"Chipping" with H/Oxy while on Suboxone...

[Opiocorpus]

I did a search and didn't come across anything addressing this particular topic.

Here's my question... I'm currently on Suboxone, but I will be back home and thus, back around dope for good sometime within the next few weeks.

I know there are loads of people here that are on Suboxone maintenance. How many of you are able to use your drug of choice sporadically and then jump back to the bupe? Does it essentially make the habit easier to maintain?

I've been craving like mad recently and I just know that I'm going to end up using every now and then. I want to know if any of you have been successful in using the Suboxone to maintain your habit, while still being able to get high every now and then. And if so, what negative consequences have there been, etc...

Don't bother with the "Don't do it! It's not worth it" blah, blah, blah stuff... I know myself and I know this is inevitable, and I've accepted that. I just want to know if anybody else does this and how easy it is to maintain that way.

Edit: sixpartseven, I know I've specifically seen you talk about this before, so don't hold out, heh.

 

[Alkaloidpun]

u lack self control, thats a bad thing, changing is possible.


as for your question. its not worth it, but if you dso decide to wrong yourself, but me personall,y I have no idea using and quitting after a week or two of use, but judging by your profoundly weak self control, I cant speak for you, I would say that I doubt its possible.

 

[Opiocorpus]

u lack self control, thats a bad thing, changing is possible.


as for your question. its not worth it, but if you dso decide to wrong yourself, but me personall,y I have no idea using and quitting after a week or two of use, but judging by your profoundly weak self control, I cant speak for you, I would say that I doubt its possible.

Don't bother with the "Don't do it! It's not worth it" blah, blah, blah stuff... I know myself and I know this is inevitable, and I've accepted that. I just want to know if anybody else does this and how easy it is to maintain that way.

...Reading comprehension is your friend. I'm well aware that I lack self control; it's why I'm an addict in the first place. I'm asking for the opinions/experiences of people who are experienced with the exact topic I'm speaking of.

 

[Alkaloidpun]

oh, okay. still I'm just saying that its just sad t osee people do this to themselves. in the same way readng comprehension is my friend self cotnrol is your friend.

 

[memphis10]

generally just wait 36 hours, less if you want less effects. hop back on a half day after the last time u use dope. you should be fine.

next time is gonna be a lot easier

chippings not good

 

[Opiocorpus]

generally just wait 36 hours, less if you want less effects. hop back on a half day after the last time u use dope. you should be fine.

next time is gonna be a lot easier

chippings not good

What do you mean the next time is going to be a lot easier? I know chipping's not good, but as I stated before, I've pretty much accepted my fate. Just want to hear from other's experience with it. I know the logistics of actually doing it, such as waiting times and all that, I just meant sort of overall how did it work out...

 

[memphis10]

once you successfully use without consequences...it makes it easier to do a second time....and a third....its a shitty cycle and it gets a lot of people.

i dont do this because i enjoy being clean

 

[scottodoit]

The problem is tolerance, everytime you 'chip' your sub is going to hold you less and less, till the point where your back at square one. Not that I can talk. I try playing the same game, (except with methadone). I find you start to live for the days were you 'allow' yourself a hit. I should listen to my own advise, but I won't.

 

[eon_blue]

The problem is tolerance, everytime you 'chip' your sub is going to hold you less and less, till the point where your back at square one.

Not necessarily. I've been using occasionally while on Suboxone (+/- 10 days per month) and I've actually gotten to where I need less Suboone overall when I jump back onto it.

For instance, when I starting taking subs I was prescribed 6mg/day...now I'm down to 2mg/day (minus the first day or two following a dope binge)

I find you start to live for the days were you 'allow' yourself a hit.

...'aint that the truth.

 

[sixpartseven]

I did a search and didn't come across anything addressing this particular topic.

Here's my question... I'm currently on Suboxone, but I will be back home and thus, back around dope for good sometime within the next few weeks.

I know there are loads of people here that are on Suboxone maintenance. How many of you are able to use your drug of choice sporadically and then jump back to the bupe? Does it essentially make the habit easier to maintain?

I've been craving like mad recently and I just know that I'm going to end up using every now and then. I want to know if any of you have been successful in using the Suboxone to maintain your habit, while still being able to get high every now and then. And if so, what negative consequences have there been, etc...

