Clonazepam to Diazepam...Is it possible without any of the W/D's??

[Anon Ymous]

Currently on a regime of 4mg clonazepam a day. Clonazepam has lost it's anxiolytic magical ability, so I'm opting for a switch to diazepam. Now, I have a couple of queries here that the old fucks can help me answer...
I know that the Benzo Conversion Charts vary from 5 mg to 10 mg diazepam being the equivelant to 0.5mg clonazepam.

So if I was to switch over using the more seemingly accurate 5mg diazepam conversion rate (The Ashton Manual is great and all, but it's abundantly clear that the majority of people on that website have serious anxiety disorders, no jobs, and a lot of spare time in which they create petitions to ban drugs that help some people) , I'd have to be on 40mg diazepam daily, about 8 of the 5mg tablets.

Now, would I experience any withdrawal symptoms from switching from one benzo to another(4mg clonazepam to 40mg diazepam)? Any input would be greatly appreciated...

 

[Anon Ymous]

biga biga biggity bump...

 

[Mr Blonde]

You shouldn't experience much anxiety at all, maybe for a few days but the valium should be more then enough to cover it.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Haha bruz, the R Dog Mr. Blondizzle, let me tell you partner. The anxiety is the least Im worried about. The seizures and the never ending nights of physical pain beyond comprehension, the inability to connect with people, existing in life as though everywhere you go its a fog and nothing makes sense. 18 years old, 2 CT withdrawals so far, thanks a fuckload Mr. and Mrs. Health care Professionals.

Nevertheless, that's some good news. If I were to follow the Ashton manual and request 80 mg diazepam a day (going by there 1mg Clonazepam = 20mg Diazepam), I'd be kicked out of my long time family doctor's medical centre and get labelled as a doc hopper...:/

Oi Mr Blonde, which out of clonazepam and diazepam do you reckon is the better treatment for anxiety, in terms of effectiveness, (or if you wanna look at the recreational potential of both drugs), which do you prefer?

 

[Modulus]

Oi Mr Blonde, which out of clonazepam and diazepam do you reckon is the better treatment for anxiety, in terms of effectiveness, (or if you wanna look at the recreational potential of both drugs), which do you prefer?

Clonazepam hands down.

Coming from a person with a rather extensive knowledge and experience with benzo's, Diazepam has nothing on Clonazepam for its anxiety and recreation.

Valium is like a warm glass of milk in my opinion, under 40mg it does nothing for me at all.

Everyone is different though, i've come to realise that i have a natural benzo tolerance so it wouldn't surprise me if things differ for you.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Eh, I don't tend to fuck around with my medicine recreationally. What wonders me about this subject is that diazepam is a muscle relaxant, mild sedative, yet clonazepam is more anxiolytic/anti-epileptic in its effects, according to Wikipedia...Could it be that clonazepam's relatives are the hypnotic benzodiazepines (nitrazepam, flunitrazepam etc.), hence why some people tend to get particularly fucked up when they take clonazepam recreationally? Who knows?

But Modulus, I'll call you Mod, I withdrew from 2-4 mg a day clonazepam habit cold turkey with no one knowing. I'm now back on the medicine and it just ain't the same. 2mg doesn't relieve the worries, 4mg is the minimum. I just don't want to have to spend a good year or year and a half withdrawing from clonazepam slowly when it's suggested I increase my dose to 6mg a day by my trusted doctor.

Another thing, benzos ain't the evilest fucking drugs out. They can maintain there effectiveness, it's just that way too many people use the internet and find out the bad, bad side-effects of the benzo there on, and trick themselves into believing there so fucked when they have to withdraw. You have to be calm all by yourself before withdrawing, don't let the tablets do it for you.

One more thing before I fuck off, Rivotril would be a bitch to properly and slowly wean off in Australia, as the GP's have got limited info on treating the dependent patients whom they created by printing/writing out that piece of paper.

 

[Modulus]

Mate, i've been through patches where i was on 8-10mg of Clonazepam a day. I think what saves me though is the duration of use.

I never abuse them for long, maybe 1-2 months and then i either run out or want to stop. A few nights of really shitty sleep and a short temper then its all over. I dont think weaning off over the course of a year is a good idea, nor is upping the dose to 6mg a day. I'd do a much quicker taper than that, maybe over a month. Dropping the dose daily.

Also, benzo tolerance is inevitable. First time i tried clonazepam, i had 6mg and i lost 3 days of my life, complete amnesia the whole time. The last time i smashed it, i had 16mg and it made me wobbly and fucked but come on, 16mg is a ridiculous dose, enough to knock out an elephant.....you'd think anyway.

I do not advocate the use of Benzo's in this fashion at all, just explaining what i've experienced. Benzo tolerance builds quickly and before you know it, they don't do what they're supposed to anymore. This is all in the past, i don't really touch them much anymore. I started a thread a few days ago about some Xanax powder but thats more for times i actually need it, im over abusing them.

 

[Teddles]

You'd be better tapering of clonaz. to about 2mgs a day QiD, then 5mgs of valium QiD and then seeing how things are doing.

If your worried about having seziures i'd suggest sodium valporate or similar. steer clear of nitrazapam for sleep and go Atavin, i can't rate it enough, its the best benzo out there, the only problem its bout 50$ a box, but its worth it.

