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Clingy person in AA is stressing me out.

Mariposa

Mariposa

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
Messages
24,740
Location
California Republic
Hi TDS,

I'm at a loss for how to deal with a situation I've encountered in AA.

I have 10 days sober after a massive vodka binge that made it impossible for me to keep down food or water. I have very mixed feelings about AA, but I have decided to hit the program as hard as I hit the bottle. I am doing much, much better - the support at the meetings helps keep me focused and 100% sober aside from caffeine. My friends and family have noticed very favorably. My boyfriend and I have reconciled. I go to AA for the energy and the fellowship, not the dogma. And I haven't missed alcohol all that much. I'm happy with what I have now.

I have a homegroup which I love, a particularly affirming and educated mix of students, professionals and retirees, many with longtime sobriety. I am trying out a few different meetings other than my homegroup for variety. One of these is kind of a rough crowd. There are people there who live in their cars behind the building and have to ask other AA members if they can come over to shower or couchsurf, borrow money, etc. That does not happen at my homegroup.

And then there is "Casey". Casey is a 26 year old intersexed person who was raised male and now identifies as female. Casey has HIV and Hep C that she got from sharing a heroin needle. She's in Stage III liver failure. Her appearance is somewhat of a barrier to her working; she has never held a job other than selling dope. I like her because she's funny and has great stories. But she's invading the shit out of my boundaries and it's not cool.

Casey likes my style and thinks I have money to burn because I live independently (roommate), own a car and carry a bottle of water into AA meetings. I definitely do NOT have money to burn! My car is 18 years old, lol. I don't wear fancy or designer clothes. The boundary to which I most object, though, is that she thinks nothing of stroking my arm or my hair and laying her head on my shoulder because I smell good. She thinks it's "cute" when I get jumpy and move away. I'm not touchy-feely with strangers. I told her to knock it off and she giggled. Gross.

Yesterday Casey called me in a panic because she was about to relapse and give a dealer a blowjob for dope if I didn't go downtown (I was in a work meeting) and pick her up. I told her to call her sponsor or go to a meeting. She was bummed out and wanted to use because the college program she wanted to attend will not admit her...

because when she was living as a male, at age 22, she had a 14 year old girlfriend and went to prison for 3rd degree rape. She's a registered sex offender

No. Fuck no. I do not want to be associated with a rapist in any way, shape or form. The sex was allegedly consensual (there is no charge called "statutory rape" in my state, it's 3rd degree if with someone under age 16) but... fuck no.

I have done my best to avoid her for 2 days now. I can't do it forever - there's an AA BBQ that I am planning to attend this weekend because other people I have gotten to know and like will be there, and I'm looking forward to spending time with other sober alcoholics on a nice summer day.

The last conversation I had with her was that *I* should consider it MY fault if she relapses. I do not respond to threats and emotional blackmail. I am only responsible for my own sobriety and progress. I don't want to be rude or give the impression I lack sympathy, because I do have a core belief and always have that almost no one is irredeemable. But this is a touchy-feely sick fuck who took advantage of an adolescent. I don't want anything to do with her. Part of me wants to confront her and tell her to stop fucking asking me for shit. The other, non-confrontational part is saying "take it easy, don't make waves".

Any advice, wisdom, suggestions for me? Many thanks and love and health to my TDS friends.
 
i think this may be as easy saying casey hey I like and respect you but I need you to respect some boundaries that I will tell you, respect of these boundaries will allow us to get along splendid, ignoring these boundaries will cause or relationship to end.. here is what i need you to avoid when in contact with me as contact like this with people makes me feel uncomfortable and I will not put up with it. Oh and whenever you run into a person that is attempting to manipulate you just call them on their shit... say something like casy i will not be manipulated buy My addiction, you or anyone else.. and if you relapse it will be your own damn fault;)
 
Yeah lots of sick people hang out in the rooms. They feed off sympathy and the decency of others. You are not the first peraon she/he has done this too. I would start ignoring the calls be rude in public make it clear that you are not friends.
 
