Can't use kratom anymore because of weird dizzyness/wobbles

[CuriousMeow]

Ah, I forgot to mention, I have heard anecdotal reports from people who have visited Indonesia and have seen the growing process (they produce 99% of the world's kratom supply).

I believe the underpaid, poor farmers sometimes add in stem or veins into the end product. I believe this may be contributing to the issue of wobbles, but I'm just speculating.

EXACTLY!

 

[daturetard]

Ah, I forgot to mention, I have heard anecdotal reports from people who have visited Indonesia and have seen the growing process (they produce 99% of the world's kratom supply).

I believe the underpaid, poor farmers sometimes add in stem or veins into the end product. I believe this may be contributing to the issue of wobbles, but I'm just speculating.

They definitely add stems but trust me the stems are actually potent as hell. I think its about quality.

 

[Jnowhere]

The growers in Mexico and Peru, Columbia, ect... are always exploited and barely survive and work day and night at times.

Quasimoto is right and would probably agree that the growers of coca leaves, opium poppies, Marijuana in other non western countries, ect. The bottom of the drug prodution( certain drugs anyways are like slaves or in some places kept in debt so they basically are slaves): Are treated badly

They are not the, ' bad guys' they have little choice, unless they want their families and themselves to starve to death, but even then they live in such extreme poverty it is sad.

 

[CavernsoftheMind]

On the topic of those side effects:

I have this one batch of a strain I tried 3 times now.
The first time with my then GF, we both felt very shitty. Wobbly, rapid eye movements, nausea, spinning.

I drew a skull & wrote danger on it and stashed it away. 2 years later I tried it again, in a smaller dose. Around 1/2x of what I usually used at that time. Same result. Even got a bit anxious from it.

Another year or so later, I tried it again. Same result, from an even smaller dose.

I don't have a clue what's going on here.
I really need to bring that batch to a lab one day. Would be very interesting to see the chemical composition.

 

[Quasimoto]

They definitely add stems but trust me the stems are actually potent as hell. I think its about quality.

I've had pure stem and vein from a few very reliable sources, several years ago before the great kratom quality crash of the 2020s I wouldn't describe it as potent as hell, but it is certainly psychoactive. Probably 50-75% less potent than kratom leaf, iirc. IDK, it's been awhile. Some vendors mix it with leaf itself then label it as stem and vein.

Anyways, it sure is a quality issue. But from what? Bad rainy season? Toxins in the soil? Improper drying/storage/processing?

It's not age or oxidation, I know that.

What I have noticed is that kratom that tastes unusually bitter relative to normal tends to have the wobble issue... but not always. Also, this seems to be an issue with people who move/buy weight in large scale wholesale.

Bit of a mystery.

 

[Quasimoto]

I really need to bring that batch to a lab one day. Would be very interesting to see the chemical composition.

Might not even get any answers. Kratom has 52 pharmacologically active alkaloids, of which about ~10 are the predominantly psychoactive ones your typical GC/MS lab that accepts kratom samples will identify for you.

I have looked at hundreds of analysis COAs over the years and have never seen any clue as to what it could be.

If it is a kratom alkaloid, it's one of the lesser or nonstudied ones. It could be one of the other plants in the area farmers cut their product with... or maybe a surrounding growing plant that somehow effects the composition of kratom.

 

[Quasimoto]

Also, whatever it is probably has a long half life, because the more you use that shitty kratom the worse it gets. It builds up in the system.

 

[daturetard]

I've had pure stem and vein from a few very reliable sources, several years ago before the great kratom quality crash of the 2020s I wouldn't describe it as potent as hell, but it is certainly psychoactive. Probably 50-75% less potent than kratom leaf, iirc. IDK, it's been awhile. Some vendors mix it with leaf itself then label it as stem and vein.

Anyways, it sure is a quality issue. But from what? Bad rainy season? Toxins in the soil? Improper drying/storage/processing?

It's not age or oxidation, I know that.

What I have noticed is that kratom that tastes unusually bitter relative to normal tends to have the wobble issue... but not always. Also, this seems to be an issue with people who move/buy weight in large scale wholesale.

Bit of a mystery.

I don't know, maybe some are less potent, but have you ever had cut leaf or fresh kratom? Both have quite a bit of stem and pack more punch than any other kratom product I have used. All of this is subjective but I'd love to see potency tests of different plant parts. As I said, I believe stems are quite potent and most powder vendors don't do as much as they claim to to remove veins before powdering.

 

[Quasimoto]

have you ever had cut leaf or fresh kratom?

No. Too expensive for my taste.

Native users in SEA generally pick off a leaf, strip out the vein and only eat/chew the green from what I've seen.

Maybe it's preference, because the vein has more stimulating alkaloids. I have no idea what is inside the stem.