Chronic pain vs addiction

[Psynaught]

First, my title is not 100% accurate. I do have chronic pain in my feet (Plantar fasciitis) but during the day (sitting most of the time) I just deal with it. For example I did a painful calf workout yesterday and then the treadmill. It hurts pretty badly but I am able to handle it. Then when I get home at night I take 4.5 grams of Kratom and soak my feet in hot water, and that gets me through, no problem.

But starting last week, I have had this tremendous knot in the middle of my back. It was so bad last night I could barely move, and I generally have a high pain tolerance. I could barely get out of a chair. So I took a Soma (325 mg) and half of a 30 mg Opia. 7oH. I posted earlier about not being that impressed with Opia...but in conjunction with the Soma it worked great at alleviating the pain in my back. It was also a pretty darn good high.

And hour later I took another half Soma and another half of the Opia, and man I was feeling no pain whatsoever. It worked great.

But how often can I get away with this? Back is still killing me and I am heading off to the gym and will be in pain again tonight. How many nights can I take a Soma and an opiod? I have other opioids, fent, Oxy, and tramadol. I am pretty much classifying Opia in with the stronger opioids since it will cause addiction as well.

Going to try and get my wife to drive her elbow into the knot, which is like pulling teeth (she will get tired in 2 minuets). But I am going to probably end up using something similar to last night.


How many nights I a row can I get any with this? Thanks.

 

[chippermonk]

First, my title is not 100% accurate. I do have chronic pain in my feet (Plantar fasciitis) but during the day (sitting most of the time) I just deal with it. For example I did a painful calf workout yesterday and then the treadmill. It hurts pretty badly but I am able to handle it. Then when I get home at night I take 4.5 grams of Kratom and soak my feet in hot water, and that gets me through, no problem.

But starting last week, I have had this tremendous knot in the middle of my back. It was so bad last night I could barely move, and I generally have a high pain tolerance. I could barely get out of a chair. So I took a Soma (325 mg) and half of a 30 mg Opia. 7oH. I posted earlier about not being that impressed with Opia...but in conjunction with the Soma it worked great at alleviating the pain in my back. It was also a pretty darn good high.

And hour later I took another half Soma and another half of the Opia, and man I was feeling no pain whatsoever. It worked great.

But how often can I get away with this? Back is still killing me and I am heading off to the gym and will be in pain again tonight. How many nights can I take a Soma and an opiod? I have other opioids, fent, Oxy, and tramadol. I am pretty much classifying Opia in with the stronger opioids since it will cause addiction as well.

Going to try and get my wife to drive her elbow into the knot, which is like pulling teeth (she will get tired in 2 minuets). But I am going to probably end up using something similar to last night.


How many nights I a row can I get any with this? Thanks.

Man, I think I'd start off by not going to the gym if your back is hurting! I also personally find that taking a potent painkillers for pain and then exercising is a recipe for fucking up my injury worse. The painkiller makes me think I'm ok when I'm not so I get exuberant and do too much. A big mistake that I've made several times now
But I know that's not what you're asking. I dunno, but it seems like like taking more of the 7-oh is just leading towards what you were worried about as far as a 7-oh problem. But nevertheless, take a break from exercise and maybe you won't need your Soma and opi combo, problem solved.
Good luck
PS I had plantar fasciitis for a year, no fun. I relied on calf stretches, calf lifts, and staying off my feet to get over it. For exercise, I switched to only biking. But boy did that suck! I have some of it going on right now and I'm praying I get rid of it

 

[cnnka]

I have painful knots in my back due to scoliosis and gym I know exactly what you mean. And also my wife gets tired after 2 minutes lol.
I don’t think you need an opioid for the back pain (I don’t actually know how severe it is but I speak from personal so experience.
Muscle relaxers work a lot if better for that
Baclofen would be the most potent , I actually take Orphenadrine + Paracetamol for this kind of situation and also a benzo would greatly help especially bromazepam but anything would work.

 

[Psynaught]

Man, I think I'd start off by not going to the gym if your back is hurting! I also personally find that taking a potent painkillers for pain and then exercising is a recipe for fucking up my injury worse. The painkiller makes me think I'm ok when I'm not so I get exuberant and do too much. A big mistake that I've made several times now!
But I know that's not what you're asking. I dunno, but it seems like like taking more of the 7-oh is just leading towards what you were worried about as far as a 7-oh problem. But nevertheless, take a break from exercise and maybe you won't need your Soma and opi combo, problem solved.
Good luck!
PS I had plantar fasciitis for a year, no fun. I relied on calf stretches, calf lifts, and staying off my feet to get over it. For exercise, I switched to only biking. But boy did that suck! I have some of it going on right now and I'm praying I get rid of it

Doctors have told me a million times not to work out, LOL. I was in a bike accident (just trained upper body) then had Covid/long Covid. I have fought hard to get back into training, so. not quitting.

