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Cannabis reducing harmful effects of MDMA use.

ntr420

Bluelighter
Joined
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If you follow safety guidelines like not re-dosing after 2 hours, and waiting 30 days minimum between rolls, you will most likely never experience any long term effects from MDMA use. However, it's good to know that Cannabis has your back too. A recent study suggests that THC prevents neurotoxicity from MDMA use in mice.

It's easy to see why, the more you really research cannabis the more you find it fights cancer and protects you from radiation, and you can almost live off of the seeds.


And, I can't express enough how great a nice big rip of some dankity dank feels when you're peaking. Take one big hit and stand up and do a back bend and blow the hit out, your head will thank you.
 
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I've also read that cannabis can bring stuff like schizofrenia to the surface, aswell as lead to psychosis. It has been mentioned aswell that it makes you more sensitive to depression following MDMA use. It's kind of a double edged sword.
 
Schizophrenia is an awful mental health condition, can literally tear families apart too.

The only things with mdma and cannabis i can say is, seeing as i tried mdma long before i touched cannabis was that my experience on mdma never used to have ANY anxiety whatsoever,
But since i tried cannabis it has,
BUT
It has made me more sensible with doses i think.
The first thing i do after being on mdma and ket all night at a rave when i get in is hit my vaporizer though... Such an amazing dreamy high i was getting beautiful CEV's


I think with all drugs its mainly responsible use i guess.
 
This seems so strange to me, because I have always smoked cannabis through all my interactions with other drugs and it always "takes the edge off" and makes things seem smoother. Maybe that's because I smoke cannabis everyday?

I have heard that cannabis can activate psychological symptoms that were otherwise dormant, but I have always experienced much the opposite. Also, with cannabis there are always so many scholarly health journals that publish conflicting information, I wonder how much money private pharmaceutical companies and their pull with corrupt non-profit organizations funnel into the research. I know they lobby like crazy to keep it illegal in the US.
 
You might not notice the long term effects if you follow your guideline but i just want to make it clear that it will still be damaging in one way or another. It's a proven fact that it is a nuerotoxin, there is no way a chemical could release that much dopamine and serotonin at once (as well as other neurotransmitters) and not be damaging at all.
 
William Burroughs used to say potheads were weird and I tend to agree. I guess its just that weirdos and pot go together. Sorry if I offended anybody.
 
Several things wrong with your stance...

Just as Finished said - MDMA is a neurotoxin.
Look at the period at the end of that sentence.
Accept it.

Many things are toxic or poisonous in the right dosage.
And controlling dosage is the KEY to all drug use.
Disregarding this is the cause of MOST damage.

But MDMA is a special and powerful serotonin releasing drug and likely 'toxic' even in small doses.
And many studies have found mild yet detectable cognitive impairments in 'moderate' MDMA users.
And heavier users display a dose-dependent drop in tests of cognition, especially verbal memory.

The idea that MDMA can be somehow taken the 'right' way should be dismissed.
Accept the fact that each dose causes some level of damage.
And roll with that understanding.

And never forget that redosing and rolling on consecutive days causes more and more neurotoxicity.

In regards to cannabis, the study you allude to is rather simple.
Similar to different passages in the Bible, people can point to different scientific articles to support their singular view.
I can't tell you how many media reports have caused me to roll my eyes with simple statements about 'low' or 'high' levels of serotonin.
As if the brain had a binary On/Off switch for its densest and most intricate neurotransmitter network...

The fact is that understanding the brain requires an exhaustive effort that few drug users are capable of undertaking.
Even the most qualified scientists that spend decades of their life in such a pursuit will admit that we are only beginning to get a picture.
For the casual internet browser it is critical to seek multiple lines of research in order to avoid a catastrophic oversight.

Here is a decent paper that examines the overlapping and complex interactions between cannabis and MDMA.
http://www.sfu.ca/~mfs2/SUMMER 2010/HSCI 214/MDMA/572.pdf
A few excerpts...

