• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe

Civic Duty? (Does not exist anymore?)

Mass Psychosis sounds like a pretty fair diagnosis of where we are now? Shit (apparently) at least Hitler could boost the economy (When push comes to shove playing with ppl's money will change minds; that may be our silver lining).
Foreigner said:
I studied WWII history extensively in university.

In Germany, the people who initially resisted were a small minority. Mostly academics and some lower level bureaucrats. The most vocal people were purged early on. The overwhelming majority of Germany went along with the rise in power, at least outwardly. Secretly, there were many undermining the system (like Schindler), who pretended to go along with it. Historians debate why so many people complied. I believe it was a mass psychosis event, similar to what happened during covid.

With mass psychosis, if there is a situation of intense fear with no clear solution, if the fear gets high enough, you can dangle any kind of fake cause in front of people's minds and they will grab onto that cause in order to experience relief from the fear.

Germany came out of WWI and the Treaty of Versailles as a devastated nation. Hitler was actually a really great economist. He entered the political scene when Germany was suffering from hyperinflation and the economy was out of control. People were starving. The situation was dire. He gave the middle finger to the Treaty of Versailles, disobeyed all of its requirements, and proceeded to re-industrialize Germany. He factually lifted the German people out of poverty. The countries in the best position to stop Hitler early on, Britain and France, did not act and instead chose appeasement.
Click to expand...


Foreigner said:
The sad truth is that the majority of people obey the government and media. If the government and media instruct people to hate someone/something, most will do it, without question. I experienced that during covid. I refused the vaccine and refused to go along with the bogus protocols. If the government created concentration camps for people like me and told everyone that it was for the greater good, people who I saw every day would've turned me in. I had people in my community who I knew for years literally tell me to my face that I deserved to get covid and die for refusing to follow bogus protocols. I am still traumatized from seeing this group-think psychology.

In the 1963 Milgram experiment, when subjects were ordered to administer increasingly lethal shocks to other participants (the shocks weren't real, but the people didn't know that), about 65% of the subjects obeyed authority when they were told that the next shock they would administer would kill the person. That means only 35% had the courage to say no or to remove themselves from the experiment. First of all, imagine obeying the order to shock someone in the first place, but then imagine being told that, "Ok, we've reached the highest level of shock you can deliver by pressing the button. If you press the button, the shock WILL KILL the individual." And 65% simply followed orders and did it? And this was an experimental environment with ONE variable, it wasn't the real world which is much more complex.

The sad thing about mass psychosis is that 20% of people remain on that program for life. Even when the situation changes and there is clear evidence that it was a hoax, they still carry on the program until the day they die. That's why it took so long for post-WWII Germany to de-root the anti-Jew psychology from its population. It took generations to weed it out. You basically have to wait for the old timers to die for the program to die with them. Even then, they taught their children, so the psychosis can be passed on in other ways. Hence why we still have neo-Nazism in Europe and Jews get blamed every time the world goes wrong.
Click to expand...

That first sentence hits RINGS VERY TRUE. Conformity is the achille's heel of humanity (In my not so humble opinion). GOD BLESS YOU FOR BRINGING THE MILGRIM STUDIES UP AND HIGHLIGHTING THEM. (Truly you have no idea how often I want to do that than think -- 'everyone must know' -- Read that part 65% ( I remembered it being in the high 80s low 90s, what a pessimist I am - thank you I hate people idk 25% less)

Good we have some common ground - I also refused to get the COVID vaccine (as I just didn't feel the science was there yet, sorry). Experienced many of the same "descriminations" I guess you'd say -- My mother and I drove 3 hours to see a cousin's baby that had just been born. They did not allow us inside the house because we had no Covid Vaccine - I still have like $100 JP dinosaur laying around as I quit feeling giving after watching other family members just lie and say "Yea we got it" and kinda glance at us to see if we were gunna snitch em out or not -- Messed up. People would run up to you with retina scanners for your temp - and I wont lie I almost put the first one down! (Stranger appears out of nowhere *Not inside the establishment* coming straight for ya holding a gun shaped object --- Yea it Irked both of us that day)

I don't know if I would go as far as traumatized from Covid--- definitely MORE traumatized by US citizens being disappeared/unalived by what is effectively 'the secret police' - watching authoritarianism move towards fascism. The constitution being ignored and losing rights by the day--- such as the 1st and 4th (glad I'm not still on Fb; looks like I timed my departure well cuz I would be stirring the pot)

COVID was a good preview of how easy it would be to push us into group think and I definitely agree there were a whole cast of bad actors that took massive benefit. Overall SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE though -- I can understand that a little more *uncontrollable external force = unknown unknown variable?*
If there is one thing I will give Trump credit for it is recognizing when a grift worked than employing it himself!