Don't bother with the "Don't do it! It's not worth it" blah, blah, blah stuff... I know myself and I know this is inevitable, and I've accepted that. I just want to know if anybody else does this and how easy it is to maintain that way.

Edit: sixpartseven, I know I've specifically seen you talk about this before, so don't hold out, heh.

Yep, I definitely do it. Been doing it every weekend since July 2007 and havent slipped up once.

I still use heroin around 3 or 4 times a month, and never had any issues with it turning into abuse. The thing is, suboxone becomes sort of like a security blanket. You know that you have something to fall back on. It works great. The temptation to just keep going with dope is always there. Every Sunday, its hard to accept the fact that I cant just go pick up more dope, and that I have to wait till next weekend, but I get over it quickly. If youre going to do it, always keep in mind that you are walking a tight rope doing this. Its so so so so so easy to fall back into abuse. You have to be on your toes and always using your head to make sure that you dont slip up. Self control is important. If you know you dont have self control, you may want to think twice, but unlike the other poster above, I believe people can change and learn to use self control. I did. I had none what-so-ever before I got on suboxone, now I do. It takes patience and a lot of acceptance that you cant always have what you want anytime you want.

Whether or not you should actually do it at this point depends on how long youve been on suboxone. I was on suboxone for about a month before I touched dope again, and I suggest to wait at least a month for yourself too. If youve been on it for longer than that already, then yeah, as long as you are comfortable with your suboxone dose than you should be all set.

Another thing to consider is how frequently you plan on using dope. This is key. The more often you use it, the harder it will be to jump back to the suboxone when you need to. For me, its about every weekend. Or every friday and saturday, to be more specific, except for this past weekend. Its the first weekend I havent used dope in a long time. Anyways, if you keep it to once or twice a weekend, and dont go overboard, when sunday comes and its time to take your suboxone, youll be good to go.

The hard part is controling the urge to just say "fuck it" and keep using dope. Its really easy to do that and say "if things get bad, I always have suboxone to go back to." Thats a bad attitude to have, and it will more than likely get you in to trouble. If that does happen, you know very well that even though you could get back on suboxone, you wont. Its a hard transition, dope to suboxone, and who would want to have to make it again? Just be careful and dont let it come to that.

One key thing to remember is stop your suboxone 24 hours before your first dose of dope/oxy. You will regret it if you dont. Its a waste of cash. Also, wait 24 hours after your last dose of dope/oxy before jumping back on suboxone. But, who doesnt know that already?

How much suboxone do you take a day? What was your tolerence to dope/oxy before you got on suboxone? If your dose of suboxone is around 6mg or higher, chances are your tolerence to dope has gone up a little bit too. The thing with me, is Ive stuck with a stable dose of 2 - 4mg of suboxone ever since July of 2007 (I started suboxone in June 2007 at 12mg and in 2 weeks quickly dropped myself down to 2 or 4mg, depending on how I felt) Because of that, for some reason my tolerence to heroin is not that much smaller than it was before I got on suboxone. So I dont know how that is going to translate to you, but the best thing to do would be to start small, as usual, and work your way up to find out where your tolerence to heroin/oxy is at now.

The point of saying all that is, if you want to chip and binge, get your dose of suboxone down to the lowest possible dose you can where you are still comfortable. That way, your tolerence will stabelize or go down, and you wont have to spend a shit load of money on dope everytime you want to get high. You can buy less and get more out of it.

I feel like Im forgetting to say something. I dont know. So yeah, just limit your use. Aim for no more than 8 days a month (thats every friday and saturday.) The less often you use, the easier it will be to maintain. Take tolerence into consideration. Discontinue suboxone 24 hours before your first dose. Wait 24 hours before you jump back on suboxone.

And most importantly, dont let casual use turn into daily abuse.

Good luck. If you have any more questions, let me know.

The problem is tolerance, everytime you 'chip' your sub is going to hold you less and less, till the point where your back at square one. Not that I can talk. I try playing the same game, (except with methadone). I find you start to live for the days were you 'allow' yourself a hit. I should listen to my own advise, but I won't.