"In neurocognitive terms, cannabis and Ecstasy/MDMA have detrimental effects on different, although sometimes overlapping, aspects of memory and cognition. Those who take both drugs can therefore display neurocognitive deficits in several areas. In neuropsychiatric terms, each drug is again linked with various problems, especially in those who have taken them regularly. However, their acute effects are opposite in terms of oxidative stress. In laboratory animals, MDMA increases oxidative stress, whereas cannabinoids decrease it. This leads to the prediction that, in humans, cannabis may be providing some degree of protection against the neurotoxic effects of MDMA."


The important word to catch is 'acute'.
This is a scientific term meaning a single high exposure to the drug.
A large dose of MDMA causes an increase in oxidative stress, in part due to 'lipid peroxidation' or the breakdown of cellular membranes and conversion of mitochondria into a reactive molecule.
Cannabis, also in VERY high amounts, will oppose this process by acting as an anti-oxidant.
It should be noted that very high doses of Vitamin C will also offer substantial protection - indeed complete protection if massive intravenous doses are given.
It kinda leaves cannabis in the 'acute' dust.

But smoking weed may actually offer some limited protection during MDMA use.
Whether or not it is substantial is difficult to determine, but the possibility exists.
This does not close the book on the issue, as your link would suggest.

Long-term use of cannabis is strongly linked to psychological problems, especially among MDMA users.

The first cross-sectional study (Gouzoulis-Meyfrank et al., 2000; Daumann et al., 2001) examined the cognitive functions and psychopathology scores of 28 cannabis users, 28 combined Ecstasy/cannabis users and 28 non-user controls. The second prospective study (Gouzoulis-Meyfrank et al., 2003; Daumann et al., 2004) compared 30 heavy and 30 moderate club-drug and Ecstasy users with a parallel group of non-user control, over an 18-month period. The combined data from both studies indicted that it was cannabis, rather than Ecstasy, that played the major role in the psychopathological manifestations. In contract, the neurocognitive symptoms, and particularly the memory impairments, were most closely related to the extent of previous Ecstasy/MDMA usage.

I have encountered quite a few studies that agree with this finding.
And it has a lot of personal relevance, because I was a long-term cannabis smoker (9 years) prior to the start of MDMA.
And it took me less than 12 experiences, with an average of 2 tabs per session, for me to reach a truly horrific consequence that could be labeled 'psychosis'.
Not only am I certain that being a chronic user of pot played an integral role in my eventual downfall, but I have supporting evidence from my wife who is also experiencing a milder yet quite persistent change in mood.

Even after weeks of abstaining, a SINGLE occasion of smoking (even two puffs) will result in a horrible and 'psychotic' breakdown the following day.
And this is 16 months after our last MDMA use.

I cannot say it strongly enough - LONG TERM USE OF CANNABIS CAN GREATLY INCREASE THE RISK OF PSYCHOSIS OR EMOTIONAL SUFFERING AMONG MDMA USERS.

Yet even in this paper there is contradictory data:
"In several studies, unexpectedly better psychobiological profiles have been found in Ecstasy users who take cannabis compared to those who do not. In a study of 278 Ecstasy users, Milani et al. (2002) found that monthly or weekly cannabis use was associated with significantly lower rates of anger and hostility compared to non-cannabis users (in addition to daily cannabis users being significantly more impaired on several psychopathology scales). Rodgers et al. (2003) found significantly greater procedural errors in Ecstasy/MDMA users compared to non-users (see above); however, amongst this group of Ecstasy users, the use of cannabis was significantly associated with less errors. In another study of 234 Ecstasy/MDMA users, Parrott et al. (2002) found that the use of cannabis was associated with significantly lower rates of depression, and fewer ‘total negative symptoms’. Currently, the hypothesis that cannabinoids may provide some relief against the neurotoxic effects of MDMA, must be considered as only very tentative (Parrott et al., in preparation)."