It's not your job to cater to his/her/its every need or rather want. Be assertive next time about how you feel when he makes you uncomfortable or wants to do something you want no part of. More than likely he is just trying to find an easy mark to suck sympathy from or manipulate you materially. The "emotional vampire" type. Go to the meetings for yourself and only for yourself to help yourself get better. Some NA meetings I would go to I knew right away or within a week or two that the majority of the people there would be counter productive to my recovery or just people I did not get along with or want to be around. So you may have to just find another meeting for that night if it comes down to it. And anyone that's so open to telling strangers they have a rape charge would tell me they don't feel an ounce of guilt over it and would likely do it again. Sick fuckers.
 
Well first off, I'm glad to hear the whole AA thing works for ya. I've never had very good experiences with it, but it seems to do wonders for those with the right personality type (seems like it works best for more interpersonal people).

But to the subject at hand, eh, I'm personally a pretty big fan of honesty whenever possible, so for the most part I'd perhaps make it clear that you're feeling sort of crowded and that while you respect and like her, she's gotta give you some damn space. Imo that's always a good first step, especially because then you know for a fact that you've put it all out there, so you don't have to feel guilty taking any further steps in the future if they choose to ignore what you said. It does sound like you're kind of letting this whole thing stew in you, which isn't necessarily fair and one has to be careful of; it's real easy to let your anger get away from you in situations like that where your mind just keeps building up with rage until you finally explode when the other person barely realized anything was wrong.


One thing I was thinking though...seeing as this individual had a girlfriend before (do they still have man parts?), is it possible that they're bisexual and attracted to you, and that's why they're all with the creepy touching and clinging? Actually, now that I think about it, I'm REALLY wondering if that's the case. It would make perfect sense with their seemingly fairly immature nature; what you're describing sounds exactly like some kid in high school who's really attracted to a girl, but she's clearly not into him so he just tries to act like her friend in the hopes that she'll change her mind or whatever. Of course the guy is still attracted to her, so in the mean time he's just creepily touchy-feely with the girl (which is unbelievably depressing and pitiful to watch). Obviously flirting also involves teasing and light antagonism to gain each others' attention and create contact, which I imagine is what she/he views your objections to their touching as; they're probably just really happy to be getting your attention. Plus I imagine she/he really wants to touch you in general, so even if you say stop they likely don't want to. I mean, that's what being attracted to someone is about, you're ATTRACTED to them. You want to touch them and be near them. And smell their hair. Indeed, there are few things in the world that smell better than a woman's neck/hair, although I imagine pheromones have something to do with that.

And maybe that's why she was talking about giving the dealer a blowjob, maybe she thought she could make you jealous or maybe she just gets off on talking to you about sexual acts? Maybe they were hoping you'd respond by saying "Oh, a BJ? I sure enjoy performing those and find doing so very arousing. Should I give you one?!". And perhaps her threats of relapse are just an empty means of getting your attention? Maybe she's hoping that emotional blackmail will make you realize you like her too? And she thinks it's cute when you get jumpy? Sure, it is kind of cute when a lass gets jumpy...when you find said woman cute to begin with.

So yeah, like I said, now that I think of it I'm really wondering if that couldn't be the reason for all this. Maybe I'm wrong, obviously I'm not there and I could be misinterpreting the entire thing, it's just that, like I said, this individual sounds fairly immature, and what they're doing sounds suspiciously like immature and desperate attempts at flirtation.
Yes Mariposa, I believe Casey may wish to ravage your body, to have his/her way with you as they did with their 14 year old girlfriend. How do you feel about that? Would you oblige Casey's wishes? I mean, they sound like such a charming, charismatic, well-grounded individual, how could you possibly resists?!
 
Be honest.

Sex with kids aint cool.. Don't speak to me and ffs if you touch me again i'll break your arm.. I am not your friend.

