Opioids Can you abuse the codeine in Polly Tussin AC

[Fresco]

Oh woah, sincere apologies! (not sleeping for the past 48hrs+ means my brain isn't as sharp as it usually is!). I'll try to explain it as much as I can without rambling (I do that! =P).

Basically between person to person (even say within the same family for instance) there's is a degree of bio-variability - differences in the way your physical make-up is brought together then say, your sister - from that fact that your hair might be a lighter colour to, in the example I said above, defects in parts of the body.

Once well known one is that 10% of the white population (about 6% of people from Arab decent, about 3% from black decent), purely due to random changes/mutations, mean that for those people, that enzyme (the specific enzyme is called CYP2D6) isn't able to metabolise as well as the other 90%. However even within this simple example, there lies variability where one person may just feel a little ill to someone else being knock unconscious!

I personally find this example interesting since this one (and many others in it's family) also metabolise anything from White Grapefruit Juice, to certain anti-depressants, to an the OP said codeine (and codeine analogues like morphine or oxycodone).

And this is just one example. Another one many people not know is the enzyme which breaks down alcohol (called alkoholdehydrogenase) is most often (again to varying degrees) defective in people from Asian decent. That's why, if you've every noticed, it doesn't take much for an Asian person to get drunk basically because their body just can't processes it as well at, say Westerners.


Did I explain myself? If you have any questions, PM me! I'd be happy to explain whatever I can

He he...its cool, man. We all had those sleepless nights. And yeah, I knew about Asians not able to metabolize alcohol as well as other races. Didnt know about that CYP2D6 enzyme though.

edit: And to do the dude who said you can OD on codeine, I'm pretty sure you can't because codeine has a ceiling effect because of how it is metabolized, the ceiling effect is around 500mg if I remember correct. The only time it can be dangerous is if someone has a really bad reaction to the histamines, however that's why they add anti-histamine to the dose^_^

correct me if I'm wrong though

I think you might be right. I been reading some shit online and its usually the other ingredients codeine comes with that kills you (like acetaminophen, which will fry your liver).

Having said that you could probably still kill your self on codeine alone, if you tried very, VERY hard. Like gallons of the stuff.....LOL.

Interestingly enough, codeine OD is what killed Howard Hughes (or so says wiki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drug-related_deaths

 

[DexterMeth]

I'm part Asian, and I get shitfaced very easily, however the Irish and German in me never tell me to stop.

 

[CrimpJiggler]

2. You can OD on codeine, so be careful

You sure about that? Codeine is the prodrug of morphine and only a certain amount (around 400mg if I'm not mistaken) can be metabolised at a time. If you can overdose on codeine, I don't think it would be the respiratory depressant effects of morphine that causes the symptoms. It would be the other drugs in the mixture that I'd be worried about.

The brompheniramine has a boiling point of about 65 celsius (or 152F). You could try heating up the mixture at those temps for 1/2 hr and hopefully the brompheniramine will be mostly gone.

But you'd still be left with the phenylephrine which has a very high boiling point

Yep, thats a good plan to get rid of the antihistamine. The idea that low temperatures (i.e. 00C) causes opiates like codeine to decompose is a myth so I wouldn't worry about that. I reckon phenylephrine would be soluble in polar solvents like methanol and acetone.

OP: From now on, post more info so the people replying don't have to go searching for it themselves. What salt is the codeine and phenylephrine? I'm guessing its phenylephrine hydrochloride but what about the codeine? Is it codeine phosphate?

Also some rappers have died from codeine overdoses in southern US, were they likely defective in this gene also then??

There were most likely other drugs involved.

 

[tyrael]

You sure about that? Codeine is the prodrug of morphine and only a certain amount (around 400mg if I'm not mistaken) can be metabolised at a time. If you can overdose on codeine, I don't think it would be the respiratory depressant effects of morphine that causes the symptoms. It would be the other drugs in the mixture that I'd be worried about.....

Agreed! Not purely on certain effects observe alone! Extremely large doses as Crimp said would course other adverse/negative affects. Obviously due to many, many more issues then mentioned above.

Yep, thats a good plan to get rid of the antihistamine. The idea that low temperatures (i.e. 00C) causes opiates like codeine to decompose is a myth so I wouldn't worry about that. I reckon phenylephrine would be soluble in polar solvents like methanol and acetone.

I

Cheers for that Crimp - a little more detail. (not entirely interested in that area but keeping them keen).

And finally.....

OP: From now on, post more info so the people replying don't have to go searching for it themselves. What salt is the codeine and phenylephrine? I'm guessing its phenylephrine hydrochloride but what about the codeine? Is it codeine phosphate?

There were most likely other drugs involved.

In terms of (molecular/drug design), processees, time, etc. Codeine is generally easily synth'd, and due to a variety of reasons the end result is (always?) Codeine (3-Methylmorphine) Phosphate. Yes, other salt forms do exist and are commonly used - no idea the property of each though or as to why one may us one over another! And like you said, Phenylephrine (and quite a few numbers today's drugs are in their salt HCI form! Pain pro make them a lot more stable! However if you were ask a decent AH


Here's where I kinda disagree - and tbh both sides of the argument could use - there is a generally, slow yet constant