As I said before, it takes a real effort to understand the contradictory findings among scientific research.
I wish I could post twenty studies to back up my words of caution.
But even if I did you could point to the few studies above and proclaim the verdict to be 'vague'.
And continue smoking.
And rolling.

The evidence that MDMA is neurotoxic is overwhelming.
And cannabis is STRONGLY associated with schizophrenia.
It is even discussed in this very easy-to-read paper.

MDMA targets the Prefrontal Cortex - home of our highest cognitive and emotional pathways.
Here lies your thinnest and most fiber-like serotonin axons.
They are the first to be lost to neurotoxicity, and the last to recover.

And cannabis causes a lasting alteration in the size and shape of the Prefrontal Cortex, among chronic users.
This may explain why it is so widely used among schizophrenics despite the fact that it exacerbates their symptoms.
Is is even a surprise that the combination of these two events in the PFC can be a potentially damaging combination?

Cannabis is no longer just a 'confounding' factor in MDMA research.
It is firmly implicated in the psychological and emotional downfall of many users.
Myself included.

And just about EVERY single person I have counseled since November of last year on Bluelight...
 
Several things wrong with your stance...
...
This does not close the book on the issue, as your link would suggest.
....
Oh, right I meant to say this study suggests not shows.

...And just about EVERY single person I have counseled since November of last year on Bluelight...
I do see a lot of people on this forum who report that cannabis has caused similar negative psychological effects as you, but I have been rolling since 2005, and the only negative effects I have ever experienced were from sleep deprivation. It also seems like about half of the members of this community report that cannabis reduces nausea, anxiety, and paranoia. I've always smoked weed while rolling, and I really feel a need to warn caution against this psychosis effect becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy for people who smoke cannabis on MDMA.

Cannabis can't prevent you from absorbing harmful radiation, but it has strong protective properties that greatly reduce the harmful effects of radiation. It can't cure cancer, but then again it has in many instances. Cannabis helps to protect us from heavy metal exposure, non-iodine halogen exposure, radiation exposure, and so I suspect it's role in regards to MDMA exposure to be AT LEAST significant.

Almost EVERY single person I have encountered report that cannabis reduces anxiety or nausea during MDMA use.

This is how cannabis has always worked for my friends, my wife and me while we were on MDMA:

1. Reduction of jaw clenching/teeth grinding during peak.
2. Reduction of nausea.
3. Elongation of plateau (try taking a huge hit of dank and standing up and stretching while holding it in, you will receive a great head rush.)
4. Reduction of anxiety from too much light or imperfect set/setting.
5. Temporary drying of the mouth.
6. Bringing together of people in camaraderie.
7. Bad breath..
8. Next day effects seem minimized by smoking lots of cannabis.
9. Helps with sleep.


FirstBadComedown, are there any confounding personal issues that smoking cannabis on MDMA may have surfaced, or do you suspect that just using cannabis while rolling caused your negative effects?
 
I like your writing style - not many people find it necessary on BL to write clearly and concisely.
For the record I am glad that you have not suffered the serious side-effects that some long-term MDMA users have.
But I have little doubt that you still exhibit some cognitive decline, however subtle.

Assuming you accept this, all that is left is the issue of anxiety/depression/psychosis.
And this does NOT happen to the majority of MDMA users.

Despite my strong posts I never intend this to be the argument.
I always post with the knowledge that most people will suffer cognitive changes, but not emotional catastrophe.
However I am motivated to indicate that the risk is MUCH higher for serious smokers of bud.
Despite the limited neuroprotective properties it may hold.

We have already agreed that cannabis offers protection in acute doses.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390811002784
This is a rodent study that shows neuroprotection from chronic administration of THC, measured by social behavior, hyperthermia, and SERT and 5-HT levels in multiple brain regions. I could easily point to such a study in support of the idea that long-term cannabis use somehow protects against neurotoxic binge model MDMA use.

But right away we see that this study administers THC for only a few short weeks prior to MDMA.
There is also the higher complexity of the human brain to consider.
At best this study suggests short-term neuroprotection from THC, but not long-term.
I would like to see the study of both rats and primates that smoke daily for five years or more, and are then administered MDMA!
I bet we would see very different results.

But this is not a practical experiment design, obviously.
I have also encountered studies that show improved cognitive scores from current poly-drug users versus MDMA alone.
Is it possible that THC somehow combats cognitive decline for a period of time?

Much more common are the studies that show that opposite.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13803390903042361
MDMA alone is normally less problematic than MDMA + cannabis or other drugs.
And this is the overwhelming trend in research - polydrug users perform worse and are more prone to psychological problems.

This one acknowledges the dichotomy without making firm conclusions.
Straddling the fence...
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/20/2/188.short

Here is another that tracked a small group of users over a two year period.
It concludes that MDMA does reliably lead to deficits in verbal memory and that cannabis may lend an important influence in this result.
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/22/5/498.short

And finally a very long read that illustrates the link between cannabis and schizophrenia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1764544/
Many have tried to argue that cannabis only causes psychosis in those who were destined to experience it anyways, and some limited data does suggest this effect.
But there is also strong data that suggests cannabis can cause this in people who are not otherwise likely to develop such conditions.
Most likely there is truth to both points of view.

I can clearly remember how amazing weed was while rolling.
A better pair of drugs never existed!

While I never had any real nausea, I cannot imagine rolling without being stoned.
Especially when the peak hits.
Then the roll just comes back later after smoking!

But if cannabis improves the negative side-effects the next day, this implicates the neurotoxic properties of MDMA - rather than highlighting the protective properties of weed.
Sure it can do both.
The cannabinoid system may reveal a new class of very useful drugs in the future, but the anti-cancer and radiation properties of regular bud is highly questionable.

I should actually point to one of your statements - "Almost EVERY single person I have encountered report that cannabis reduces anxiety or nausea during MDMA use."
Read enough of the schizophrenia research and you will find that most patients perform BETTER on cognitive tests for a short time following cannabis use.
And they also report significant improvement in mood, also temporary.
It is the subsequent loss of the drug from the brain that precipitates a psychotic event most reliably - although acute reactions during use can also occur.
I thought it was notable that both schizophrenics and MDMA users can label cannabis an anti-anxiety medication.

Almost nothing in medicine and science is one-sided.
Cannabis does both - it improves the experience, eases negative symptoms, and offers limited neuroprotection in acute and (possibly) chronic administration.
But it can also cause drastic alterations to the brain that encourage psychosis and anxiety (esp. with long-term use) even in people NOT prone to mental illness.
Make no mistake - cannabis is a powerful mind-altering drug.

Confounding personal issues?
Well honestly no.

If I suffered any depression or unhappiness in life it was fairly mild.
I always had decent self-esteem, a good work ethic, a very attractive wife, a demanding sex life, and an intellectual ability beyond most of my fellow students/workers.
And about a year before my 'bad comedown' I began exercising daily and have continued to do so throughout my recovery.
I can point to poor diet habits, which I find to be quite relevant.

I was never out of shape, but for years I ate too much fast food.
And now I understand that the serotonin system is the connection between the brain and the intestines, primarily.
Yes - poor dietary habits would be a great personal suspect of mine, a confounding factor.
As is poor sleep habits - also a key brain function mediated by serotonin.

Keep those things in mind as you continue to roll.
You already mentioned sleep yourself.

I have thought about this long and hard, including during a time when my mental motivation and desire to answer questions was extremely high.
I asked myself many times about what other causes could have played a role.
There was a 100mg dose of benedryl at 48 hours post MDMA.
While this was a critical error and directly precipitated the serotonin syndrome that followed the next day, it alone would not have caused this event.

