Stimulants Change my mind - Epinephrine

[Rads0y]

I’ve done a small amount of reading up on people’s experiences with epinephrine. 9/10 times it is a negative report.

Since I’ve started probation a couple of years ago I’ve spent a lot of time finding alternative chemicals to use that will not show up on both a rapid test nor a lab test.
It’s also worth noting that I have been slowly moving away from the hardcore drug use that characterized my teens & 20’s.

Given that info, I’m also simply interested in “lighter” chemicals, although epinephrine hardly seems “light”, but imo it’s far from IV coke/H/fent/meth/etc.
Chemicals like Cyclazodone, Baclofen, soma, G, maybe some light K, sniffing caffeine powder, DMT, phenibut.
I still have yet to try the isolated/extracted 7-oh, Selank, Semax, and plennnty of other chems I’ve tried and have yet to try.

Most recently I’ve ordered some smelling salts, and a variety of different kinds of poppers. I’d like to conjure up some ether as well.

While I’ve been waiting for my smelling salts, I decided to get a primatene inhaler to kick off the day when I have to get up super early, which I’m terrible at, hence the chems.
I use it very lightly because it can easily be too much. It pretty much does the job, wakes me up quickly, and has some atypical euphoria to it. I’ll maybe use it another 2-3 times through the day currently.

It definitely feels like something that should not be used long term though.
I feel like I should mention that I also take Desvenlafaxine daily which is an SNRI, which interestingly enough I also get some mild atypical euphoria from & maybe they’re interacting together.

I’m kind of assuming the smelling salts will be exactly the quick jolt I’m looking for. It doesn’t be euphoric, but If I could mix one of my poppers with the salts to provide some euphoria with the energy boost - well then that would be excellent.

But if all this fails, I’ll probably continue with the epinephrine. I just found out they make tablets of it as well. I’ll do my best to be careful, I’m not interested in trying to IV or boof it.

Any thoughts? Anyone want to convince me otherwise or throw in your two cents regarding the atypical euphoria? “Atypical” is the key word, it’s no where near the type of euphoria from our standard street drugs.

EDIT: any chance of converting epinephrine to norepinephrine with ease? If that’s a thing worth doing

 

[Docta]

I feel like I should mention that I also take Desvenlafaxine daily

Yeah Desevenlafaxine is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor so likely to supercharge the effects of Adrenaline (epinephrine).
Obviously there's gonna be elevated heart rate and blood pressure.
Possible long-term cardio vascular issues down the line, so you gotta ask yourself: Is the juice worth the squeeze?

any chance of converting epinephrine to norepinephrine with ease?

That would be going in the wrong direction. So not easy.
While going from norepinephrine to epinephrine in one or two steps wouldn't be an issue, going the other way would be a bit tricky.
Chemically you wanting to go from secondary amine to primary amine, this would require some experience and specialized equipment to carryout.

 

[Rads0y]

Yeah Desevenlafaxine is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor so likely to supercharge the effects of Adrenaline (epinephrine).
Obviously there's gonna be elevated heart rate and blood pressure.
Possible long-term cardio vascular issues down the line, so you gotta ask yourself: Is the juice worth the squeeze?



That would be going in the wrong direction. So not easy.
While going from norepinephrine to epinephrine in one or two steps wouldn't be an issue, going the other way would be a bit tricky.
Chemically you wanting to go from secondary amine to primary amine, this would require some experience and specialized equipment to carryout.

Thanks for the reply.

I basically have 0 chemistry knowledge, I just kind of assumed how the body breaks down say; oxycodone to noroxycodone by demethylation, that the “nor” always denotes like a breakdown of a parent chemical.
I know words and terms, some basic concepts, and have done some elementary extraction, conversions, etc.

Yeah I definitely don’t plan on using it long term. It’s just nice when I discover a chemical that has some mild or subtle effects that I can use on occasion.

Theoretically if I had some powdered or liquid norepinephrine , whatever form it may come in, would it have any recreational value on its own?

With cocaine IN never produced any desirable effects. Then I spent years IV’ing it which override my love for heroin for a while. I’m not 100% exact on how cocaine affects norepinephrine - but could pure norepinephrine mimic cocaine?
Is this a thing to your knowledge?

Thanks for entertaining my novice questions

 

[drewbocop]

...what are you getting out of this, exactly? This whole thing doesn't exactly sound pleasurable... How the fuck does norepinephrine have any recreational value? What? I don't really know how anyone is supposed to change your mind with sympathomimetic catecholamines... are you looking to feel like you're about to die?

Lol, literally every other drug you mentioned is a far better-suited option for what you're trying to achieve. Neurotransmitters in the body intended for stress responses aren't exactly what I would consider a good drug. You ask "any thoughts?" and my answer is "Yeah, what the fuck, why?"

Just take some kratom or something, dude.

 

[Docta]

that the “nor” always denotes like a breakdown of a parent chemical.

Yeah don't get me started, "nor-" as a prefix is a pain in the ass. It not only denotes the removal/displacement of methyl and ethyl groups down to single carbon atoms but also a term for normal what ever the hell "normal" means.

norepinephrine , whatever form it may come in, would it have any recreational value on its own?

I'm gonna say no, honestly if you're receiving a treatment that involves Desvenlafaxine there's a better than even chance you're not handling high stress environments that well. The addition of adrenaline or noradrenaline amplified by SNRI is not going to be a pleasurable experience.

The other thing to keep in mind is adrenaline a secondary amine probably wont trip the basic 5-panel drug test, whereas noradrenaline a primary amine will result in false positive for amphetamine 100% of the time. What @drewbocop says above is a better option, I don't know if kratom is a controlled substance where you live but I doubt a lab would be testing for 7-OH so that maybe a better option.

but could pure norepinephrine mimic cocaine?

lol no, adrenaline is a last line of defense hormone/neurotransmitter that the body releases in "fight-or-flight" situations.
Noting like the elevated self-esteem and feelings of invincibility associated with cocaine, exactly the opposite.

 

[Skorpio]

There are two major issues with this idea. First; that norepinephrine activity is inherently pleasurable. The many comments in this thread cover that quite thoroughly. Norepinephrine works in concert with dopamine and serotonin in most pleasurable stimulants like cocaine or methamphetamine.

So what if you were to ingest serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine together?

This leads to the second issue. In your brain these things function as neurotransmitters, not hormones. Hormones are released into the blood and diffuse like ink dropped into a swimming pool. They activate a whole host of receptors located on nearby tissue, and have a pretty profound effect on physiology, like how dopamine signaling in the kidney drop blood pressure.

Neurotransmitters function as pulses. Discrete amounts of these compounds are released onto terminals of specific neurons, then rapidly degraded. This gives a much finer degree of spatial and temporal fidelity, allowing for neurons to talk to other neurons in specific circuits.

People enjoy drugs which increase the levels of monoamines (serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine) like stimulants. These typically induce the release or inhibit the removal of monoamines from the synapse between neurons. Simply raising the plasma levels of these neurotransmitters is not enough to get them into the synapses at sufficient quantities, and will result in a lot of nasty off target effects due to the blood brain barrier keeping them away from the brain.

Even injecting them into the spinal cord (a real route of drug administration; see ziconotide) which bypasses the blood brain barrier, would not yield effects either as potently or as pleasant as using a drug to manipulate levels at the synapses.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

basic 5 panel -- man what are the 5 panels I will list a shitload of drugs you will enjoy --- no lab afterwards?

No Dimethocaine cut with 4fma did not replicate coke so not a chance...... but it sounds like you have a ton of options and you seem smart enough to know this

 

[Rads0y]

@Docta I appreciate the information and thank you for your patience dealing with my naivety.
Kratom is not controlled where I live, the only issue I have there is I’m on a low dose of buprenorphine so I’d have to lay off that for 2-3 days. I did get some 7-OH to try when I can.

My interest here is just exploring and wanting to try more obscure chemicals, with an inclination towards chems with lighter effects than your standard DOA.
Plus, anything to help keep me preoccupied from picking up zene’s again. Everything I’ve listed I’m already familiar with, and I know how easy it is to find a list of obscure chemicals online.
The whole norepinephrine thing just piqued my interest.

I suppose from here I’ll move on to things similar to cyclazodone, I still haven’t tried NMC.

I miss my barbiturates dearly, does anyone have any obscure suggestions for mild sedation? G is a little too heavy.

EDIT: Opioid peptides seem worthwhile..... I know, I'm all over the place with this post.

 

[Rads0y]

@Skorpio I appreciate you taking the time to explain this. I am familiar with the intrathecal route, and while I’m not above trying to use this route on my own I’m not sure that’s possible lol.

@notsmokeymcpot42088 I wish I was on a 5-panel. UA twice a week that gets sent off to a lab, but the paperwork says it only tests for 9 substances which are all pretty standard: AMP, BZO, COC, CR (creatine), ETG, FEN, MTD, OPI, THC.

& then once a month (very predictable, always the first week) an oral saliva test gets sent to a lab. I’ll come back in a few min to edit that list which is pretty extensive

EDIT: Here's the list of substances for the saliva analysis

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[helpingout]

@Docta I appreciate the information and thank you for your patience dealing with my naivety.
Kratom is not controlled where I live, the only issue I have there is I’m on a low dose of buprenorphine so I’d have to lay off that for 2-3 days. I did get some 7-OH to try when I can.

My interest here is just exploring and wanting to try more obscure chemicals, with an inclination towards chems with lighter effects than your standard DOA.
Plus, anything to help keep me preoccupied from picking up zene’s again. Everything I’ve listed I’m already familiar with, and I know how easy it is to find a list of obscure chemicals online.
The whole norepinephrine thing just piqued my interest.

I suppose from here I’ll move on to things similar to cyclazodone, I still haven’t tried NMC.

I miss my barbiturates dearly, does anyone have any obscure suggestions for mild sedation? G is a little too heavy.

I pissed positive for fentanyl after taking 7oh. I’d think it was a false positive but might be something to consider avoiding.

Also it’s got really insane addictive potential. You mentioned loving heroin. Well you’ll really love 7 oh. And it takes everybody right back to active addiction if they become dependent because the withdrawals are a whole other level.

 

[Rads0y]

I pissed positive for fentanyl after taking 7oh. I’d think it was a false positive but might be something to consider avoiding.

Also it’s got really insane addictive potential. You mentioned loving heroin. Well you’ll really love 7 oh. And it takes everybody right back to active addiction if they become dependent because the withdrawals are a whole other level.

Interesting, thanks for the heads-up.

 

[helpingout]

Interesting, thanks for the heads-up.

Yeah abso. I noticed most of the drugs you’re trying and the rewards you’re getting are super subtle. I’ve fucked around with primavene or whatever. It’s decent speed kinda. At least in a pinch which you’re in.

But straight up , 7 is hard drugs as far as I’m concerned. I treat it like if I had heroin. There’s rules and shit I have to follow.

By the way. I don’t know if this will happen for you but there’s this thing called kindling. The first times I did 7 oh I had nasty withdrawal like if I had picked up my old heroin habit where I left it. I decided to stick with the sick as a lesson for the future. I stayed sick for five days after like two days with seven. After the five I dosed again for two days and was sick for another five. But when I got to normal the second time I waited another five days. Dosed again a single evening oral dose with curvumin 1000mg and piperifine 10mg from walmart. Makes it extended release I think. Feels that way anyway. After burning up all my kindling in the first two sick periods. It seems like now I’m able to take it occasionally and not go into acute withdrawals every time I stop.

So rules for me that were helpful
1 stay abstinent from seven for a week between dosages whether sick or not
2 only oral dosing and with the curcumin stuff from wal
3 one day of dosing preferably in a single dose

Hope it helps you to design your own ruleset for 7 because you’re 100 going to need discipline or you’ll end up addicted to seven. It has seemingly no ceiling. People just go up and up and up with their dosages.

Please be careful

You won’t die but the dependency and addiction potential is insane

Please use caution

And salute to another person who rides the lightning

I got a kick out of that poster who said “do you like felling like your about to die.” Why yes. Yes I do. I call it edging

 

[drewbocop]

There are two major issues with this idea. First; that norepinephrine activity is inherently pleasurable. The many comments in this thread cover that quite thoroughly. Norepinephrine works in concert with dopamine and serotonin in most pleasurable stimulants like cocaine or methamphetamine.

So what if you were to ingest serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine together?

This leads to the second issue. In your brain these things function as neurotransmitters, not hormones. Hormones are released into the blood and diffuse like ink dropped into a swimming pool. They activate a whole host of receptors located on nearby tissue, and have a pretty profound effect on physiology, like how dopamine signaling in the kidney drop blood pressure.

Neurotransmitters function as pulses. Discrete amounts of these compounds are released onto terminals of specific neurons, then rapidly degraded. This gives a much finer degree of spatial and temporal fidelity, allowing for neurons to talk to other neurons in specific circuits.

People enjoy drugs which increase the levels of monoamines (serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine) like stimulants. These typically induce the release or inhibit the removal of monoamines from the synapse between neurons. Simply raising the plasma levels of these neurotransmitters is not enough to get them into the synapses at sufficient quantities, and will result in a lot of nasty off target effects due to the blood brain barrier keeping them away from the brain.

Even injecting them into the spinal cord (a real route of drug administration; see ziconotide) which bypasses the blood brain barrier, would not yield effects either as potently or as pleasant as using a drug to manipulate levels at the synapses.

10/10 post

Also, it gives me anxiety hearing people compare 7-OH to heroin withdrawals. High doses are pretty nasty, but fixable with quick tapers and switch back to plain leaf. The problem is the fiending.

 

[Rads0y]

Yeah abso. I noticed most of the drugs you’re trying and the rewards you’re getting are super subtle. I’ve fucked around with primavene or whatever. It’s decent speed kinda. At least in a pinch which you’re in.

But straight up , 7 is hard drugs as far as I’m concerned. I treat it like if I had heroin. There’s rules and shit I have to follow.

By the way. I don’t know if this will happen for you but there’s this thing called kindling. The first times I did 7 oh I had nasty withdrawal like if I had picked up my old heroin habit where I left it. I decided to stick with the sick as a lesson for the future. I stayed sick for five days after like two days with seven. After the five I dosed again for two days and was sick for another five. But when I got to normal the second time I waited another five days. Dosed again a single evening oral dose with curvumin 1000mg and piperifine 10mg from walmart. Makes it extended release I think. Feels that way anyway. After burning up all my kindling in the first two sick periods. It seems like now I’m able to take it occasionally and not go into acute withdrawals every time I stop.

So rules for me that were helpful
1 stay abstinent from seven for a week between dosages whether sick or not
2 only oral dosing and with the curcumin stuff from wal
3 one day of dosing preferably in a single dose

Hope it helps you to design your own ruleset for 7 because you’re 100 going to need discipline or you’ll end up addicted to seven. It has seemingly no ceiling. People just go up and up and up with their dosages.

Please be careful

You won’t die but the dependency and addiction potential is insane

Please use caution

And salute to another person who rides the lightning

I got a kick out of that poster who said “do you like felling like your about to die.” Why yes. Yes I do. I call it edging

Yeah I had that same thought about that feeling of death, ride on rider.

But anyways, that's absolutely wild what you're saying about 7-OH, I never would have expected that much from it. I'll have to try & do some homework on the affinity of 7-OH itself & vs buprenorphine. In your experience are you able to say if 7-OH can override 2-4mg of daily Suboxone? Originally I was planning on laying off my subs for 2-3 days before trying the 7, but if it is as you describe it, it may be worth trying sooner than later.

 

[helpingout]

10/10 post

Also, it gives me anxiety hearing people compare 7-OH to heroin withdrawals. High doses are pretty nasty, but fixable with quick tapers and switch back to plain leaf. The problem is the fiending.

I assume you mean me

Yeah tapering down to a stable jump point is mando with7 agreed

Plain leaf withdrawal in its own though is super fucked.

Unless you plan on staying on plain leaf. Dependence is acceptable if you have a source and are willing to accept it. But I don’t like dependency. So I’ve had to quit every time I’ve dabbled.

With 50mg doses I had mild to moderate withdrawals. And I did find it comfortable to chip down to 15mg doses and then jump from there.

Idk. Maybe it’s not as bad as heroin. Maybe. Most I’ve heard of people doing heroin was like three g a day. But if you listen online slot of people are taking like $500 worth of tablets in a day to get right.

It’s so easy to slip into something resembling addiction and dependency with 7 and that’s very similar to heroin. And the withdrawals really are a force to be reckoned with. I found them to be incredibly uncomfortable.

 

[helpingout]

Yeah I had that same thought about that feeling of death, ride on rider.

But anyways, that's absolutely wild what you're saying about 7-OH, I never would have expected that much from it. I'll have to try & do some homework on the affinity of 7-OH itself & vs buprenorphine. In your experience are you able to say if 7-OH can override 2-4mg of daily Suboxone? Originally I was planning on laying off my subs for 2-3 days before trying the 7, but if it is as you describe it, it may be worth trying sooner than later.

7oh will be felt through buprenorphine

But you’ll lose buprenorphine as a tool in opiate addiction because if you get 7 withdrawals the bupe won’t touch it.

 

[helpingout]

Side note if you can get your bupe dose between zero and 2mg you’ll actually start to feel the bupe as a partial agonist. Way cheaper and more stable than 7 addiction. Off labeling bupe as your own personal opioid is way underdone in the current medical climate. Coming from naive. Buprenorphine is objectively pleasurable although if you remember the feeling of a full agonist can be somewhat incomplete. Personally. I really liked it.

 

[Rads0y]

But you’ll lose buprenorphine as a tool in opiate addiction because if you get 7 withdrawals the bupe won’t touch it.

For something short term I'm not too worried about it. In the distant past I've balanced a fent habit with daily bup. I was able to get the best of both worlds with minimal WD's. It was a glorious time in its own right.

Off labeling bupe as your own personal opioid is way underdone

I completely agree & have used this sort of method in the past. Even recently from summer 24' until earlier this year I was able to maintain a minimal use of subutex 2-3 times a week with a dose of BDO before hand. I combined it with BDO mostly because I really feel the lack of bup being a partial agonist. It drives me crazy. I much prefer methadone, but it's not an option for me right now & I realllllly hate having to manage a MTD WD.

BDO used to be my perfect preoccupation to keep me from even wanting any other drugs. Unfortunately after some years of disciplined use, I began dosing too much & I was not aware that once you lose that magic - you simply cannot get it back. It breaks my heart.

 

[drewbocop]

I assume you mean me

Yeah tapering down to a stable jump point is mando with7 agreed

Plain leaf withdrawal in its own though is super fucked.

Unless you plan on staying on plain leaf. Dependence is acceptable if you have a source and are willing to accept it. But I don’t like dependency. So I’ve had to quit every time I’ve dabbled.

With 50mg doses I had mild to moderate withdrawals. And I did find it comfortable to chip down to 15mg doses and then jump from there.

Idk. Maybe it’s not as bad as heroin. Maybe. Most I’ve heard of people doing heroin was like three g a day. But if you listen online slot of people are taking like $500 worth of tablets in a day to get right.

It’s so easy to slip into something resembling addiction and dependency with 7 and that’s very similar to heroin. And the withdrawals really are a force to be reckoned with. I found them to be incredibly uncomfortable.

50mg is nothing compared to what I've been doing lol. I do 4 times that to start the day. But I've been on high dose plain leaf non stop for 10 years and using it off and on since '07. I use kratom plain leaf for pain management and anxiety but I've really opened pandora's box and I'm finding it very hard to go back. 7-OH is nasty stuff and VERY cost prohibitive right now. I'm feeling quite a bit of despair over this lately. Anyways, I don't mean to go off topic. It's very stimulating, I guess!