Fuck that bitch off. Sounds like a fckin idiot.
 
Yeah. But sometimes a "don't poke or tease the animals" is a good approach.. that being said I would not put myself ina sketchy position.. or rather a position where you could be vulnerable. As this person may well be pretty sick and sketchy.. man I just got really creeped out at the thought of having a chester caressing my body. Yeah.. tell her to please never touch you ever again.. as the touching could be perverse in nature, and could lead to something allot more serious.
 
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Yuck.

Don't take on this guilt. This doesn't sound like a very supportive person to be around. Don't let her do this to you.
 
This has happened to me also.

The kindest thing you can do is play yourself down and build her up (without YOU being involved). If you have to be cold, you're doing her a favour, cause if she is depending on you, she obviously has no sense of self, and indulging her is unfair.

It's a tough one but distance, she'll find her way (whatever it is). AND stop being too helpful ffs! ;) /sometimes it's an ego trip without us even knowing( no offense, as I speak from experience) ;)

Gud luck Mari <3
 
Congratulations on your decision to stop drinking! This Casey person sounds very needy and immature. It's sad in a way because I imagine she doesn't get support from family and probably doesn't have real friends anymore. So I'm guessing she sees the people in AA as an extension of her family and like someone else mentioned I'm sure you're not her first victim.

You will just have to let her down gently. I would hate to see things get ugly. But with people like this who encroach on others, you can't predict how they will take what they perceive as rejection. I would keep your interactions short over the phone. Don't even take calls if it's a bad time. Tell her straight up that at this stage of your recovery, your needs come first. You have every right to keep her at arm's length and don't feel guilty for it.

Some people don't respond to subtle hints. You may have to just be blunt and tell her to back off. I would stay away from that particular group if you know she will be there. Remind her if she ever makes that threat of relapsing that you are not her sponsor and this is not fair to you. Friends don't do that and you didn't sign up for this crap. Does she know where you live?
 
22 with a 14 year old is straight up rape the age of consent in my state is 18 now at 18 i was with a 17 year old technically statutory rape but i don't see the problem there but i feel once your 18 16 is off limits once your 20 17 is off limits now at 24 i often ask to see a chicks ID as to not break my own rules but i think anyone would consider a 22 year old fucking a 14 year old just plain rape if i were you i would call him/her and say "yo i don't associate with rapists leave me the fuck alone" but i like being forward to put it nicely
 
Could you possibly discuss it with your sponsor, or other people you're close to at your meeting? I'm not sure on the rules in regards to that in AA, but perhaps they would have some valuable input.
 
Thanks all. I went to my usual lunch meeting yesterday (going today as well) where she does not go. I am still off the sauce, 12 days now. :)

I wasn't planning to attend the early evening meeting where I would no doubt see Casey. She texted me with "hey [Mariposa] its your best friend Casey, are you coming to the afternoon meeting today xoxo love you" -- *puke*

Regarding the touching, I am very naive. Since Casey was raised male and still has majority male characteristics despite taking estrogen, she probably touched my skin and my hair because they felt girly, and she wants very much to live convincingly as female. Whatever the cause, though, it's unwelcome. I am responsible for my own sobriety only.

T.Calderone, no, she does not know where I live other than the general vicinity. I haven't had anyone from AA to my house. A couple men and one woman who clearly wasn't getting serious about sobriety have asked me for rides and I have declined. That doesn't happen at my homegroup, so I'm sticking with them.

Footscrazy - I haven't yet chosen a sponsor because I'm torn between two, both women in their 40s, married/kids, 5+ years sobriety. They're both awesome. I have spoken with a few people in AA about this and they all agree I should keep my distance, that it is Casey's own sponsor she should be calling if she is triggered to relapse. They all said that meeting is a bit too rough for people to get anything meaningful done in AA, that there are very few people who attend that one who are truly committed to sobriety. There is a lot of cross-talk about criminal activity.