Neither would the modest 30 tabs of MDMA I consumed over two years.
Or the mini-binge that involved taking 2.5 tabs two weekends in a row, then another half the next day!
Nor do I solely suspect my use of an enema the last night I was rolling and having digestive discomfort. 8o

The fact is ALL of these things are independent factors.
And my proclivity to redose, sometimes twice, EVERY time I rolled cannot be ignored.
I now understand that preventing that foolish practice alone would have prevented the outcome - regardless of all other factors!
That is why "NO REDOSING" is my number one rule on BL.
It would save nearly ALL MDMA victims.

But at the end of this list I have NO choice but to conclude that one of the biggest factors....
probably the second leading risk behind redosing...
was a DECADE of regular cannabis use.

No other factor was as persistent in my life.
No other factor appears as reliably in research.
No other factor is shared by most of my fellow online victims.
Or my wife.

There is no doubt within me - CANNABIS was the MOST important risk factor after redosing.
Period.

But it took a LOT of smoking, I must admit.
I am no cannabis hater, but heavy long-term smoking is just stupid for psychedelic drug users!
That is what I want to impress upon BL - NO REDOSING MDMA, and STOP SMOKING WEED EVERY DAY.
That would cover 90% of my mission objectives.

I hope someone is paying attention.
 
Ok, so I should have just read your thread post before asking about the personal issues, but when you posted your bad comedown thread, it seems like the digestive issue alone would cause me to have anxiety/depression/psychosis much worse than you did. The fact that you endured that for so many days after the event makes it seem like (and you seemed to think so at the time) that could have been the ringleader of the possible culprits.

It really seems like if you tore something down there... that would cause you to poison yourself with your own fluids and crazy chemicals, or throw off your hormones, or worse. The irony is it seems like something that I would turn to smoking cannabis to suppress the symptoms. But, your symptoms are your friend, and they are trying to tell you something. It seems like a fantasy stretch, but maybe you don't want your symptoms to go away on some other level because you know they are there to help you. When I was having like marriage problem deep depression ect... a few years ago, I couldn't even think of smoking cannabis, even though I know it may have in some instance helped me eat or sleep or feel like I didn't want to die... but the idea of suppressing my symptoms in any form was completely terrifying. I knew what was right and what I needed, and it had nothing with me feeling good or being comfortable, I needed to resolve things and fix my marriage and pray for a miracle.



But, I'm sure if anybody wants more clarity on this issue they can check out your thread, I want to look deeper and see if you show where your suspicions shifted from the intestinal related stuff to the idea that cannabis played more of a factor.
 
Yes, I was convinced for nearly a month that my problem was intestinal.
I suspected a number of conditions.

The first was mesenteric ishemia.
And if you could only imagine the pain in my gut the first three nights you would understand this.
I was certain that had I layed down, versus standing up, my intestines would RUPTURE.

The strange thing that I struggle to communicate is that my problems did not begin in the large intestine at the site of the enema.
Although I had a little blood in my stool the next day, it didn't hurt at all.
It didn't even bother me emotionally.

But after taking a large dose of DPH and going to the moon, dizzy and drunk feeling, I woke up the next day to the greatest pain in my gut that I have EVER felt.
I cannot imagine more pain occurring to anyone - and it happened in the stomach.
Just below, actually - putting direct pressure on my liver.
And over the course of a few hours the pain and weight that felt like it could tear me apart inside slowly moved south.

Rather than pain in my lower GI, I was NUMB.
Very numb.
And so were my genitals.

For MONTHS.
I barely felt anything around my dick, testicles, anus...
Even my thighs, legs, and bottoms of hands and feet were disconnected!
I always did get clammy hands on MDMA...

To conclude that I only had an intestinal injury is pretty short-sighted.
And I realized that once my symptoms proved themselves to be neurological and persistent.
By week four, right after posting that thread, I accepted that I had brain damage.

It was a difficult thing to accept, because my mind felt amped up on anxiety but still ME underneath.
When I didn't eat I felt completely 100 percent normal.
I lost a lot of weight that month.

It wasn't until I found Piracetam at four weeks that my intestines started contracting and digesting normally.
And it took ONE DAY for this to happen.
I couldn't believe the causation between intestines and brain!