(Let noone forget Trump is the one that signed the bill pulling CDC oversight from the very lab in Wuhan accused -- as you know businessman save money, why wast us$ on that?)
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
(Let noone forget Trump is the one that signed the bill pulling CDC oversight from the very lab in Wuhan accused -
Click to expand...

Donald Trump did not sign a bill to pull CDC oversight from the Wuhan lab, his administration pulled a grant from a US-based nonprofit that was a long-time collaborator with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) and later signed an executive order restricting funding for certain foreign research. That collaborator did not have oversight capabilities and only shared data and research that was the outcome. That collaborator was free to continue the arrangement with the lab, but under their own costs.

Let's keep facts straight.
 
Cheshire_Kat said:
Donald Trump did not sign a bill to pull CDC oversight from the Wuhan lab, his administration pulled a grant from a US-based nonprofit that was a long-time collaborator with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) and later signed an executive order restricting funding for certain foreign research. That collaborator did not have oversight capabilities and only shared data and research that was the outcome. That collaborator was free to continue the arrangement with the lab, but under their own costs.

Let's keep facts straight.
Click to expand...

Good point and facts are important -- Trumps Administration set the dominoes falling (His signature was never required on this?) -- wait "Later signed an executive order restricting funding for certain foreign research" (Like the Wuhan lab)

I agree and thank you for sorting that out (Honest mistake, if I'm wrong always mention it!) -- Feels like there is still alot of causation--correlation between his signature on that exec order and a global pandemic breaking out?
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Good point and facts are important -- Trumps Administration set the dominoes falling (His signature was never required on this?) -- wait "Later signed an executive order restricting funding for certain foreign research" (Like the Wuhan lab)

I agree and thank you for sorting that out (Honest mistake, if I'm wrong always mention it!) -- Feels like there is still alot of causation--correlation between his signature on that exec order and a global pandemic breaking out?
Click to expand...
There may very well be causation, but facts remain facts. All I am attempting to do is get facts out there.
 
I agree and thank you for that -- and again, always correct me. I appreciate it. As my understanding was only from signing the exec order onward (And I may have been hyperbole'd or semantic's when I heard it)
 
Foreigner said:
I studied WWII history extensively in university.

In Germany, the people who initially resisted were a small minority. Mostly academics and some lower level bureaucrats. The most vocal people were purged early on. The overwhelming majority of Germany went along with the rise in power, at least outwardly. Secretly, there were many undermining the system (like Schindler), who pretended to go along with it. Historians debate why so many people complied. I believe it was a mass psychosis event, similar to what happened during covid.

With mass psychosis, if there is a situation of intense fear with no clear solution, if the fear gets high enough, you can dangle any kind of fake cause in front of people's minds and they will grab onto that cause in order to experience relief from the fear. The cause doesn't even have to make total sense. The need for fear relief takes over. Similarly, when you provide a one-solution to that cause, people believe in it, even if it doesn't make total sense, and especially when the people around them also seem to believe in it.

Germany came out of WWI and the Treaty of Versailles as a devastated nation. Hitler was actually a really great economist. He entered the political scene when Germany was suffering from hyperinflation and the economy was out of control. People were starving. The situation was dire. He gave the middle finger to the Treaty of Versailles, disobeyed all of its requirements, and proceeded to re-industrialize Germany. He factually lifted the German people out of poverty. The countries in the best position to stop Hitler early on, Britain and France, did not act and instead chose appeasement.

So when Hitler shifted his economic policy to social policy against the enemies of the state, most people obeyed directly or passively because they feared the former chaos if Hitler were challenged. They also redirected their fears about chaos to the people that Hitler persecuted, even though it didn't totally make sense. But that's how mass psychosis functions.

The sad truth is that the majority of people obey the government and media. If the government and media instruct people to hate someone/something, most will do it, without question. I experienced that during covid. I refused the vaccine and refused to go along with the bogus protocols. If the government created concentration camps for people like me and told everyone that it was for the greater good, people who I saw every day would've turned me in. I had people in my community who I knew for years literally tell me to my face that I deserved to get covid and die for refusing to follow bogus protocols. I am still traumatized from seeing this group-think psychology. Humans are not safe to be around when group psychology takes hold. All you have to do is suspend normal reality just a little bit and people lose their shit completely. Then anyone who offers what seems like a reasonable way out, people will cling to like their life depends upon it. It's scary.

