Clear the air on Suboxone...

[Cheshire]

Apologies for the long winded nature of this thread (more like a yarn or a full knitted sweater)

First off I am not a physician or an expert on pharmaceuticals. This is just a response to what I see people stating as a matter of fact to other people in various threads. Hopefully they read this and other articles that give a much more thorough list of properties and benefits.
I do know a little bit about opiates, and that knowledge is based on use and research. And the use of one has led to the use and research of this maintenance drug called Suboxone. I have been taking it for almost two months daily. I'd like to clear the air about a few things people seem to either confuse and/or have been misinformed on regarding the two main ingredients in suboxone.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=499087 use this link if you need to know anything. I should have read this first and just replied to the posts that were getting things a little wrong.

Suboxone will not provide the same euphoria that a full agonist provides but it certainly produces a pleasant "buzz" about 45min-1 hour after the dose is dissolved in the mouth. This feeling generally lasts at a noticeable intensity for several hours (even after taking the same dose for two months). This may not be true for everyone.

I hope everyone is well, playing safe and smart. All I can suggest is that you use in a way that gets you the most for the least. Least meaning, the negative impact that the fun may cause physically,emotionally and financially. You have to survive it to have enjoyed it..and on and on..!

 

[ro4eva]

So Naloxone P.O. is completely ineffective? I had no idea.

 

[JamtasticX]

The main and functioning drug is buprenorphine. The reason I say "functioning drug" is because the second drug that makes the drug suboxone is called Naloxone. Naloxone was added to prevent the drug from being injected. Naloxone is always a ratio of 1:4 to buprenorphine. When Saboxone is taken sublingually the Naloxone does nothing, that is to say, it does not do what it was put there to do. If Suboxone is injected intravenously the Naloxone causes severe withdrawal symptoms. The Naloxone is referred to as a full opiate antagonist. Being an antagonist it fights off the molecular interaction between opiates and the receptors in the brain. It is quite interesting how it does it's job when taken one way and it does nothing when taken another. It has to do with the size of the Naloxone molecule. It is too large to pass through the lining in the mouth or nasal cavity so it is forced through the gastrointestinal tract which neutralizes it's effects due to it's first pass characteristics. When taken properly the Naloxone has no function. Sublingual dosing is the prescribed method to neutralize the Naloxone.

The main ingredient buprenorphine is itself a very potent opiate. It is classified as a partial agonist. I think that it is classified this way because it is able to remove all other opiate molecules from the receptors and replaces instead of joining them. It a has a much longer half life than most full agonists and remains active for 24-36 hours. Like it's paired ingredient naloxone, it is rendered neutral or ineffective if swallowed due to its first pass nature. Contrary to what people say, it is a very effective pain reliever, even in small doses. This is truer when buprenorphine is administered intravenously.

It's become pretty common knowledge by those in the know that naloxone doesn't do anything, even injected. The reason for this is because it's in a small percentage to the bupe, and the bupe has a higher affinity. See below and you'll understand what this means.

Naloxone is a full opiod antagonist, but that does not mean it prevents interactions between opiod molecules and receptors. It is a opiod molecule itself. If it were to work as intended it would bind to the opiate receptors itself, and as long as it has a higer affintity it would block opiates with lower affinity's from binding untill it wore off. Bupe has a higher affinity for naloxone, and naloxone has a small half life to begin with. It won't cause withdrawals because it won't be able to bind. The bupe itself can cause withdrawals, in theroy any weaker opiate with a stronger affinity can cause withdrawals, it has to do with how many receptors are filled.

The reason bupe is a partial agonist is because at some sites it acts as an agonist, and at others it acts as an antagonist. It "removes" other opiods because it has a high affinity, and can take up a large amount of receptors. If you filled half your receptors with bupe, you could still fill the half with heroin, or whatever.

Here's a link to the bupe megathread where all this discussion takes place:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=499087

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

You can still inject Suboxone without causing any withdrawal symptoms. Th Naloxone is a scare tactic. There is a megathread somewhere on this site about Suboxone. This knowledge has been discussed plenty times before. No offense.

 

[Cheshire]

Thanks for the corrections....I was close. I was going from memory and it was late.
Chemistry is a fascinating thing.
So they chose the buprenorphine for it's strength as an opioid, length of half life and it's affinity for the opiate receptors? And they chose the naloxone for the bupes affinity to it?
I got most of my info from clinic pamphlets (which are printed with abstinence being the tone) and from a Dr. Jeffery Junig (I may have misspelled his last name) who is a clinic doctor and also a recovering user. He is very candid in his manner and very pro suboxone for use as a maintenance medication.
www.suboxonetalkzone.com

 

[Cheshire]

No offense taken.....absolutely none. I was up late and read some threads about using other opiates while on suboxone and drug testing and found people were getting things criss crossed or wrong is all. I am rarely posting, and I figured I saw something that made me want to write and I went to town. I also click on links like I am playing wak-a-mole. I wouldn't have wrote anything in the suboxone section because there is nothing to disagree with there and I couldn't possibly add anything of value there except a thanks for someones time. This site is an incredible resource ....alot of smart people out here.

 

[JamtasticX]

Thanks for the corrections....I was close. I was going from memory and it was late.
Chemistry is a fascinating thing.
So they chose the buprenorphine for it's strength as an opioid, length of half life and it's affinity for the opiate receptors? And they chose the naloxone for the bupes affinity to it?
I got most of my info from clinic pamphlets (which are printed with abstinence being the tone) and from a Dr. Jeffery Junig (I may have misspelled his last name) who is a clinic doctor and also a recovering user. He is very candid in his manner and very pro suboxone for use as a maintenance medication.
www.suboxonetalkzone.com

A lot of Dr's and people who work at sub clinics, have no idea what they're talking about sadly. The naloxone has no point