I know I am a knucklehead.

 

[Psynaught]

I have painful knots in my back due to scoliosis and gym I know exactly what you mean. And also my wife gets tired after 2 minutes lol.
I don’t think you need an opioid for the back pain (I don’t actually know how severe it is but I speak from personal so experience.
Muscle relaxers work a lot if better for that
Baclofen would be the most potent , I actually take Orphenadrine + Paracetamol for this kind of situation and also a benzo would greatly help especially bromazepam but anything would work.

Will see how it goes tonight. Just dealing with it now, about to train chest/shoulders/tris.

 

[chippermonk]

Doctors have told me a million times not to work out, LOL. I was in a bike accident (just trained upper body) then had Covid/long Covid. I have fought hard to get back into training, so. not quitting.

I know I am a knucklehead.

Well, perhaps you are
But, hey, dude, think how bad you will feel if you hurt yourself worse and can't exercise at all. Believe me, I can relate. Not about lifting, but when I can't hike and backpack I am depressed. At least don't take strong painkillers that make it impossible to judge when you are overdoing it

 

[chippermonk]

I have painful knots in my back due to scoliosis and gym I know exactly what you mean. And also my wife gets tired after 2 minutes lol.
I don’t think you need an opioid for the back pain (I don’t actually know how severe it is but I speak from personal so experience.
Muscle relaxers work a lot if better for that
Baclofen would be the most potent , I actually take Orphenadrine + Paracetamol for this kind of situation and also a benzo would greatly help especially bromazepam but anything would work.

I have been prescribed both baclofen and Flexeril, and have a lot of them sitting around but never could figure out just how they were suppose to help. Never killed pain I thought. Any tips on how to benefit?

 

[cnnka]

I have been prescribed both baclofen and Flexeril, and have a lot of them sitting around but never could figure out just how they were suppose to help. Never killed pain I thought. Any tips on how to benefit?

Yeah, muscle relaxers don’t really block the pain directly like opioids would. What they do is help the muscle relax when it’s in spasm or super tight, like with those knots in the back. It’s almost like the effect of a good massage once the muscle loosens up, you can move more freely and the pain eases because the tension is gone. That’s why baclofen or even Orphenadrine can be more effective in this kind of situation than opioids.
Benzos can work synergistically with muscle relaxers because they calm down the nervous system, so the muscles release tension even more basically doubling the effect.

 

[chippermonk]

Yeah, muscle relaxers don’t really block the pain directly like opioids would. What they do is help the muscle relax when it’s in spasm or super tight, like with those knots in the back. It’s almost like the effect of a good massage once the muscle loosens up, you can move more freely and the pain eases because the tension is gone. That’s why baclofen or even Orphenadrine can be more effective in this kind of situation than opioids.
Benzos can work synergistically with muscle relaxers because they calm down the nervous system, so the muscles release tension even more basically doubling the effect.

Interesting. Bet that would help with my jammed neck

 

[Psynaught]

Well, perhaps you are
But, hey, dude, think how bad you will feel if you hurt yourself worse and can't exercise at all. Believe me, I can relate. Not about lifting, but when I can't hike and backpack I am depressed. At least don't take strong painkillers that make it impossible to judge when you are overdoing it

I didn't touch anything all day and just got back from the gym. It was bothering me early in my work out but disappeared less than half way in....might be endorphins. I was training chest, shoulders and tris, so opposite body parts. It's 9:30 at night and right now I am going to take nothing and see how it goes.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Do you take any statins or other meds?

You've got a few options for preventing tolerances and potentiating meds.

• Theanine
  - stops stress response, anti-anxiety, anti-insomnia, repairs dopaminergic system (GDNF)
• Agmatine
  - fast-acting antidepressant, anti-stress, anti-adrenaline, endogenous opioid release, boosts dopamine, prevents tolerance, potentiates other drugs, NMDA antagonist
• Magnolol & Honokiol
  - potent anti-anxiety, antidepressant, anti-stress, potentiates opioids, anti-anxiety, anti-insomnia
• Rhodiola rosea (adaptogen, all-around support, boosts dopamine, anti-stress)
• Thymoquinone (pro-opioid effects, prevents opioid tolerance/withdrawals)
• Curcumin (prevents opioid tolerance, dependence, and withdrawal, potentiates opioids)
• Eugenol (direct opioid effects, prevents tolerance)
• Linalool (direct opioid effects, reduces opioid tolerance & dependence, anti-anxeity)
• Creatine (anti-depressant, reduces opioid withdrawals)

