Can we have a thread here to discuss the current lounge rules?

[SA]

I think the Lounge is fine the way it is. It gives the boys a place to play while the other forums, the focus of Bluelight, are conducted relatively unhindered. If you take that away what's being complained about now will just spill over into all the places it shouldn't be.

I don't agree. Whatever undesired behaviour spills over will simply be moderated as already takes place daily now. If the moderators of the other BL forums really didn't give a shit and though of The Lounge as the shitbucket that many here think others see it as, they would move every single shitty thread which got started in their forum over to The Lounge. Instead, many of those shitty threads get closed and disappear into the void, displaying not only their own decency and common sense, but a degree of respect for The Lounge, its staff and visitors.

What I keep hearing here, in not so many words, in response to the proposition that quality/image/decorum of The Lounge needs to be changed for the better is "it can't be done". It can't, or you don't want it to?

michael, jaded is no less valid.

edit: I can't spell!!!

 

[zephyr]

Eh, if the mods of other forums think the lounge is a shitbucket then they can stick it up their arse. They lurk there regardless.

 

[SA]

They don't. That was the gist of my statement!

 

[Infinite Jest]

Eh, if the mods of other forums think the lounge is a shitbucket then they can stick it up their arse. They lurk there regardless.

By which logic, one could say "if zephyr doesn't like the new lounge rules then she can stick it up her arse. She'll post there regardless". You opened up a discussion, and so surely everyone has a right to put their opinion in. Certainly mods.

 

[SA]

Just to clarify, my "They don't" was in response to "if the mods of other forums think the lounge is a shitbucket".

 

[Samadhi]

Being one of the Aus Social mods, i thought, considering that my forum has received a little bit of a bashing here, i'll excercise my right of reply:

As zephyr said, we've had consistent rules for years, and have tweaked and adjusted them as appropriate. We don't allow personal attacks, overt racism, sexism or anything that defames any group. Some may think that this makes our forum dead, boring, whatever... and that's fiine. I'm just not understanding why, when certain people feel this way, that they continue to post in the forum? I'm confused...seriously.

It is, but it still very over moderated and over edited. The threads are far more interesting before they are mopped up and participation in them dives down to zero after they are edited. Whats the point in bothering if you can't post what you actually think? Jeez, most people aren't that uptight IRL, should be no different on line.

You can post what you think, just as long as it's not in a personal attacking way. Otherwise it will be edited. I can think of a heap of examples where we've let debate go on, and only when it's gotten totally out of hand, and there have been numerous reports about posts/threads have we edited it. We only really edit something when someone has reported it, and even then, we don't always edit. We do edit without reporting, but only when we see something that is obviously suited to another thread (we merge it) or that breaks forum guidlines.

I think Kat and I have been really fucking lenient with alot of things, and have let posts/threads slide, even when they're breaking forum guidelines. We've let alot of off-topic threads/posts stay, but there is a line that isn't going to be crossed. Gone are the days of anna! and psychokitten... i'm not sure, but were you around then (you were when anna! was mod, but not sure about psychokitten?) If not, you'd not realise just how much less uptight the forum really is... there was a reason those girls were called forum nazis.

I can name a few threads where we've had to mop up crap... namely the Indigenous Australian thread... and i'm sorry, but we're not going to have posts with pictures depicting Aboriginals in a derogatory way, and not going to allow posts comparing Aboriginals to gorillas, ffs. In the sexism thread, we're not going to allow joking about rape. If you think that constitutes a dead forum then so be it. I'll expect not to see you (or beatlebot - our 2 most vocal anti-aus social voices) back there again.

I have no personal issue with you, liz, you know that... but i just don't understand why there has to be this constant niggling at the way we run our forum. Each forum has guidelines, and yes, we may be stricter than other social forums, but hell, that's the way the place is run... and again, i'll say, if you think it's shit, then why keep posting there? There's alot of good in Aus Social, and the way it keeps being spoken about could be a reason why someone like TLB hasn't bothered visiting.

(I'm imagining Aus Social as I've never been there but have an idea considering how it's been referenced in this thread).

By 2 or 3 people... who have had issues with the way the forum is run because at various times, have had their posts edited and have gotten the shits. A lot of people love Aus Social, and we have a huge member base... it can't be all that bad? The stats speak for themselves; we are also one of the top 3 busiest forums on bluelight ... If we were that horrible a place to post, don't you think our thread/post count would be a lot smaller? We currently have 3,096 threads and 281,582 posts.

We may be bashed by a few key members of bluelight, but i'll tell you all the the negative comments are far outweighed by the positive comments i receive by PM about Aus Social and the way we run our forum... Also, not all of us in Aus Social bash the lounge, I post in the lounge occasionally too. I'm not going to compare the two, because there is no comparison... one isn't better than the other other, they're just very different.