I came to understand that the intestines are NOT like any other organ.
They are gifted with a greater innervation and blood supply than ANY organ in the body.
And their OWN NERVOUS SYSTEM.
The intestines were the first brain to evolve, and many doctors would agree with this statement.

Serotonin serves as the link between two separate nervous systems.
And it is the anchoring of the intestines into the brain that defines our emotions.
Our highest pathways.

This is where MDMA, and all serotonergic drugs, derive their powerful effects.
From the brain-gut connection.

How do I prove this?
How can I convince young drug users on the internet that their soul lies in the gut?

There aren't enough scientific articles in the world to prove this - because we are barely able to understand these biological systems.
But rest assured that the connection between the higher brain (PFC) and the lower GI has a lot of meaning.
More than you could possibly imagine.

Just read about IBS sufferers.
They take up so many medical resources that doctors can't handle them!
Their behavior certainly approaches psychosis.
But even they would say that only direct physical sensations are to blame.
They have very little to offer these people in terms of treatment and medicine is mystified by such conditions.

As my intestines have continued to improve in function, gaining tone and contracting lower and lower, I have felt my brain's blood supply even out.
Sensations crawling across the scalp and face persisted for months, with terrible soul-destroying 'head-pressure' past the 9 month mark!
It wasn't until about 14 months of recovery that my head-pressure really stopped. Or at least minimized to a level that I could live with the rest of my life.
But oddly, every few weeks, I get a surge. A pain in my neck, and I can tell that an artery in my brain has sprouted a new branch.

Angiogenesis is a well known property of brain tissue and is a sign of still living neurons vying for blood supply.
All the head-pressure, strokes, sprouting of blood vessels, and anxiety as well was DIRECTLY related to digestion.
Ever since the first night of Serotonin Syndrome.

And SS often involves significant pain, swelling, and increased sounds in the abdomen of its suffers.
And nearly every story of MDMA induced 'brain damage' that is seen on the internet shows a DRASTIC change in diet that can only be explained by several anxiety and pain during digestion. Plenty of people lose weight during recovery, and experience fevers and swollen glands in the abdomen.

A very intense month it was.
I will never experience anxiety like that for the rest of my life.
It just isn't possible.
I could endure torture from the most cruel person in history and still not approach the 'cortisol response' that I felt during Serotonin Syndrome.

It was literally like my intestines were destroying my brain, relentlessly.
And there was no warning.

This happens in people without enemas, of course.
I had used them before without ANY problems at all.
And once I accepted that the enema was a factor, but not the real cause, I learned more than I ever thought I could about the brain.
In a period of six months I must have digested thousands of abstracts, 30-40 full papers, and 10 META studies.

I wish I could remember it all, but alas I had to return to normal life.
One day I will resume my research and probably in a more controlled and disciplined manner.
I was a truly brilliant person before this happened to me, and oddly enough I was motivated to use my brilliance more than ever.
Despite feeling crazy I was very methodical in my efforts.
And my intelligence hadn't been reduced one bit.

But now, after actual recovery from anxiety, I do feel less sharp.
I read plenty of studies that showed delayed onset of cognitive decline among MDMA users.
Around one year of abstinence verbal recall deficits really begin to show.
Why does it take so long?
And why is the effect so persistent?

Because 'cortical SERT recovery' requires that serotonin axons re-sprout in the higher brain - disrupting the existing neuronal structure.
If true SS and brain damage didn't cause a loss of intelligence for me until 12 months later - what does this say about long term MDMA users?
It is IMPOSSIBLE to tell how much damage you are doing to yourself until you put a LOT of time between you and the drug.
Read all the reports and studies you want, but only abstinence reveals the true nature of consequence.

Now, at 16 months, I am regaining some mental sharpness that I have lived without for 6 months.
I am pushing myself at work, and its having a real effect.
I am making lots of money and feeling better self esteem, but the cognitive improvement - the ability to write again...
This is a great reward.
And a true indication of the plasticity of the mind.

