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Charlottesville, Virginia

Fresco said:
Where have I attacked anyone?? :?
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Fresco said:
Are you off your meds today, Scro???
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The examples are piling up Fresco.

Also, by insinuating that Scrofula needs medication, and that he hasn't taken them today you are attempting to damage his credibility. This technique is used when someone wants to silence the voice of a certain party. Not really the kind of thing I would expect from a self proclaimed free speech champion.
 
Shimmer.Fade said:
Do you mind if I ask what race and religious denomination you are? Dutch/Canadian could be a lot of things, but I guess you mean 'white'?
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I dont know what difference it makes, but if you must know I'm blonde haired and blue eyed.

Whenever I travel to Panama (Tocumen) girls say I look like a Siberian Husky (no joke)................LOL
 
Fresco said:
He's insinuating I'm a Nazi apologist (which quite frankly, if You're Dutch, is completely laughable).

But, whatever =D
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Actually, I was responding to this statement:
Fresco said:
Where have I attacked anyone?? :?
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with this statement:
Fresco said:
Are you off your meds today, Scro???
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I'm really not sure how you get:
Fresco said:
He's insinuating I'm a Nazi apologist (which quite frankly, if You're Dutch, is completely laughable).
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You sure do misrepresent peoples' words an awful lot for someone who supposedly supports free speech.
 
@LM:
You sound like a Trump supporter, always defend him even when obvious links and info about bigotry are presented, and judging by the way you talk I can totally understand why people think you are a Nazi apologist. Especially when we read all of your denials on Trump's thread. No matter what everyone says it really seems to me you wouldn't change your opinion even if Trump himself admitted he's wrong. It's not only me. Read the thread impartiality (as if you could) and you'd have the same opinion. I wonder why..
 
Fresco said:
I dont know what difference it makes, but if you must know I'm blonde haired and blue eyed.

Whenever I travel to Panama (Tocumen) girls say I look like a Siberian Husky (no joke)................LOL
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I think your claimed race is important in that you are basically the last phenotype which white extremists would threaten. I'm assuming you are also not Jewish? Don't answer if you don't want to, but I feel it does have relevance.

You are a blonde haired, blue eyed white person of Dutch descent, and you have no fear of white extremism.

Have you cared to empathize with people who aren't white or christian, may be homosexual/transgender, or progressives in general?

Have you thought that the active and ongoing intimidation by white supremacist groups is an attempt to silence those that are different? Americans from all races, religions, and ethnicities in the USA are standing up to protect free speech for all people, including those who may be different. Free speech for those who are different is truly under attack by nazis, white supremacists, and many others on the right. What do you think tactics to delegitimize the free press are?

By denouncing the racists and bigots (I'm being too kind) who would like to intimidate those who are different into silence and subjugation most people in the USA are protecting free speech.

You can denounce something and still protect the right to free speech of those whose ideology is being denounced, but it seems you don't want to be troubled by that amount of complexity.
 
Shimmer.Fade said:
I think your claimed race is important in that you are basically the last phenotype which white extremists would threaten. I'm assuming you are also not Jewish? Don't answer if you don't want to, but I feel it does have relevance
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I am not, but I do feel weirdly protective of Jewish people after all the sh*t they went through in Holland with the Nazi's and stuff. They are some of the most intelligent people I've ever met, and I dont understand all the hate they get

Shimmer.Fade said:
Have you cared to empathize with people who aren't white or christian, may be homosexual/transgender, or progressives in general?
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I love shemales!!! LOL

Shimmer.Fade said:
You can denounce something and still protect the right to free speech of those whose ideology is being denounced'
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Okay :\
 
Fresco said:
The fact you can defend free speech, and at the the same time not agree with it??
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tl;dr - hate speech is not free speech.

this does get a little mentally challenging but it doesn't require doublethink...

fresco, imagine if you heard a statement from a ceo saying his company was going to go gangbusters in the first quarter - the fda just approved a new product and the sales were going to be rolling in. so you go out and buy $10k of their stock and it turns out the fda approval thing was just a lie and the company failed as a result and the $10k you thought was going to turn into $50k is now worth $0?

so you're upset and broke but you're still defending his right to say what he said because free speech right?

if not, then you believe in limits to free speech. from there, as with most things, it's just a discussion of where you choose to draw the line.

alasdair
 
Does anyone think that trump is not actually as racist as he acts...he just does it because most of the country is racits and he knows its a winning strategy.


