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Chemical messiahs different to mere "drugs"?

I

Ismene

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Joined
Jun 17, 2005
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Are there any psychedelic users who feel a little snooty about psychedelics (specifically the messiahs - acid and mushrooms) as compared to "other drugs"? Must admit after my recent tragic bout with cocaine and what was alleged to be methamphetamine I've now concluded the swirlys rule.

Furthur, does the psychedelic urge come from a different place to compulsive use of coke/speed/alcohol for you or do you simply class the whole lot as "droogz" and snort them up your arse regardless?
 
All drug use stems from an innate desire to alter consciousness. The fact a lot of psychedelic users get all messianic about their DOC is an unfortunate and contradictory kickback from a psychedelic experience that inherently relies on largely, but not wholly, ripping up normal waking consciousness, i.e ego consciousness.
 
IMO, hallucinogens are a 'gift' to mankind - especially the natural ones - and are in a totally different class from droogz of addiction. Although I like both, I find that 'never the twain shall meet'.
 
I find that people who overuse psychs often end up on a spectrum that ranges from smug to 'sectionable messiah complex'. Drugs make your conciousness behave in a predictable way, with varying degrees of harm. I think any belief that certain drugs unlock fundamental truths about the world is delusional. It's all just a bit of fun ;)

Edit - plus what SHM said.
 
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I could never understand people who take powerful hallucinogenics 'for a laff'. Sure, it can be fun, but if that's all you get out of it then I believe you're missing the point somewhat. Psychedelics can and do change the way you see the world forever. They unlock your subconscious mind and force you to face your fears - for better or worse...
 
But I think seeing things from a different perspective is fun. I was being slightly facetious, hence the ;), but I don't think, having played a cheap trick on my mind, I've now got a deeper understanding of the world than all the great philosophers who never dabbled in drugs.
 
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I don't get snooty about it but I do hold them in higher regard than all other drugs I take, they're special, really fuckin special, whether that be for fun or insight..

DMT, fuck I love that stuff. Psychedelic crack <3
 
Psychedelics are definitely capable of unlocking 'truths' imo (at the most materialistic level, that dna scientist who sussed out how it worked on an acid trip (NOT crick) - and i've brought back personal truths from trips many times); they can also unlock delusions in equal measure though. They can only manifest the mind they're in. Though saying that i think the most common 'truths' of psychedelics (we're all one, everything's connected, everything's love (man)) are truths; and if they're not, it's still worth believing they are (bear in mind this is the afterglow/hypomania from 1plsd talking :) (hopefully not at sectionable messiah level yet)

I've got nothing against non psychedelic drugs though - they're different tools for different jobs. But i learn the most from psychedelics.
 
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Vurtual said:
(hopefully not at sectionable messiah level yet)
.
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You're not even at the 'smug' level yet ;). I only said that because I knew a couple of people who did have to be sectioned, I suppose because they 'lost respect' for the psychedelics (though I would say they were just reckless).

Psyches definitely have an extra depth to them, it's just the superiority around it you sometimes get (not on this thread) that makes me bristle -superiority which, as SHM pointed out, is just a side effect of abuse.
 
I see what is wrong with the world. I see what is wrong with myself. I am aware of this. I am far from perfect. I am filled with hate and I am filled with love. I seek the ultimate truth in everything. I want to better myself and I want to better the world. I want to open people's eyes to the endless potential inside of them. Therefore I am also the messiah. We can all be messiahs, the more Jesus' in the world the better.
Or some shit like that. Anyways my Jesus costume is banging.

(what's the swirlys rule?)
 
Spudgun: I absolutely agree with the category and know a few who went that way (at least for a while). The old cliche about trips vs long term meditation/yoga has some truth in it - inexperienced people when shown that they're the centre of the universe can take it literally and think they're the only messiah (this happens with yoga too) - without realising everyone else is also the messiah at the centre of their own universe (the magician who makes the grass green). (edit: and what you said larch)
 
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Larch said:
I see what is wrong with the world. I see what is wrong with myself. I am aware of this. I am far from perfect. I am filled with hate and I am filled with love. I seek the ultimate truth in everything. I want to better myself and I want to better the world. I want to open people's eyes to the endless potential inside of them. Therefore I am also the messiah. We can all be messiahs, the more Jesus' in the world the better.
Or some shit like that. Anyways my Jesus costume is banging.

(what's the swirlys rule?)
Click to expand...