In the 1963 Milgram experiment, when subjects were ordered to administer increasingly lethal shocks to other participants (the shocks weren't real, but the people didn't know that), about 65% of the subjects obeyed authority when they were told that the next shock they would administer would kill the person. That means only 35% had the courage to say no or to remove themselves from the experiment. First of all, imagine obeying the order to shock someone in the first place, but then imagine being told that, "Ok, we've reached the highest level of shock you can deliver by pressing the button. If you press the button, the shock WILL KILL the individual." And 65% simply followed orders and did it? And this was an experimental environment with ONE variable, it wasn't the real world which is much more complex.

The sad thing about mass psychosis is that 20% of people remain on that program for life. Even when the situation changes and there is clear evidence that it was a hoax, they still carry on the program until the day they die. That's why it took so long for post-WWII Germany to de-root the anti-Jew psychology from its population. It took generations to weed it out. You basically have to wait for the old timers to die for the program to die with them. Even then, they taught their children, so the psychosis can be passed on in other ways. Hence why we still have neo-Nazism in Europe and Jews get blamed every time the world goes wrong.
Click to expand...
Jews have been blamed throughout history stretching back 3 thousand years.they are homo sapiens just like every modern human who suffer the same greed ,violence, persecution of other peoples and every other negative traits that us wise apes hold,of course the same is true on the flip side ,Jew's can be just as kind and forgiving etc as all other sapiens through history .there is no difference between modern humans we are all the same ,no such thing as the devout Christian or the noble savage ,are brains are all wired the same only circumstances in society changes the way humans/sapiens behave.throughout history there has been multiple human beings roaming the planet at the same time ,its strange now there is only 1 ,homo sapiens .strange indeed .it would lead you to believe that other humans were to alike but to different to be tolerated .this is the mind of the wise man
 
Last edited:
When does "voting against the other side" become an unwise way to vote and approach politics? You're looking at it with Donald Trump and his voters. Many of them are entertained by this man for some reason, while others think he's great for their pocket book. The worst thing is that if it doesn't get bad enough because of his administration, they'll keep voting for similar people.
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
^ I do not necessarily disagree

But the alternative option is stick your head in the sand and leave your ass in the air?

Do we not hold the citizens of 1930s Germany complicit? (The nazi party at least - I am no historian but from what I understand it was a 'godfather-esque' join the party offer?)
Click to expand...
There were no doubt some Germans were complicit but once the regime took total power self preservation kicks in ,not just for yourself but for your family and children.who but only the bravest of people would jeopardise their children's safety .I know I definitely wouldnt. It's a basic instinct in all of us to protect those who are closest to us .if that means being Complicit then I would have certainly followed the party line .the thought of seeing your child harmed is to much for 99 percent of the population which is why we should celebrate the courage of the few
 
I think when that is your only political view -- "Vote who is in power out" -- which kind of implies voting against the incumbant(?) (Statistically, not true at all)

If you evaluate both sides policy and decide "This is the lesser of two evils and I'm mainly voting for this person to prevent what that person plans to do" -- I don't see a problem with or better alternative at the current time.

Other than actively being involved in the process and getting things moving ---- but right now that feels riskier than a coke run to Tijuana.

It would be nice to vote FOR someone you believe in. I think Obama represented that for Alot of people and that is (part) of why (Alot) of people felt genuinely good about voting for the first time ever.... Than he did things I disagree with of course but surprise turns out he was a politician lol
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
I think when that is your only political view -- "Vote who is in power out" -- which kind of implies voting against the incumbant(?) (Statistically, not true at all)

If you evaluate both sides policy and decide "This is the lesser of two evils and I'm mainly voting for this person to prevent what that person plans to do" -- I don't see a problem with or better alternative at the current time.

Other than actively being involved in the process and getting things moving ---- but right now that feels riskier than a coke run to Tijuana.

It would be nice to vote FOR someone you believe in. I think Obama represented that for Alot of people and that is (part) of why (Alot) of people felt genuinely good about voting for the first time ever.... Than he did things I disagree with of course but surprise turns out he was a politician lol
Click to expand...
I don't follow American politics closely but was Obama a success
 
My wife's mother was born in Germany and grew up there in the Nazi era. She told me it was stifling even as a child. She had to join "Young Women's" groups and no one could even breathe a word of dissent. The first thing the Nazi's did was register guns, then confiscate them when the list was completed. Entire families would disappear over night.
 
lost weekend said:
There were no doubt some Germans were complicit but once the regime took total power self preservation kicks in ,not just for yourself but for your family and children.who but only the bravest of people would jeopardise their children's safety .I know I definitely wouldnt. It's a basic instinct in all of us to protect those who are closest to us .if that means being Complicit then I would have certainly followed the party line .the thought of seeing your child harmed is to much for 99 percent of the population which is why we should celebrate the courage of the few
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone has any right to judge that opinion. I do not have a child - or family. I do have a mother and cat -- access to all the TV and the internet. Hobbies, routines -- a pretty decent and convenient life.

