Can't find conversion for hydro/oxy to morphine plugged...

[avcpl]

I have 15mg of generic extended release morphine pills (blue, made by Mallinckrodt).

I was planning on crushing and plugging them. But since morphine has a higher BA when plugged I'm not sure what the equivalent dose for one of these is.

And, even though I'm crushing it, I imagine the sustain release will have still have some effect and not be the equivalent to an instant release?

I normally take 20mg of hydro or oxy for a pleasant but not overwhelming time.

Would two of these be too much?

I know I should try one and then redose, but it can be difficult to assess that way and I am trying to evaluate this med before my appt. on Monday.

Thanks for any input!

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

I would try one and then wait, the extended-release mechanism cannot be completely defeated.

You mention that you're trying to evaluate the medication before your appointment. Were you prescribed to take these orally? If so, I would take them orally (or however your prescribing medical professional directed) so you can give them an accurate evaluation.

 

[avcpl]

yes, they're prescribed for oral use only, but I only use my pain medication once a week so I want to get the most out of it, so I won't actually ever be taking these orally.

I know that makes me a bad person, but I'm just trying to maximize my enjoyment while I have my once a week pain respite without going overboard.





.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^Nobody is judging you here my friend, I was just trying to get some clarification about what you meant in your OP.

Harm reduction is what we're all about.

 

[Pharmokinetictal]

In terms of conversion. I would never put Hydro and Oxy near each other. Ever. Just because percocet is almost as commonly prescribed as vicodin doesnt make it equal. Oxy is 1.5x stronger than morphine. And vicodin is about half as strong as morphine. Oxy has the highest BA I believe. Then morphine, then hydro. But since they're all opiates...their respective increase in rectal BA should be consistent.

Also, crushing up an XR generally releases most of the product. The differences youre going to see if their metabolic products. Morphine remains morphine in the body until it is metabolized into something inactive, whereas hydrocodone becomes hydromorphone and oxycodone becomes oxymorphone. The latters of both are stronger than their parent drug. Hydro is still going to be the weakest. If you're looking for a safe and strong way of using a one time opiate, talk to your doctor about oxycontin and see what he says. And make sure to listen.

Purdue just reformulated their oxycontin tablets to make it harder to crush and abuse, however, that might only be for the 80mgs. If youre only taking 15mg morphine....then you'd probably only get a 10mg Oxycontin. If rectal is the only way you want to take it...then just stick to the MS-Contin unless you get prescribed oxycontin.

 

[TheLostBoys]

In terms of conversion. I would never put Hydro and Oxy near each other. Ever. Just because percocet is almost as commonly prescribed as vicodin doesnt make it equal. Oxy is 1.5x stronger than morphine. And vicodin is about half as strong as morphine. Oxy has the highest BA I believe. Then morphine, then hydro. But since they're all opiates...their respective increase in rectal BA should be consistent.

Also, crushing up an XR generally releases most of the product. The differences youre going to see if their metabolic products. Morphine remains morphine in the body until it is metabolized into something inactive, whereas hydrocodone becomes hydromorphone and oxycodone becomes oxymorphone. The latters of both are stronger than their parent drug. Hydro is still going to be the weakest. If you're looking for a safe and strong way of using a one time opiate, talk to your doctor about oxycontin and see what he says. And make sure to listen.

Purdue just reformulated their oxycontin tablets to make it harder to crush and abuse, however, that might only be for the 80mgs. If youre only taking 15mg morphine....then you'd probably only get a 10mg Oxycontin. If rectal is the only way you want to take it...then just stick to the MS-Contin unless you get prescribed oxycontin.

I thought hydrocodone had a higher BA than Morphine? Oxycodone does have a higher BA than both. Also, Purdue has reformulated all their oxy's, not just the 80mg ones.

 

[kokaino]

Orally, hydrocodone and morphine are approximately equal in potency and oxycodone is slightly more potent than morphine orally (this is due to hydro and oxy being more orally active, not more potent). However, morphine is 2x more potent than oxycodone via the IV route and probably 3-4x more potent than hydrocodone via the IV route.

Rectally administered morphine has a BA that is very high, almost like IV or IM - so I'd say morphine is at least 2x more potent than both oxycodone and hydrocodone when plugged. Morphine is overall the more potent drug, it's just that oxycodone and hydrocodone are more ORALLY ACTIVE, but not more potent.

 

[avcpl]

^thanks kokaino that makes sense. I've just seen so much differing information on the subject.

From bluelight's bioavailability thread it says "Morphine ~30% oral, ~30% rectal (though pH dependent)" without noting whether the differences in pH would make a higher or lower BA than 30%--I've since learned that a higher Ph will increase the BA, perhaps that should added!
Other sites list rectal as high as 80% BA.

I'm just going to try 15mg to see how it goes.

Thanks for the responses

 

[kokaino]

No problem! There's this misconception that oxycodone is a more potent drug than morphine, while hydrocodone is equal to morphine in potency. This is not true. They are more orally active drugs (oral BA are 80%+ for hydro and 87% for oxy, while morphine's oral BA ranges anywhere from 10-35% ).

When the drugs are administered in a way that 100% (IV) of the drug crosses the BBB, morphine is much more potent.

I've known people who've OD'd or came close on morphine because of misconceptions like this.
The same goes for hydromorphone, it's shit orally - but some people are truly ignorant to the potency of these kinds of drugs. They just think that if they suck orally, then they suck in general.