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Christianity and Mysticism

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isStellablue

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Have so struggled with this issue over many years, you know lots of Christians believe mysticism to be "sorcery".

We in the West, are carrying the responsibility, albeit very very badly, of carrying God's name. In the East, folks are looking at self realization. Just exactly where is that place right between wakefulness and dreaming.

Our problem is our hypocrisy and narrow mindedness, while their mistake seems to be, that they feel they can find their way home through their own efforts. Even if you're well aware that you are lost in a dream, you are still lost. I feel Buddhists who view reality as just an eternal dream are missing the point of the love, power, and personal authority of God.

Both "sides" are wrong and both "sides" are right.

Best Wishes
 
Christianity and mysticism have a long history together, and let no one tell you otherwise.

Protestant (especially 'Evangelical') Christians are traditionally wary of mysticism, because they take it on faith that everything required to live life the right way can be found by reading and commenting on the bible. They're very oriented toward The Word -- personal experience of the divine (i.e. mysticism) is unnecessary, they argue, to someone who has true faith that the bible is God's word.

But if you look at Roman Catholicism and the Eastern Rite churches, you'll see a long tradition of putting mystics on a pedestal (sainthood). This is the same way that Mahayana Buddhists idolize people (boddhisatvas) who've reached enlightenment but stuck with the secular world in order to help others and share their message of hope about what lies beyond this ephemeral world.

Look a little deeper into history, and you'll see that one of the earliest interpretations and practices of Jesus' message was that it's up to each of us to commune with the divine ourselves in our own way, which is pretty much the definition of mysticism. Unfortunately, this interpretation (which I believe to be correct), has always been threatening to organizations flying the Christian flag which have thrived on blind submission to group norms and authority -- the very thing Jesus spoke out against!
 
In eliminating the Pope and hierarchy as the arbiter of revelation and meaning those functions fell to the Bible. Hierarchy was not particularly friendly to mysticism but an inerrant Bible that covers all that will ever be relevant for all people in one place cover to cover is anti-mystical. All revelation and experiences checked against the large community consensus of what the Bible means.

The belief that the Bible has it all is a belief that your time is much better spent studying words, concordances, Greek dictionaries, and archaeological context than attempting to experience spirituality. When you do experience something it is to be tested against scripture. Mysticism can be framed according to books but authentic spirituality is not all that right brain verbal. Mysticism isn't about consensus reality through any book, not even a bible.

Orthodoxy by hierarchy or by scripture doesn't feel safe with mysticism at least in the West. Mystics aren't putting on a hand-me-done religion they are creating a new one.

Mystics often do defer to hierarchy or scripture out of the need to be safe, authentic devotion, or to try to make sense of what they experience but they are on a whole different kind of trip than those of us mostly going through the motions.

People would measure the rights of living beings to experience their souls against a long dead carcass of a book which ought only be respected as an attempt at the history of live spirituality from another era.
 
I think the biggest incompatibility between mysticism and christianity is that Christ is the only human that is supposed to be one with God. Any claims of oneness is equivalent to claiming you are Jesus.

Christianity does have a long tradition of mysticism though. St. Augustine was arguably a mystic, and by extension so was Plotinus. Meister Eckhart was a mystic and was accused of heresy for it. Father Thomas Keating continues the tradition in modern day Catholicism with little controversy I should add. I beliexve he's sidestepped the problem by framing it as finding union with your inner Christ, a universal sub-persona.


I feel Buddhists who view reality as just an eternal dream are missing the point of the love, power, and personal authority of God.
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I think the Buddhist equivalent of Jesus would be the Bodhisattva. THe Boddhisatva leads his/her life from a center of compassion. A radical connection to the world rather than solely from a radical disconnection/freedom.


I think you're right that Buddhism has an emphasis on 1st person embodiment, while Christianity has an emphasis on a 2nd person relationship, and philosophy has an emphasis of a 3rd person cognitive grasp.



Mystics often do defer to hierarchy or scripture out of the need to be safe, authentic devotion, or to try to make sense of what they experience but they are on a whole different kind of trip than those of us mostly going through the motions.
Click to expand...
I think eastern mysticism values lineage. It's a continuity in a world of impermenance. You can trace back the lineage of your teachers a thousand years. It connects you to an unbroken chain of perspective shared through many people in many times. Even a person that finds elements of the tradition outdated can find value in it.
 