I would like to think I would have went down in a blaze of glory but back than your LOVED ONES, Pets, yo-yo or ball in a cup or w/e was prolly pretty good sounding compared to death also!

lost weekend said:
I don't follow American politics closely but was Obama a success
Click to expand...
I think he did a decent job.

I highly disagree with (and I'm not even positive on this but pretty sure) him bailing out major corporations and allowing the stockholders to end up SOL/homeless etc was pretty cold. I also was not on board with all of his drone strikes.

I still feel he was the lesser of two evils but am no longer pumped on him as a human being as they once had me. (First election I was legal to vote in so I can't pretend I did great research on him; I tried...)

***edit*** my emoji also doesn't quite fit -- I just mean Wow -- it is wild that happened at all and that we are still that historically close to it. Thank you for sharing that I imagine it must have been tough on her but it is very valuable insight!
 
Last edited:
Cheshire_Kat said:
My wife's mother was born in Germany and grew up there in the Nazi era. She told me it was stifling even as a child. She had to join "Young Women's" groups and no one could even breathe a word of dissent. The first thing the Nazi's did was register guns, then confiscate them when the list was completed. Entire families would disappear over night.
Click to expand...
Sorry I would have gave you a more fitting emoji but I don't know how to ,just a thumbs up .im new to the world of emoji and the ones that dance around lol
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
I don't think anyone has any right to judge that opinion. I do not have a child - or family. I do have a mother and cat -- access to all the TV and the internet. Hobbies, routines -- a pretty decent and convenient life.

I would like to think I would have went down in a blaze of glory but back than your LOVED ONES, Pets, yo-yo or ball in a cup or w/e was prolly pretty good sounding compared to death also!
Click to expand...
I have never lost a child or partner but I'm sure I would collapse in grief if I had to witness them being harmed
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
I don't think anyone has any right to judge that opinion. I do not have a child - or family. I do have a mother and cat -- access to all the TV and the internet. Hobbies, routines -- a pretty decent and convenient life.

I would like to think I would have went down in a blaze of glory but back than your LOVED ONES, Pets, yo-yo or ball in a cup or w/e was prolly pretty good sounding compared to death also!


I think he did a decent job.

I highly disagree with (and I'm not even positive on this but pretty sure) him bailing out major corporations and allowing the stockholders to end up SOL/homeless etc was pretty cold. I also was not on board with all of his drone strikes.

I still feel he was the lesser of two evils but am no longer pumped on him as a human being as they once had me. (First election I was legal to vote in so I can't pretend I did great research on him; I tried...)

***edit*** my emoji also doesn't quite fit -- I just mean Wow -- it is wild that happened at all and that we are still that historically close to it. Thank you for sharing that I imagine it must have been tough on her but it is very valuable insight!
Click to expand...
Is it true he spent more time on the golf course than any other president or is that just rubbish from the otherside
 
I am pretty sure that is rubbish and that title would go to our current president who sold the PGA to saudi Arabia, owns like all the golf courses and claims to win big titles (They let him or he cheats, you can see him cheating recently monte burns caddy dropping a ball by the hole style)

Ill have to look that one up for you but I doubt it --- It was a giant deal when he wore a tan suit in the oval office one time -- another cuz he took his blazer off (as one does when working) He got maligned by the other side (For reasons I want to say are fairly obvious and rooted in Americana)

It is actually WOODROW WILSON for 10 alec
 
woodrow Wilson with over 1200 rounds of golf. (Is a round 18 holes I presume, that is A LOT of golf for anyone)

Obama 333 rounds. (Biblical lol) -- Still Alot of golf

Trump 308 in term 1 -- also too much golf

Someone that plays golf tell me roughly how long it takes to play 18 holes at one of the nicest 'greens' or w/e on earth so I can time tally it!! for shits and giggles
 
Yeh forgot about that.unfortunatly he's got 1 on my door step .I always regarded him as a pompous git but don't know his politics, maybe he will make America great again ,he might need to invent a time machine and get himself back 70 years ,which I believe was a boom in America but I only know from tv and other media ,maybe the 50s weren't so great
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
woodrow Wilson with over 1200 rounds of golf. (Is a round 18 holes I presume, that is A LOT of golf for anyone)

Obama 333 rounds. (Biblical lol) -- Still Alot of golf

Trump 308 in term 1 -- also too much golf

Someone that plays golf tell me roughly how long it takes to play 18 holes at one of the nicest 'greens' or w/e on earth so I can time tally it!! for shits and giggles
Click to expand...
Prob less workload and foreign travell maybe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top