Opioids that work directly and indirectly:

• Caryophyllene (antidepressant, potentiates opioids, prevent opioid tolerance)
• Cannabigerol (endogenous opioids, enhance opioid receptors, prevent opioid tolerance, antidepressant, anti-stress)
• Myrrh (delta-opioid agonist: curzerene, furanoeudesma-1,3-diene)
• Menthol (direct opioid, enhance opioid receptors, prevent opioid tolerance, boosts GABA)
• Vanillin (endogenous opioids, antidepressant)
• Myrcene (enhance opioid receptors, prevent opioid tolerance, potentiates opioids, sedative)
• alpha-pinene (direct opioid effects @ mu-opioid receptor, anti-stress)

I've mentioned these things in other threads with relevant papers on their biological effects.

The other side to this appoach is restoring the body's natural ability to self-regulate.
This is achieved by restoring proper thyroid function and mitochondria (see this post on what they are and why they're worth repairing)

• Vitamin B1 (via B-complex)
• Niacinamide (50-100mg, with meals)
• Low dose aspirin (81-100mg max per day, why aspirin?)
• L-Phenylalanine (300-500mg, daily)
• Creatine (1g daily)
• CoQ10
• Ribose
• Inosine
• Coffee (+ honey + theanine) - why honey? this post explains how to use it sustainably to avoid negative-reactions (shakes, jitters, anxiety)
  

  The caffeine in coffee is powerful and can act like thyroid to increase your metabolic rate and the oxidation of sugar, making it a health-protective food.
  Symptoms to expect when you do coffee right are calmness, focus, motivation, warmth, and stable energy.

 

[Psynaught]

Do you take any statins or other meds?

You've got a few options for preventing tolerances and potentiating meds.

• Theanine
  - stops stress response, anti-anxiety, anti-insomnia, repairs dopaminergic system (GDNF)
• Agmatine
  - fast-acting antidepressant, anti-stress, anti-adrenaline, endogenous opioid release, boosts dopamine, prevents tolerance, potentiates other drugs, NMDA antagonist
• Magnolol & Honokiol
  - potent anti-anxiety, antidepressant, anti-stress, potentiates opioids, anti-anxiety, anti-insomnia
• Rhodiola rosea (adaptogen, all-around support, boosts dopamine, anti-stress)
• Thymoquinone (pro-opioid effects, prevents opioid tolerance/withdrawals)
• Curcumin (prevents opioid tolerance, dependence, and withdrawal, potentiates opioids)
• Eugenol (direct opioid effects, prevents tolerance)
• Linalool (direct opioid effects, reduces opioid tolerance & dependence, anti-anxeity)
• Creatine (anti-depressant, reduces opioid withdrawals)

Opioids that work directly and indirectly:

• Caryophyllene (antidepressant, potentiates opioids, prevent opioid tolerance)
• Cannabigerol (endogenous opioids, enhance opioid receptors, prevent opioid tolerance, antidepressant, anti-stress)
• Myrrh (delta-opioid agonist: curzerene, furanoeudesma-1,3-diene)
• Menthol (direct opioid, enhance opioid receptors, prevent opioid tolerance, boosts GABA)
• Vanillin (endogenous opioids, antidepressant)
• Myrcene (enhance opioid receptors, prevent opioid tolerance, potentiates opioids, sedative)
• alpha-pinene (direct opioid effects @ mu-opioid receptor, anti-stress)

I've mentioned these things in other threads with relevant papers on their biological effects.

The other side to this appoach is restoring the body's natural ability to self-regulate.
This is achieved by restoring proper thyroid function and mitochondria (see this post on what they are and why they're worth repairing)

• Vitamin B1 (via B-complex)
• Niacinamide (50-100mg, with meals)
• Low dose aspirin (81-100mg max per day, why aspirin?)
• L-Phenylalanine (300-500mg, daily)
• Creatine (1g daily)
• CoQ10
• Ribose
• Inosine
• Coffee (+ honey + theanine) - why honey? this post explains how to use it sustainably to avoid negative-reactions (shakes, jitters, anxiety)

Wow, will give this a closer read later. Last night was great, didn't take anything. Training back tonight, we will see, LOL.