Anyway, that's all i'm saying on the topic of Aus Social, and i'd like to thank MazDan for the support, you're one of my most valued contributors on the forum (and i've said this to you before), but thanks. It's appreciated.

 

[GenericMind]

I don't agree. Whatever undesired behaviour spills over will simply be moderated as already takes place daily now.

Then where exactly will members go to speak freely? Of course you can force any kind of change you want with heavy-handed Moderation but, and maybe I'm wrong, that seems to go against what Bluelight stands for.

I keep hearing people refer to the Lounge as an embarrassment to Bluelight. The Lounge is just a manifestation of the personalities of Bluelight's members. Sure, some may be more vocal than others but everyone has the ability to post what they think there, and it wouldn't take a Moderator's intervention to completely change the atmosphere of the Lounge. Members could do that themselves if they wanted to. Calling the Lounge an embarrassment is the same as calling the members of Bluelight an embarrassment. There are plenty of people who practice "undesirable" behavoir in the Lounge that contribute just as much or more as others in the focus forums. If you tamper with the Social aspect of the forum you'll be inderectly tampering with the Harm Reduction aspect of the forum.

The Lounge will always serve its purpose even if the needs of the members change over time. Trying to force some kind of policy where there isn't need for one is just going to end up driving contributing members away.

 

[DarthMom]

i have never gone into aussie social much...at all really...but skimming samadhis post and reading a bit of everyone else i am thinking that the problem here isn't overt racism or trollish behavior but acceptance of others sometimes disturbing sense of humor and the ability to or lack of ability to accept it.

i mean, srsly, real racism, never accepted. real hatefullness, it doesn't happen. bottom line, lounge wants to get rid of the offensive shit. whether it is malicious or simply deliciously twisted, they want to keep a certain level of decorum. i find that to be fine. but don't twist it into blaming others of shit they don't deserve..i.e. racist assholes.

just say it, you want a classy place. no shit. that is fine, but don't act like this is some kind of retribution on trolls, it is a long needed somehow agreed upon stance upon no more icky people. let's all show these people what kind of bubblegum coca cola soccer moms and pops we really are, without the real flavor.

nothing wrong with that, but, just admit it. all the bullshit boring ass threads going on right now that would normally be closed with a quickness already say what you are too afraid to.

 

[L2R]

DM, there's nothing to indicate that anyone intends to make the lounge less offensive. I, personally, love it's offensive nature and have actively participated in arserapes and bigotry of various means in lighthearted and creative ways.

The problem here, is the the redundancy's of several user's posting habits. The acceptance level of what was once easily regarded as trolling has been stretched too far.

Images are fine, like in your case, you used it once. But if you then posted it in reply to every thread, that would be boring as fuck, which is what a lot of the lounge has become, therefore: crackdown.

Trying to force some kind of policy where there isn't need for one is just going to end up driving contributing members away.

Yes, well, not doing anything when several members use every thread as their personal pissing ground has also driven valuable members away.

 

[UnSquare]

AusSocDef

another historical note: every now and again the lounge gets out of hand. back when i had a say in such matters, my solution was to always first try and PM these people and ask them to stop...

It worked first time fo' me...

Also, not all of us in Aus Social bash the lounge, I post in the lounge occasionally too.

Me too. I enjoy many of the threads.

I try an' keep my writin' fairly coherent..

(Sorry AmorRoark, I was stoned an' was gonna delete that shit...
...yes, I realize it wasn' in 'The Lounge'... )

A lot of people love Aus Social,
and we have a huge member base... it can't be all that bad?

No.
An' many people try an' keep it int'restin',
informative,
humorous
& fresh
all the time.

I could start namin' names,
but it seem's, like any other forum,
to have waves & dips in "NEW IDEAS"
& "THREADS",
an'
on occasion have lull periods,
where someone drags out a complaint thread,
claimin' STAGNANT(!),
but older-joined board memebers
usually chucke up a chuckle post,
as--->
people have a swashbuckle,
an' in a week or two every'thin's moved forward...

There are constantly new participants
&,
as long as they don' caus malice,
they're welcomed with open computer-robot arms.

It's a bit of a Mix Of
"A" Lounge,
Second Opinion,
With A small Side Serve of DC.

It generates PLENTY of informative threads.

Anyway, props to our mods...
...Good Post Miss S...

And in closin',
I think The Lounge is just goin' through
one of those said periods above...

Bring out Your Dead.

Peace
UnS

 

[zephyr]

^Aussie doesn't seem to have as much activity anymore and I think pops and Fatz should stop working/having lives a bit and come back. