Changa recipe

[azgaza]

Well on this festival I was at this weekend I got offered a joint containing Changa while I was pretty much in a k-hole. My friends helped me smoke it by putting in my mouth and repeating 'DMT' to me until I smoked it, and that became the most intense and beautiful experience I ever had. A few years ago I had tried smoking DMT freebase and it turns out that is not for me. The smoke is too harsh, even doing it 'the right way', letting it vaporate and not burn and getting the white vapor stuff caused me to cough terribly within about half a second disabling me from smoking any of it. Either way, the changa went extremely smooth and easy and it came in the form of a joint. The experience was very beautiful. I first felt a body buzz as if all my cells went 'in bloom' and then found myself in another reality that was shaped like a round ceramic red-brown bowl that was also a temple that existed in a plane of pure golden light. I still felt the body buzz, which was intense and noticably tryptamine like. It was véry surreal, and felt much like 'pure beauty'. It also felt sacred in a way that mushrooms can feel. The ketamine made the experience slower and much more immersive and surreal. A bit more Dali like instead of pure tryptamine like. I loved the combination and I'll be sure to smoke DMT while on ketamine again. Anyone who is into dissociatives and doesn't mind an odd combination: this is a golden one, litteraly :D

Easy smokable DMT in a joint is very very much my way of doing it. Now I decided since I prefered this way of smoking it so much I want to make my own changa. I want to make myself 500 mg DMT worth of changa. The problem is how much Caapi I'd need. I'm sure I want to use Caapi because it's the traditional ayahuasca plant, also, the maoi in it sounds useful in the mix. So the main problem is 'how much of the caapi'.

I decided I could do either of these:

500 mg DMT
4 grams of Caapi
1 gram of Pepermint

This woud yield me +- 5 grams of plant material containing 100 mg of DMT on each gram. It'd be rich in Caapi so probably a bit more smokable ayahuasca then freebase DMT in feel. I'd be easy to dose, as 0.5 grams would be 50 mg of DMT, 0.25 would be 25 mg of DMT. That'd be one of the reasons to make it like this.

The other idea, is one I commonly hear, that is more of a 50/50 mix. If I'd do that I'd take this:

500 mg DMT
0.5 gram of Caapi

I'd have hard to dose material that way; the total weight would only be a gram. I'd probably smoke this mixed on any amount of pepermint leaf or cannabis that I'd find suitable to the way I'll be smoking it in.

What I'd like to know are the advantages and disadvantages to the amounts of Caapi in my mixture.

I will add the pepermint, it's a personal thing to make it my own Changa. Due to history of mine I have a thing for pepermint plants, I had a fair bit of an obsession with it in the past, if there's any association that will be good in an intense trip, it will be menthol. It's very very soothing to me.

 

[vibrancy3]

The other idea, is one I commonly hear, that is more of a 50/50 mix. If I'd do that I'd take this:

500 mg DMT
0.5 gram of Caapi

I'd have hard to dose material that way; the total weight would only be a gram. I'd probably smoke this mixed on any amount of pepermint leaf or cannabis that I'd find suitable to the way I'll be smoking it in.

What I'd like to know are the advantages and disadvantages to the amounts of Caapi in my mixture.

A 1:1 ratio is usually mandatory for making a changa mix with caapi

And advantage of adding a MAOI inhibitor to your dmt is that it prolongs the trip and is (imo) a lot more stronger experience.

A disadvantage that might put you of is the taste...

(please anyone with more wisdom correct me if i'm wrong, when it comes to changa mixes, don't have alot of knowledge)

 

[azgaza]

I think I got my recipe right in terms of planning. I have to test how smokable peppermint leaves are compared to caapi leaves as I'd like to make the base herb mix out of those two, the final mixture will pretty much depend on what mixture of those two is actually nice to smoke.

My final recipe:
- 500 mg DMT
- 500 mg of powdered Caapi vines

Solve in alcohol and dry solution into either:
- 500 mg peppermint leaves/ 500 mg caapi leaves.
or
- 1 gram of peppermint leaves.
or
- 750 mg of peppermint leaves and 250 mg of caapi leaves.

The total product will be 2 grams of which 25% is DMT and of which 25% has a high MAOi content. If the resulting mix is stíll harsh to smoke, I got me some crystaline menthol and will solve some more of that onto the mixture until the smoke is completely cool and pleasant to inhale. I seriously hated trying to freebase DMT so I'm going to make sure this product will be nothing like freebasing DMT in terms of harsh smoke.

I decided on posting my recipe idea here since there is pretty much nothing on Changa or any related way of making DMT more smokable on these forums and I figured they could use the information The whole idea is to get enough MAOi in it to make the DMT last longer and to give the whole product a bit more of an ayahuasca vibe while maintaining a product that is easy to smoke in either bongs, pipes or joints, hence all the menthol.

 

[morbiddoctor]

Likely what contributed to the slowness of the ketamine/changa experience was in fact the MAOI. It has a tendency to slow things down. I'm not sure of how bad mixing ketamine and a reversable MAOI such as those contained in caapi or rue for that matter is. Usually, MAOI and dissociatives are a no no though.

As for the mix, it seems like a good starter recipe. The only thing I would change is the caapi vine. Vine is a wood bark so it's probably going to be a bit harsh. I've been recommended to soak the shredded vine in 99% ISO for a month or do an alkaloid extraction on it to pull out the harmalas and lay this harmala rich ISO onto the rest of the herb And DMT. Or, When you use leaf, use a smaller amount. Like 1g dmt to 1g caapi leaf plus the extra mint leafs. So maybe 1g:1g:750mg. If you lay caapi ISO on leaf the changa will be really strong.

The beauty of changa is that its a mix based entirely on what you want to do. You don't even need exact weights if you don't want them. I personally like my 'electric salvialantro mix'. Calea zacetechichi, salvia, blue lotus, dmt, extracted rue harmalas.

Cheers!

 

[Ismene]

So the theory is you mix DMT into a joint and then casually smoke it and you somehow notice DMT effects?

I didn't think that was how it worked - I always thought you had a couple of chances to take massive breaths to get enough DMT into your system.

As for smoking the caapi I'd forget that. Even if you could smoke enough to have any effect (which I doubt) it takes time for it fully inhibit MAOI. By the time it started working your body would have inactivated the DMT anyway.

 

[skillet]

People do seem to find it more intense and longer lasting by adding the caapi, or whatever. I might try something similar with rue/rue extract, I really can't smoke dialkyltryptamines either, it feels like the stuff is recrystallising in my mouth and throat and is really unpleasant.

You could smoke it in a joint but I think a bowl would be better.

Edit: I see morbid's already done it with rue, did you do an A/B or just a crude alcohol extract?

As for smoking the caapi I'd forget that. Even if you could smoke enough to have any effect (which I doubt) it takes time for it fully inhibit MAOI. By the time it started working your body would have inactivated the DMT anyway.

Yeah that's what I'd have thought too, but it sounds like it works.

 

[wayab]

im reading Terence McKenna's "True Hallucinations" these days and they smoke ayahuaska there and get effects...

 

[azgaza]

Appearantly MAOi + ketamine is safe; the only study I could find is that in mice, a test was done with giving half of the mice a MAOi and the other half none, and then giving all the mice the LD50 for ketamine and they did that to test if more mice that got the MAOi would die. It did not make a difference, so in mice a MAOi does NOT lower the LD50 of ketamine. That says pretty much nothing about humans, and nothing about non lethal interaction on lower doses either, but it does say sómething I'd say. Also some subjective reports of people on a MAOi having no problems with ketamine whatsoever contribute to my general idea of the combination being safe.

Ayahuasca plants like Caapi and the other one only contain MAO-a inhibitors, I'd guess a dopamine reuptake inhibitor with a MAO-b inhibitor could potentially be a problem, but seeing how Caapi isn't even a MAO-b inhibitor I don't see any huge problems in that. The main issue is basically how little is known about such combinations. Either way, smoking Changa while in a K-hole felt very comfortable and safe. Beautiful, serene and out of his world too. I'm definatly going to repeat that combination, it's probably my new favorite. Actually, on ketamine I cóuld probably smoke plain DMT on itself; a properly numbed troath doesn't object nearly as much as a sober and dry one. Still; I liked the changa so much that I'm going to make my own.

So basically what I could best do in terms of the mixture would be:

500 mg DMT
500 mg powdered Caapi leaves

And then adding mint leaves and maybe extra menthol until the smoke is nice and smooth. If I can be bothered I might later see if I can do an extraction with the Caapi vines as I don't feel like waiting a month until I can try it out haha. In some time I'll experiment further for a better mix with this but I atleast have a good basic recipe for Changa now and in a few days all the ingredients too, so that's good times ahead.

To those suprised that solving DMT and drying it on plant material and smoking that mixture in a joint actually works; well it really does. I took three or four hits from the Changa joint, and while exhaling the third one or so it started to work. First with a noticable body buzz, but a véry comfortable one, that felt as if I went in bloom, then I noticed I was in a ceramic bowl shaped temple that looked half surreal greek and half indian amazone like in style which had both a sacred and a shamanic feel to it, while at the same time a very Dali like surreal atmopshere, especially outside the temple because éverything outside of that temple was made of warm golden light that was both serene, surreal and the planck-value of beauty at the same time. I'm sure that the ketamine contributed a lót to the atmopshere of how this all felt, it's probably the reason it felt so surreal and dali like, and I'm fairly sure the MAOi from the Caapi in the mixture made a difference as the effects lasted long and the afterglow, which I noticed strongly for 2-3 hours was very euphoric. I know that a MAOi would raise the present amount of serotonin in the brain and I certainly felt 'serotonin happy' more then I had done before.

Either way, I'd reccomend Changa, or atleast solving the DMT and putting it on a plant that is nice to smoke (could be menthol, could even be cannabis), to anyone who finds DMT harsh on the troath or lungs. I can't be the only one who is litteraly incapable of inhaling raw DMT vapor and you can still smoke that in a pipe and treat the smoke as if it was still freebase DMT. The effects hit just as hard as they should normally do but the smoke is 9244510 times more pleasant to inhale.

 

[dubdubbawobwob]

So the theory is you mix DMT into a joint and then casually smoke it and you somehow notice DMT effects?

I didn't think that was how it worked - I always thought you had a couple of chances to take massive breaths to get enough DMT into your system.

As for smoking the caapi I'd forget that. Even if you could smoke enough to have any effect (which I doubt) it takes time for it fully inhibit MAOI. By the time it started working your body would have inactivated the DMT anyway.

Anecdotal reports of changa working seem to promote the idea that the MAOI's are active in smokable doses. If so, the MAO inhibition probably would happen more quickly than oral ingestion and give the user a bigger time window to ingest their dose of DMT? Note that this is purely speculation, I'd love to hear if anybody knows anything that would support/reject this idea.