 

[peter5113]

First, my title is not 100% accurate. I do have chronic pain in my feet (Plantar fasciitis) but during the day (sitting most of the time) I just deal with it. For example I did a painful calf workout yesterday and then the treadmill. It hurts pretty badly but I am able to handle it. Then when I get home at night I take 4.5 grams of Kratom and soak my feet in hot water, and that gets me through, no problem.

But starting last week, I have had this tremendous knot in the middle of my back. It was so bad last night I could barely move, and I generally have a high pain tolerance. I could barely get out of a chair. So I took a Soma (325 mg) and half of a 30 mg Opia. 7oH. I posted earlier about not being that impressed with Opia...but in conjunction with the Soma it worked great at alleviating the pain in my back. It was also a pretty darn good high.

And hour later I took another half Soma and another half of the Opia, and man I was feeling no pain whatsoever. It worked great.

But how often can I get away with this? Back is still killing me and I am heading off to the gym and will be in pain again tonight. How many nights can I take a Soma and an opiod? I have other opioids, fent, Oxy, and tramadol. I am pretty much classifying Opia in with the stronger opioids since it will cause addiction as well.

Going to try and get my wife to drive her elbow into the knot, which is like pulling teeth (she will get tired in 2 minuets). But I am going to probably end up using something similar to last night.


How many nights I a row can I get any with this? Thanks.

I’d be very careful doing this nightly. Mixing Soma with any opioid — even Opia — can quickly become unsafe, build tolerance fast, and raise overdose risk. It’s better to treat this as a one-off rescue, not a routine. If the back knot is this bad for several days, you should get it checked, start real treatment (physio, stretching, massage, heat/ice), and stop relying on combos that can hit your system hard.


Also try some natural support like turmeric for sciatica-type inflammation — it won’t replace meds, but it can help calm nerve-related pain.

 

[Psynaught]

I’d be very careful doing this nightly. Mixing Soma with any opioid — even Opia — can quickly become unsafe, build tolerance fast, and raise overdose risk. It’s better to treat this as a one-off rescue, not a routine. If the back knot is this bad for several days, you should get it checked, start real treatment (physio, stretching, massage, heat/ice), and stop relying on combos that can hit your system hard.


Also try some natural support like turmeric for sciatica-type inflammation — it won’t replace meds, but it can help calm nerve-related pain.

The knot went away on its own. I have not touched a SOMA since I can't remember when.

 

[bvc]

but when I can't hike and backpack I am depressed.

Do you ever experience SAD (seasonal affective disorder)?

 

[bvc]

The knot went away on its own. I have not touched a SOMA since I can't remember when.

My brother takes SOMA for some things. He has restless legs syndrome, but he also takes it recreationally. I worry sometimes about him because it seems like a pretty serious habit.

 

[asmodeusthewrathful1]

First, my title is not 100% accurate. I do have chronic pain in my feet (Plantar fasciitis) but during the day (sitting most of the time) I just deal with it. For example I did a painful calf workout yesterday and then the treadmill. It hurts pretty badly but I am able to handle it. Then when I get home at night I take 4.5 grams of Kratom and soak my feet in hot water, and that gets me through, no problem.

But starting last week, I have had this tremendous knot in the middle of my back. It was so bad last night I could barely move, and I generally have a high pain tolerance. I could barely get out of a chair. So I took a Soma (325 mg) and half of a 30 mg Opia. 7oH. I posted earlier about not being that impressed with Opia...but in conjunction with the Soma it worked great at alleviating the pain in my back. It was also a pretty darn good high.

And hour later I took another half Soma and another half of the Opia, and man I was feeling no pain whatsoever. It worked great.

But how often can I get away with this? Back is still killing me and I am heading off to the gym and will be in pain again tonight. How many nights can I take a Soma and an opiod? I have other opioids, fent, Oxy, and tramadol. I am pretty much classifying Opia in with the stronger opioids since it will cause addiction as well.

Going to try and get my wife to drive her elbow into the knot, which is like pulling teeth (she will get tired in 2 minuets). But I am going to probably end up using something similar to last night.


How many nights I a row can I get any with this? Thanks.

Non drug related suggestion for your back issue and the wife that may work but something that definitely works for me. My back is totally f’ed from being in 2 serous car wrecks and I have the knot that won’t go away that tries to hide right under my right shoulder blade up against my spine and with a rotator cuff injury on the same side same it puts my neck and my right hip totally out of place, so I feel for you that’s some real pain. Have your lady use one foot and put her heel using the weight of her body into the knot on your back and that way she could still be looking at her phone or whatever else and not get bored as much doing it for you. As for Somas and whatever else I don’t have any helpful advice for pills so good luck, hoping you get the answers you need from your thread.