 

[Anon Ymous]

I've had Ativan before, it's not on the PBS.

Modulus, I was on long term clonazepam therapy. 2, mostly 4mg daily. I went cold turkey after 2 years and it was very intense. Lasted about 6 months in protracted withdrawal terms.

I started the 4mg Rivotril on the 3/09. Havent abused it. Should I stop now and switch to Valium 40mg while I still have a chance of avoiding the long term benzo use and subsequent withdrawal?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Haha bruz, the R Dog Mr. Blondizzle, let me tell you partner. The anxiety is the least Im worried about. The seizures and the never ending nights of physical pain beyond comprehension, the inability to connect with people, existing in life as though everywhere you go its a fog and nothing makes sense. 18 years old, 2 CT withdrawals so far, thanks a fuckload Mr. and Mrs. Health care Professionals.

Nevertheless, that's some good news. If I were to follow the Ashton manual and request 80 mg diazepam a day (going by there 1mg Clonazepam = 20mg Diazepam), I'd be kicked out of my long time family doctor's medical centre and get labelled as a doc hopper...:/

Oi Mr Blonde, which out of clonazepam and diazepam do you reckon is the better treatment for anxiety, in terms of effectiveness, (or if you wanna look at the recreational potential of both drugs), which do you prefer?

I like your style.

No, you should not have to worry about those WD effects when switching between benzodiazepines, as long as your on a sufficient amount to cover whatever you were on before.

Going back and re-reading your first post, I just wanna clear something up... are you switching meds to taper off or switching to regain the anxiolytic effects?

 

[Modulus]

Definitely switch to Valium now. Benzo's with longer half lives are easier to taper off, especially Valium. Clonazepam and Alprazolam are unbelievably difficult to stop without terrible W/D's so i'd switch to Valium as soon as you can.

It's not the strongest but its going to be easier to get off.

 

[Anon Ymous]

are you switching meds to taper off or switching to regain the anxiolytic effects?

Yes sir, that's what this post is about. Ever since I withdrew from the clonazepam, it just isn't the same...2mg used to be enough daily, now 4mg daily (after the withdrawal), and I just don't notice the effect this drug has on me, or is this an indication of a tolerance to the benzodiazepines, who knows? But I knows for one thing, I'm planning on switching meds for both reasons Mr. Blonde.

Reasons:
Valium is an anxiolytic, sedative, muscle relaxant...Rivotril is an anxiolytic and anti-epileptic drug (without sedation or the characteristics of other benzos, why do you think that on Rivotril's CMI it says dosages should not exceed 20mg clonazepam daily? Because it's a weak sedative!). Anxiety presents itself in both psychological and physiological ways, once you are tensed up/on edge, it's hard to maintain a calm train of thought, even harder if you got an excessive amount of anxious thoughts catching that same train. Make sense?
Also, I know that clonazepam is way more potent than diazepam, this meaning you need less of a dose.

Whats the fucking difference between taking Valium, an easier drug to withdraw from than clonazepam, at a higher milligram rate, then say taking Rivotril at lower milligram rates? Cost effectiveness, less 'pills to take' for the day? There's nothing different, it's all got to do with the persons reaction to the drug. Some people get better anxiety relief with Valium than some people who get better anxiety relief with Rivotril, and as I am aware of the long list of side effects associated with Rivotril, I'd rather go for Valium, and stick with it! I've had it before in a short term supply case, and it does the trick. The problem is the maximum tablet strength is 5 mg, and the bottle limit is 50! 8 tablets a day would last all of 6 days or so...4 x 50 bottles containing 5mg Valium would last 25 days. Oh shit, I'm rambling....

The unprofessional psychopath whom one can't work with, to answer your question. To Regain the anxiolytic effects and I'm awarded with an easy taper without any symptoms of the dreaded withdrawal present, are the reasons why I'm considering switching from the much-sought out after Rivotril to the 'less potent, I have to take more, it's fucking shit compared to K-PINS BRO!' Valium.

Mod man, you contradict yourself in this thread. Musta been a tad fucked up when writing the replies eh???? No harm. Strength doesn't mean shit, potency is related to the equivalent doses benzodiazepines are manufactured accordingly to. Xanax and Rivotril are equally potent, one has a short half life and a notriety for causing the worse BDZ w/d's, yet Rivotril is a long acting form of Xanax, with prolonged and sometimes an equally intense withdrawal symptoms to Xanax.

Thanks for the help fellas, I'll consult my trusted physician and propose my plan, after the end of year Examinations.

Now, let's stop talking about the bad shit associated with drugs. Our brains don't need this shit to better ourselves!

Thanks!

 

[Mr Blonde]

Yes sir, that's what this post is about. Ever since I withdrew from the clonazepam, it just isn't the same...2mg used to be enough daily, now 4mg daily (after the withdrawal), and I just don't notice the effect this drug has on me, or is this an indication of a tolerance to the benzodiazepines, who knows? But I knows for one thing, I'm planning on switching meds for both reasons Mr. Blonde.

From the many experiences I've read about in OD, benzodiazepine tolerance can be a long lasting killer.