Everyone who has disdain for Casey for Casey's behavior re the 14 year old - you're right, and I do too. It's lower than dirt. Her behavior toward me is also disrespectful to the fact that I'm in a relationship with a man I love (who is not an alcoholic). I'm 33 and old enough to fight off unwanted advances; the last time she started stroking my arm in a meeting, I grabbed my notebook and scrawled in big huge letters "KNOCK THAT OFF, IT'S ANNOYING". No. I can never be her friend. She was tried and convicted by a jury for a sexual offense.

Thanks to all who have shared. I just sent the following in response to Casey: "Hey, I don't mean to be rude or avoidant. What you told me about your sex offense disturbed me greatly and I cannot associate with you." Her response was "I knew I shouldn't have told you, don't you understand the girl fucking lied to me, oh well, your loss, I'll always love you" and I responded "It's a really big deal. I hope you stay sober and get the help you need."

Well, my conscience is clear. As others have said, AA/NA does have participants who prey on the newly sober. 12 days isn't a lot for me. The difference this time is that I realize I am in AA for the level of understanding and support, to share wisdom and adaptive coping strategies and live happier lives without being burdened by addiction. Alcohol was harming my stomach, my moods, and now that I'm not drinking, I'm not suffering the way I was before.
 
just read this thread.
big congrats on those txt's u sent.
that was very healthy,establishing proper boundaries.
in this case,"don't contact me".

again,you did good.
I have some of the same problems and I never know what to do.
 
Congrats on everything, Mari--the sobriety and handling the situation with Casey. The neediness of a person like that tragically works against them and it is hard to know what to do. The bottom line is that you are not responsible to do anything other than protect your own boundaries.<3
 
Unfortunately there is always lost souls in the program, and people who are confused with what is right and wrong; Especially in the rooms. It sounds as if you are handling the situation with Casey quite well. Keep up the good work!

Bluelight is always here for you!
 
Well, my conscience is clear. As others have said, AA/NA does have participants who prey on the newly sober. 12 days isn't a lot for me. The difference this time is that I realize I am in AA for the level of understanding and support, to share wisdom and adaptive coping strategies and live happier lives without being burdened by addiction. Alcohol was harming my stomach, my moods, and now that I'm not drinking, I'm not suffering the way I was before.
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This is the present truth. <3 You look after yourself, as best you can.


To re-iterate others comments, Well managed girl! I love the way you are always so emotionally articulate...it's so refreshing. :) You seem to be doing good with yourself and I love the way you reach out to people and share your dilemmas, it's the mark of a person with so much integrity, hope you are aware of that! ;)
Having known you from your posts, you appear to be so warm and open-minded, yet grounded; that's a hard juggling-act. Be well, and mind yourself with those manipulative people who misread your kindness/enjoyment as 'opportunity'.
<3
 
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Captain.Heroin said:
Don't associate with people like that. This is the #1 reason why I would never do AA.
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I can certainly see your point. If you decide you ever do, contact someone from your local office, tell them a bit about what you're looking for in a meeting. I was lucky I found a great one early on. If the only meeting I had attended was the one where I met Casey, I'd have definitely been turned off from the program. I really wasn't comfortable with the cross-talk about how easy it would be to hotwire my car or the showing off of drug-related tattoos. :sus: I was definitely being looked at as fresh meat there.

Thanks Asclepius. Day 13! I'm definitely thinking more clearly and handling the day-to-day annoyances better than I was when I was drinking. My stomach has done a complete turnaround - no more bellyaches or nausea. 2013 has been an absolute shit sandwich for many reasons. I'm hopeful it continues to turn around. This is my first real roadblock - everyone else has been great, tremendously helpful and wise. Knowing what I know now, that Casey just goes to prey on people and is not at all serious about not drinking or shooting dope again, it's not hard to leave a creepy friendship behind. C-R-E-E-P-Y!
 
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