.

 

[nikol]

I see lattice-tunnels (following Jack Cowan's and his (?) posse's research) during periods of physical strain and intense physical activity. I used to say that the pattern was like the magnetic field, but with a duplicate set of field lines rotated 90* and overlayed onto the first set of field lines.

I made a thread about this a while ago - fascinating! I just made this in photoshop - very close to the patterns I see:

The pattern floats in my focal point/center of vision.

Awesome thread!

This is amazing-

I tried to start a thread the other day about people seeing visuals (closed eye or otherwise) while they are under some type of stress; physical, mental, or a combination. During a very bad fight I had the other day I started noticing patterns like the picture you have posted, except they were in full color and there were more than one of them (so they did not float in the center of my vision). They covered the white wall that I was staring at, filling up the empty space the way that mushroom visuals do.
What kind of physical strain causes you to see this lattice-tunnel?

 

[IGNVS]

at warped tour in the killswitch moshpit i started seeing visuals like that. the color bled out of everything and i could only feel music and something like that came into sight.

 

[swilow]

The pattern floats in my focal point/center of vision.

That would get really annoying. So far I've never seen anything; artworks, music IRL that resembles CEV's really. Next time your tripping fully examine them- unless you can paint, draw and see in four dimensions, evrything falls short.

 

[Sidus]

^ It sounds like you have never seen classic CEV. They are patterns overlayed on the back of your eyelids, just like you see the grass. Except your eyes are closed and they are incredibly detailed patterns, not grass.

They generally occur in all their brilliance during higher doses.

I believe the brain is sending junk signals to the visual centers of the brain, and the brain sees patterns. They are there and its not in the minds eye, or imagination. They are as real as looking at the pattern on a beautiful rug or curtain, just behind closed eyes.

But these types of patterns only occur with the use of 5ht2a psychedelics, marijuana does not do it, nor does anticholinergics.

Exactly!!!! Ive tried to get them the last couple of weeks with high doses of MJ. And I seem to get a sort of iTunes visualisations, but when my toughts wander of, so will my CEV's. But I sorta get the idea! Now I need something to see them whether I like it or not !!!

 

[Armadillo]

I went back to this review about the causes of complex visual hallucinations: M. Manford, F. Andermann: Brain (1998 ), 121, 1819-40. It is good read.

By the way, from high oral doses of cannabis (approaching amnesia), I have experienced very intense CEV. It doesn't produce those lovely fractals, but rather scenes / abstraction, and colorful, too.

 

[swilow]

When you look at an image, you don't see the whole image but instead infer what the image is and your brain fills in the rest. There's tons of optical illusions that play on this. I think hallucinogens make this ability of your brain hyperactive, so that your brain fills in more than what's there (or in the case of CEVs, fills in nothing).

Thats not entirely true really. In the case of the 'blind spot' and peripheral vision, a lot is invented by the brain and filled in, but general vision is relatively true to the way our eyes are designed. What is intriguing though is the fact that there is a 500millisencond lag in between the eyes SEEING and the brain SEEING, suggesting that all vision is processed 'preconciously' and then enters our field of vision. What the processing is, who knows? Also, this fact suggests that we never actually 'see' anything in the present, its all half a second old. Weird.

Psychedelics, with the enhanced and changed neaural connections, might PERHAPS alter that crucial processing stage of vision, either lengthening or more likely, shortening it, so we get a 'clearer' picture of reality, with less brain-noise intefering. The trailing and flanging of imagery certainly suggests a 'backlog' and feedback cycle occurring in the visual cortex....

 

[Don Luigi]

someone should genetically engineer mushrooms that produce 2ce that would be the shit X ten

Though far fetched, this concept interests me. It first came to my attention from Shulgin. By adding things to the substrate, you could change the compounds that the mushroom contains.

However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/2005/12/4-hydroxy-5-methoxy-nn_07.html

 

[MattPsy]

Too bad it has no chance of working to create 2C's. If you were looking to do that then a modification of the enzymes that exist in the cacti that produce mescaline (3,4,5-triMeO-PEA) might be a good starting point. Good luck with that though :/ .

 

[Beenhead]

^^ that is closer than mushrooms though. That quote above is only changing what the substrate of the 4 hydroxylation. All those chemicals are similar, almost the same. That is a very simple idea . But to make a substituted phenethylamine from mushrooms makes no sense.

And on what willow was replying too, if the brain filled in a lot of stuff and only inferred what the image was, you probably would nto see the tiny details in wood grain, or the small patterns in the background of paper currency.

 

[IGNVS]

yeah i know that would be hard to do, but with genetic engeneering you could completly change entire genes. the whole section that produces psilocybin could be taken out and put into another plant and you could engeneer a gene that would actualy make the 2ce from a substrate.

years of work im sure but its posible with todays technology. same problem as the whole putting thc into oranges sort of thing. its posible but no one is going to do it, you would need a whole team of scientists and one of the most technologicaly advanced labs on earth.

cactus would be alot easier though im sure.


as for your brain seeing things after your eyes do im sure thats true. try looking at those grains in wood right after you turn your vision there. if you try and look at the detail too fast it kinda hurts. and youll notice your eyes adjusting to focus on the grain.

everything we see is history, the further it is from us the older it is. imagine what galaxies would look like if light was instantaneous and didnt take thousands of years to get to us.