You dont always start living for those days. Its easy to let yourself, but you just have to realize that those days arent the important days. It all depends on the person. If it gets to the point where those days you use are all you think about, then maybe you should stop using for a while. And hats not true about suboxone not holding you as good after using dope. I take 2 - 4mg of suboxone everyday, and after a weekend of heroin use, it still holds me just as good as it did last time I took it.

 

[scottodoit]

Maybe in my situation I might be better off jumping onto sub by the sounds of it. I had got down from 75mg mmt to 10mg before starting to use again.
If I'm going to play maybe sub would be better? I find for a few days after using heroin, the done doesn't quite hold me as usual.

 

[Opiocorpus]

Wow, thanks a ton for that post SPS. That's pretty much exactly the type of all encompassing experience I was looking to hear about. I don't mind hearing about negative experiences too, though.

Also, I guess saying I have NO self control isn't exactly true. I just have no self control to stay off opiates, period. I've been on Suboxone for right at two months now, taken myself from 8 MGs a day to 6 MGs a day over the last week. Also, I haven't used once since induction, and there has been more than one opportunity to do so. My tolerance to dope before starting on Suboxone was about .4-.5 a gram of very good tar (well, as good as tar can be anyway), or one OC 80 in an IV session. I never let myself have more than two doses a day, even if I was sick, because I didn't want to be broke.

My preliminary plans for using are almost exactly what you described, weekends only. I've honestly been good in the past about rationing out dope and what not to make sure I was at least "well" the next morning, etc...

I'm going to be moving in with a close female friend of mine who is also starting a Suboxone regiment but wants to do the same. She's very disciplined/hard headed when it comes to drug use too, so we'll both be there to kind of ... well, slap the shit out of each other if either tries to break routine, heh.

Thanks again man. Keep 'em coming guys. Anybody have their life just go right back to shit while trying this routine?

 

[eon_blue]

Thanks again man. Keep 'em coming guys. Anybody have their life just go right back to shit while trying this routine?

My life doesn't go to shit per se, but I have found that Suboxone isn't the perfect answer for those of us who use it to maintain a 'small' habit, at least not for me. It was at first, but with every 3-4 day dope-break I go on these days, I always feel shittier than the previous time after jumping back onto the Suboxone.

Not talking about physically, that part I've gotten used to and even found a way to avoid completely (if you only use heroin for a couple days after stopping your sub routine, you can jump back on without having to worry about w/d and/or precipitate w/d, unlike if you jump back on subs after using dope for a week or more). I'm talking about the mental aspect...Suboxone doesn't seem to fill that void left by heroin when I stop using, at least not for the first 4-7 days. Don't count on it to be a recipe for a completely seamless transition from one drug to the other, because it doesn't stay that way for long in my experience.

 

[Opiocorpus]

My life doesn't go to shit per se, but I have found that Suboxone isn't the perfect answer for those of us who use it to maintain a 'small' habit, at least not for me. It was at first, but with every 3-4 day dope-break I go on these days, I always feel shittier than the previous time after jumping back onto the Suboxone.

Not talking about physically, that part I've gotten used to and even found a way to avoid completely (if you only use heroin for a couple days after stopping your sub routine, you can jump back on without having to worry about w/d and/or precipitate w/d, unlike if you jump back on subs after using dope for a week or more). I'm talking about the mental aspect...Suboxone doesn't seem to fill that void left by heroin when I stop using, at least not for the first 4-7 days. Don't count on it to be a recipe for a completely seamless transition from one drug to the other, because it doesn't stay that way for long in my experience.

I wouldn't expect that anyway. It obviously wasn't a seamless transition from dope to Suboxone the first time, or I wouldn't be inquiring about occasional dope use while on the bupe, heh. Suboxone does exactly what it's supposed to do; it keeps me well. It's not amazing for killing cravings, but that was expected when I signed up. I have no complaints about the Subs in general, as I said, it's doing about what I expected it to do, and my life is definitely more manageable than before.

 

[danalprazolam]

I wouldn't expect that anyway. It obviously wasn't a seamless transition from dope to Suboxone the first time, or I wouldn't be inquiring about occasional dope use while on the bupe, heh. Suboxone does exactly what it's supposed to do; it keeps me well. It's not amazing for killing cravings, but that was expected when I signed up. I have no complaints about the Subs in general, as I said, it's doing about what I expected it to do, and my life is definitely more manageable than before.