Swirlys rule; swirly visual psychedelics are superior to any and all drugs ;)
 
spudgun said:
-superiority which, as SHM pointed out, is just a side effect of abuse.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that what I am saying I would categorize as abuse, not in the classic sense of the word anyway. What I mean is that some people, the ones who tend to get all messianic about the psychedelic experience, exhibit an attachment to the ideas and experiences of psychedelia when that experience itself actually relies upon/teaches non-attachment, or the pulling away from ordinairy, waking (ego) consciousness.

Because the shift is apparently such a seismic one this gets reflected in the seismic attachment people get to those ideas and experiences.

However, within varying degrees, I don't think this is entirely limited to psychedelic users. Users of many other drugs, cocaine, heroin, alcohol, cannabis can also get fairly attached to the love of their drug. They can be just as crashing bores about their DOC as the messianic psychedelic user. But maybe they get off easier/receive less attention because their DOC is more widely used, a larger part of the every day narrative, more mainstream and therefore less threatening to the framework of peoples lives. Coz we all like to feel secure yo.
 
ScotchMist said:
Swirlys rule; swirly visual psychedelics are superior to any and all drugs ;)
Click to expand...

Ah gotcha, cheers. As has been said, different tools for different jobs.

Agree with StoneHappyMonday, heavy psychedelics use can definitely lead you along (or show you the path) to becoming a pretty 'far out' dude, which is totally loved by many folks but is definitely threatening to the security of others boundaries, causing them to become tetchy, or worse...

Concerning attachment, it is often recommended to twin psychedelic use with meditation - can't say I've tried this myself, much prefer to just get blasted an go for a hike - but can see where the benefits of such practices may arise.
 
I used to be a bit snooty about the old psychedelics, but have since become more open to all kinds of drugs. i still like psychedelics best, but i think that the majority of drugs can be at least somewhat useful.
ive seen some people overreacting to the insight psychs may give and it is as unpleasant sight as any coke induced mania.

moderation is best, as with all things.
 
I've never like the alleged link between psychedelics and meditation/eastern ways. I think psychedelics are superior in every way imaginable. You don't have to take any fuckers word for anything - you simply work in conjunction with the chemical messiah and together you get what you need. For me, they're the answer to life that I was always searching for and never found with buddhism etc. If you need to cry, crying on psychedelics is cathartic and healing whereas crying when you're sober is just fucking bleak. If you need a laugh you can laugh your sides sore, if you appreciate nature you can see it like a child again, you can hear music in a new way, remember loved ones. What else do you need?

"Make me one with everything" said the buddhist to the hot dog salesman.

"Where is my change"? "Change comes only from within" replied the hot dog salesman.
 
You are the only one mentioning Buddhism Ismene.

You have also entitled this thread with, and continue to use, Abrahamic religious terminology.

There's only one person in this thread help bent (geddit?) on religious freakery.
 
I thought quite a few people had mentioned meditation/yoga/attachment tho?

I wasn't using it in the abrahamic sense - more as a humourous reference to the molecule as your friend/liberator.

I'm certainly a religious devotee of LSD and mushrooms.
 
Ismene said:
I've never like the alleged link between psychedelics and meditation/eastern ways. I think psychedelics are superior in every way imaginable. You don't have to take any fuckers word for anything - you simply work in conjunction with the chemical messiah and together you get what you need. For me, they're the answer to life that I was always searching for and never found with buddhism etc. If you need to cry, crying on psychedelics is cathartic and healing whereas crying when you're sober is just fucking bleak. If you need a laugh you can laugh your sides sore, if you appreciate nature you can see it like a child again, you can hear music in a new way, remember loved ones. What else do you need?

"Make me one with everything" said the buddhist to the hot dog salesman.

"Where is my change"? "Change comes only from within" replied the hot dog salesman.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying. It could be the same destination they both take you, just different paths. The difference being meditation is like knocking on the door and being welcomed in, to a nice seat beside the fire. Whereas psychedelics are like kicking in the back door with a boom-box.

It could be that psychedelics are a quick jaunt in and out of this state of being, but it isn't as sustainable as meditation which is a continued, firm presence of this mindset. But as I've said earlier I can't totally commit to any beliefs due to not being experienced, just what have picked up over the course of time.

Ultimately though I just enjoy seeing 'swirlys', the abstract mindset and enhanced audio perception. Try me best to leave the 'woo' out of it.
 
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