BDNF is not just an exercise chemical.
It is an activity-related protein.
Enough hard work and persistence can really make a difference.
But the suffering and down-fall must come first.

I decided to leave my original thread in place for a good reason.
First, there is the principle of truth in science - no data should be dismissed.
And although some of my readers will question my credibility upon reading it, and laugh, it certainly illustrates the critical connection between the intestines and the brain.
I want people to think of their intestines as an extension of the mind itself, NOT a separate organ.
And really the brain is an extension of the intestines.
 
I think the commonly thought, "one month rule" should be revised and henceforth you all should push a 2-3+ rule. Your serotonin does not regenerate at the rate that is released if you rule every month. This means that using every month is always harmful in the long run. I hope you all can find solidarity in this practice as I fear for where our scene may be headed in the years to come as more and more people do permanent damage to the chemical levels of their brains.
 
I also recall seeing that cannabis can actually increase toxicity due to its de-hydrating effects.

People are probably gonna jump on me for posting a negative thing about weed, but you've always gotta think about both sides of the picture.
 
I also recall seeing that cannabis can actually increase toxicity due to its de-hydrating effects.

People are probably gonna jump on me for posting a negative thing about weed, but you've always gotta think about both sides of the picture.

Yeah, but with MDMA it's so easy to regulate hydration, mainly because one is concerned. I've probably never done a better job in my life. When you feel thirsty, or some body reminds you that you're thirsty, take a drink! I'm sure that I don't usually consider optimum hydration in daily life, but when I'm on Ecstasy, it's like top priority.

But then again I really only like to roll (go off my tits or whatever y'all call it) :) in intimate home settings with close friend where it's really easy to regulate hydration and temperature.

It does suck to smoke right before sex on x, because of the bad breath/dry mouth that you'll get. You need that slober for your lady friend bubba.
 
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A very intense month it was.
I will never experience anxiety like that for the rest of my life.
It just isn't possible.
I could endure torture from the most cruel person in history and still not approach the 'cortisol response' that I felt during Serotonin Syndrome.
I'm so glad you pulled through for us. <3
 
Y
But then again I really only like to roll (go off my tits or whatever y'all call it) :) in intimate home settings with close friend where it's really easy to regulate hydration and temperature.

Yeah but sometimes in a club/rave though it can be quite hard to get to the bar and drink enough water. I find I have a constantly dry mouth when I smoke bud on MDMA, no matter how much water I drink. Can't get my head round people doing it at home, you miss half the effect if you're chilling without a huge soundsystem, the synergy is what makes MD special!
 
There should be no rule or regulation of how long you wait to take MDMA in a safe manner for your brain. It is never a safe manner for your brain, yea you'll make it through the experience alive .. it is safe in that manner but speaking of destroying axonal connections it is indeed a dangerous drug. The proof is in the threads where people post on blue light saying they have only rolled 3 times total in their life and feel brain damaged, no other drug does that to people unless speaking of dirty research chemicals. Every synthesis of MDMA varies and sometimes it comes out badly, as well as all the other cuts and combinations people take with it making it more toxic. People on this site should get rid of the mind set of , stick to this plan and you'll be fine. Rather they should say ok i know the dangers of MDMA on my brain so i should take it once in a blue moon with NO time schedule. Meaning you don't mark your calender for the first day of every 3 months as your roll day, rather wait for a random special occasion far away from your last roll and roll then. Imo that's the best approach to using MDMA

Im only bringing this up because back when i was rolling , which was my join date it was 2008. Most of the moderators and posters were basically saying if you stick to one month in between you will be fine. And thats what i did, i had at least a 1 month gap in between and it was working for a little while. But after like 4 or so times i was becoming a mess, distant from my own body and emotions. Yet i still rolled in that manner for like another year. I don't know if it was the daily pot usage with the MDMA that really brought anxiety and DR in me but it happened. Good news is i feel heaps better then i did before
 
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