I mean you can cite his racist lawsuits in the past, but to be honest, if everybody's past comments and actions were dug up even the most progressive people in society would have incidents against them which were classified as racist. Because, everyone is racist, by nature humans and animals are racists among their own species.

But I suspect trump might just be playing this up more than he actually is racist jsut because he knows its a winning strategy, which says more about everyone else than it does about him.
 
I think Trump just read what Bannon handed him, doesn't understand the problem. I don't think he's ever had a strategy or the self-awareness to evaluate his own views.
 
No. It is not.

Statement doesn't even make sense.

ETA: if you're talking about a limited court case from June, the implications aren't changed, you can express your hatred toward all kinds of things; you are still not free to incite violence, which is what the "hate speech" you're talking about does.

And honestly, you would hope the police would arrest you for that before they let the crowd decide, in large parts of this country.

You could not before or now, write a law that makes calling me "cracker" a crime. But you still can't incite a riot, even if you were "speaking" and had the Super Power Permit of Moral Unreproachment.
 
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Scrofula said:
No. It is not.

Statement doesn't even make sense.

ETA: if you're talking about a limited court case from June, the implications aren't changed, you can express your hatred toward all kinds of things; you are still not free to incite violence, which is what the "hate speech" you're talking about does
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Seriously, but you're clueless when it comes to US law. You are free to hate as much as you want on anyone in the US, it only becomes illegal when you act on your hate.

Here, read this: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/43249...-attacks-police-officer-in-front-of-tourists/

And this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...e-there-no-law-against-hate-speech/579321001/
 
Fresco said:
According to US law hate speech is protected by free speech (First Amendment)
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strictly speaking, of course you are correct. i should have been clearer. it gets trickier when you consider the "unless that speech is 'directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.'"

alasdair
 
You're going to link a British tabloid?

I admire your trolling, cause you got me back to make this again about free speech when it's about nazis murdering Americans.

Why don't I relink what I already said. Do I need to be more clear about what the government is prohibited from doing and what they're not?

THey can't pass a law that prohibits certain speech. THey can pass blanket laws, they can restrict it generally, and "the freedom of speech" doesn't include incitement. Do I need case law citations?

Most cities require you ask before having a rally. They have to treat all askers the same. THAT right there is "the freedom of speech" not being infringed. If you then yell a bunch of racial slurs and say stupid shit that makes the crowd get angry and start breaking things, YOU CAN BE ARRESTED.

IF you were giving an interview about how the Dutch are all below average in their grasp of foreign civics, and I run up and punch you, I am NOT stifling or infringing your freedom of speech. It's simple assault. ONLY GOVERNMENTS can infringe your freedom of speech. Fascist ones.

"Hate speech" is a euphimism. Whatever you include in that, it is NOT protected. YOU are protected from laws prohibiting the specifics of what you say. (If you were American).

In other words, no, you have no legal right to yell slurs at anyone.

And you can get arrested for it if you do.
 
alasdairm said:
strictly speaking, of course you are correct. i should have been clearer. it gets trickier when you consider the "unless that speech is 'directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.'"

alasdair
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Whats interesting is in Canada you can be arrested and imprisoned for hate-speech.
This guy got 1 year in jail: http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...spurs-emergency-alarm-on-toronto-subway-train

He had priors though
 
Indeed.
It can also happen in a lot of countries in Europe where you have freedom of speech, but not hate speech, e.g., Sweden, Norway, etc. You can't talk pejoratively about Immigrants.

In South American, in countries like, Chile or Brazil racism or the manifestation of values against other races are considered crime.
 
Fresco said:
Whats interesting is in Canada you can be arrested and imprisoned for hate-speech.
This guy got 1 year in jail: http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...spurs-emergency-alarm-on-toronto-subway-train
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did you read the article?

he was convicted of: breach of the peace (by interfering with Toronto Transit Commission service); causing a disturbance (by using insulting language) and breaching his probation on the earlier hate-mongering conviction.

he was not "arrested and imprisoned for hate-speech" and when you have to mischaracterize a case - which is there in black and white - to make your point, then you really have no point.

somerandomdude also made an erroneous claim with regard to canada. see: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...as-Ramblas?p=14119079&viewfull=1#post14119079

alasdair
 
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