If you are truly looking for an answer read, The Secret Teachings Of All Ages by Manly P. Hall, who was a Christian Mystic/ Free Mason....they have a nice 'readers edition' smaller than the original 18" X 12" coffee table version...... it may or may not be for you.... also you may want to look into origins of christianity... ex. Jesus was a Mystic (Kabballistic) Jew.... and take a buddhist perspective when you read things that Jesus said "I am the Light and the Life....I am God....et cetera........"
we all are, pieces of a whole, each of us equally important, equally Holy, .... IMHO.....
the G-d i believe in is omniscient,omnipotent,omnipresent.....which means everywhere,everything,all knowing,all powerful..... im a piece of everything aren't I? my mind too? my body? our soul? our mind? .... just a thought
 
Were all Lost

No one can be Bodhisattva in this life. We all need a hand. Someone to lead us home. I think the term "oneness" gets lost in translation or in ones own head.
We're all one in that we each are part of a great whole. The Creation.

God's thought?

Gods dream?

God's energy?


Only One Person (?) truthfully claimed to be GOD
 
Only-are you sure we are dealing with a solitary and not a tribe or council?
One- is her nature even actually whole? is she clearly defined enough to be one?
Person (?)- person in what sense?
truthfully-what is truth?
claimed-what do claims matter?
 
Enki said:
In eliminating the Pope and hierarchy as the arbiter of revelation and meaning those functions fell to the Bible. Hierarchy was not particularly friendly to mysticism but an inerrant Bible that covers all that will ever be relevant for all people in one place cover to cover is anti-mystical. All revelation and experiences checked against the large community consensus of what the Bible means.

The belief that the Bible has it all is a belief that your time is much better spent studying words, concordances, Greek dictionaries, and archaeological context than attempting to experience spirituality. When you do experience something it is to be tested against scripture. Mysticism can be framed according to books but authentic spirituality is not all that right brain verbal. Mysticism isn't about consensus reality through any book, not even a bible.

Orthodoxy by hierarchy or by scripture doesn't feel safe with mysticism at least in the West. Mystics aren't putting on a hand-me-done religion they are creating a new one.

Mystics often do defer to hierarchy or scripture out of the need to be safe, authentic devotion, or to try to make sense of what they experience but they are on a whole different kind of trip than those of us mostly going through the motions.

People would measure the rights of living beings to experience their souls against a long dead carcass of a book which ought only be respected as an attempt at the history of live spirituality from another era.
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absolutely agreed - perfectly put Enki...

i have picked up the New Testament and Old myself, and i do love the NT, * from what ive read so far... heh
:-\
---
especially John, id have to say it is rather mystical.
):-D


gregarious87
Manny Hall was an aggressive brilliant writer on esoteric works and theosophy, he did observe Christ, and anything else he could read or write about. he was friends with a lot of Freemasons etc;-) but was given the 3rd degree for his person, and because he did deserve it.

but, from what i understand he didnt ' practice ' so much, but rather only observed and wrote 100's of books-volumes-pamphlets(what have you) and this is amazing to me... his lusty passion and love was writing about spirituality, learning about it to only do so - this shows outstanding character to me, what devotion he had.

a fascinating guy, he should get more acknowledgment i hardly ever see him mentioned -RIP- live hard in words


Life Love Light
 
hmm...
i really feel the need to add that --

i have zero doubt of the mystical side of what is seen and practiced as Christianity, lately, especially in the states has been lost mostly - the important elements which created earth; the wood for the cross; the man on it; the woman who bore him; and the immaculate conception seem strayed also.

for myself, i see the bible teaching how to rationalize and love the earth, as well as our thoughts and emotions to be able to let go of it all in peace. i can not see what is not mystical about understanding Jesus as a spirit; as a vessel created by all knowledge and wisdom; compounded through a need for the light of the universe is the same light that answered through a love for the earth and understanding of human nature as-well - the greatest charge into this simplicity is the most encompassing and expansive -
for it is all but only as us - and it feels all that for it is all that we feel - and it kills all for it is all that does live - and for us it can change all that we might think only needs new shape.

it seems hardly any of the bible asks for us to sit and pray, no, it asks for us to go out and make the most of, BE every day, participate in every day and admire the love and death of everyday like its your last; listen to and speak realize every word as if they are some of the most important heard or spoken - it all becomes easier to do so over-time.

this can be done by looking into ourselves to see more of whats out there is whats left to be done, it seems for us on earth. an easy way to invoke this right of our mystic-call i feel is simply by touching a thumb to one finger at a time, and simply imagining the light reflecting from water, the moon, the sun, our galaxy and other galaxies - then simply see it the same as the light of our eyes; through a tap of each finger this is obtainable and mystical at least.
 
isStellablue said:
Our problem is our hypocrisy and narrow mindedness, while their mistake seems to be, that they feel they can find their way home through their own efforts. Even if you're well aware that you are lost in a dream, you are still lost. I feel Buddhists who view reality as just an eternal dream are missing the point of the love, power, and personal authority of God.
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Of course you do-- you're a Christian.

And where is this Eternal Dream coming from?
 
^^
'tha big water-bed in the sky - which we all argue over when there is plenty of room - even while the fundamental essence to the basis of the arguments for our faith, is usually that there is one-love and one-light one-thing we strive for after all.
 
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