 

[Them Witches]

In my experience there are levels to chronic pain that require different treatments and a doctor's diagnosis to verify chronic pain's validity. I am not watering down anyone's pain by any means.
Self-Diagnosis of chronic pain these days is getting lumped into one basket and that is dangerous to those that have been in treatment after a doctor's diagnosis. At some point, the law will not differentiate the levels of chronic pain and assume we are all the same in pain. Again, I am not judging anyone that says they are in pain because their pain is their pain.

Chronic pain syndrome is different than chronic pain by a mile. The CPS patient has exhausted all treatments (shots, PT, NSAIDS, surgeries, fusions, procedures, low dose opioids, muscle relaxers) and they are left with pain so long that it has created depression, anxiety, disturbed sleep, cannot work, quality of life down the drain, hopelessness, and a prognosis "poor" determination from a doctor.

I suggest anyone that feels they are in chronic pain to see a doctor, specialist, and exhaust all medical treatments & procedures, and lower key medications. Get on record the patient has participated in medication "step therapy." At least they will build a stack of medical records that justify their case when the DEA comes knocking to remove them from medications that work from them.

I also suggest doing some volunteer work for cancer patients, MS patients, degenerative bone disease patients, sickle cell patients, etc.. Go see what "severe chronic pain syndrome" looks like. Then be grateful that it is not you. This may give you some drive to do everything you can to better your pain and push on longer enjoying your somewhat normal life. Once a patient hits a prognosis poor life all bets are off and shit gets real, real fucking fast.

I am not saying minimize your pain by any means. Just come to realize that living with moderate to severe chronic pain/chronic pain syndrome destroys the mind, self-esteem, quality of life, hope for a cure, hope to feel normal, watch everyone around you disappear because it dampens their vibes seeing someone's life ripped away from them. "It is too sad to be around."

 

[Keif' Richards]

First of all @Allylbenzene that post was absolutely fascinating for me. I have to admit, a lot of this information I was unaware of, especially the terpenes. Thanks so much for that gem. Now I can maybe ask for some more specific stuff when I´m able to go back to the dispensary. I hope to see more of this cool shit in the future.

OP, Opioids are best used for short periods of time for severe pain. Chronic pain treatment using Opioids is extremely complex. It requires complete discipline from the prescribed and a solid doctor who will make the best choices for you, not what makes his job easier. Treating one´s self chronically with Opioids for pain is generally not something I would ever advise. That´s the thing though, you´re in pain. At some point, people get the ¨fuck my life anyway¨ attitude. This attitude, probably somewhat justified leads people to make bad decisions in the moment, not fully considering what the cost of pay back will be later on.

How about an analogy?

You know Polynesians, they say, left Madagascar in ancient times using only outrigger canoes and their natural-know how of navigation. They would use the stars. the wind, they´d look for certain animals... everything. What I always found fascinating though: these guys would READ SWELLS. They would literally read swells from sometimes a hundred miles away, these tiny, barely perceptible changes of the rise and fall of the waves against their canoes could tell the experienced navigator where an Island might be.

We are pretty much incapable of these kinds of observations as modern humans.

I feel that, in the same way, especially when addiction takes hold, it becomes impossible for us to look at things in such a ¨big picture¨ way. We rationalize things as being just once, as if one is not a number of any significance. You can do anything one time as long as it´s just this one time.

With Opioids, especially when you´re in pain, it is notoriously difficult to have a bottle of pain relief sitting on your counter and choose to endure the pain like a good soldier. It´s easy for usage to get out of hand if you do not have a clearly constructed plan and ideally, someone that you can trust to help you stay on track.

My point is, you need to look at every usage, every pill as if it is significant. Make rules and do not break your own rules.

I´m pretty sure I lost the point of what I was originally trying to say, but hopefully this means something to you guys.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I have to admit, a lot of this information I was unaware of, especially the terpenes. Thanks so much for that gem. Now I can maybe ask for some more specific stuff when I´m able to go back to the dispensary. I hope to see more of this cool shit in the future.

Aye there's a lot of underrated OTC stuff out there. I covered terpenes in more detail in this post & more practical info here.

You know terpenes are also openly sold as stream-distilled essential oils which are very affordable. The terpenes in lemon or pine oil will give a sativa-type energising uplifting effect whereas those in lavender, myrrh or sandalwood oil will give a more indica-type mellow chillout effect. Basically the terpenes offer a full pharmacological toolkit...dopamine, serotonin psychedelic, opioid, GABA, NMDA, even CB1...it's all there.