Now that I have klonopin with my suboxone it's a little easier. However I think my life was better before when I constantly had euphoria. I mean that is until the withdrawls got annoying..

 

[Opiocorpus]

Now that I have klonopin with my suboxone it's a little easier. However I think my life was better before when I constantly had euphoria. I mean that is until the withdrawls got annoying..

That's another thing, my bupe Dr. absolutely refuses to give any sort of benzo to any of his patients, even though I've been prescribed Xanax in the past and never, ever abused it. He has my medical records stating this and still "doesn't believe in giving an addict another addictive drug." Well... this addict is having fucking panic attacks and you're not doing anything about it, Doc. I honestly think my situation would be a tad easier if I had a Doc who wasn't so set in his ways, but what can ya do...

 

[chicpoena]

I honestly think my situation would be a tad easier if I had a Doc who wasn't so set in his ways, but what can ya do...

Maybe you can find another doctor? Ask around and when you find one who sounds good, get a referral from your primary care provider (GP). You have a choice when it comes to doctors. Case and point: my endocrinologist stuck a needle into my thyroid while I was not numb. I need twice the normal amount of anesthetic (and so does my dad and grandpa, it's genetic) and he said that's ridiculous and when ahead and plunged the needle in. I let out a scream that was heard throughout the clinic. Never went back to him and found another endocrinologist my insurance company was willing to pay for. As a patient, you are a consumer of medical services and can choose which doctors you see (if you have private insurance in the USA).

 

[Opiocorpus]

Maybe you can find another doctor? Ask around and when you find one who sounds good, get a referral from your primary care provider (GP). You have a choice when it comes to doctors. Case and point: my endocrinologist stuck a needle into my thyroid while I was not numb. I need twice the normal amount of anesthetic (and so does my dad and grandpa, it's genetic) and he said that's ridiculous and when ahead and plunged the needle in. I let out a scream that was heard throughout the clinic. Never went back to him and found another endocrinologist my insurance company was willing to pay for. As a patient, you are a consumer of medical services and can choose which doctors you see (if you have private insurance in the USA).

One step ahead of ya, heh. I've got to call a Doc back home in Norman, OK today at 4:00 and gauge whether or not I'm going to use him when I get back. Found him through NAABT website, so if it doesn't sound like I'm going to like him, I'll find another.

 

[rave23]

He has my medical records stating this and still "doesn't believe in giving an addict another addictive drug."

So judging by the past mistakes you made, he dennies you appropriate treatment even though you have been shown to use the perscribed drug in a responsible manner?

That is exactly what i would say to him. I wanna know what he would have to say to that. It's proven for benzos to help. God some quacks these days 8) ....

//oh, and ask about his deffinition of "Addictive drug", it seems like he's giving you Bupe already, so what the fuck addictive drug... He basically allows you to continue your opiate addiction by giving you Bupe, but doesn't want to give something to you that helps even more, cause he's affraid of addiction? I am laughing my fucking ass off... Find a shrink that knows what he's talking about...


/// btw: i am more affraid of having something in my Medical Record than in my Criminal Record. If i ever have something in my medical record, i will, sadly enough, never ever get appropriate treatment when i need it... Sad world these days, that you have to worry about that shit more than anything else. Jeez, i am affraid of seeing a doc these days, cause he might think i am an abuser or something...

 

[Opiocorpus]

So judging by the past mistakes you made, he dennies you appropriate treatment?

That is exactly what i would say to him. I wanna know what he would have to say to that. It's proven for benzos to help. God some quacks these days 8) ....

It doesn't matter anymore regardless. I just found out literally 5 minutes ago that I'm going home on Tuesday, after my next appt. with my current Doc .

Can't even put into words how fucking excited I am. The living situation I'm currently in has been hell, to say the least.

I have to call the guy who is going to be my Doctor back home in 45 minutes, and I'm going to straight up tell him over the phone that I need a benzo in conjunction with Suboxone to be stabilized. If he doesn't like it, I'll find another Dr. that will.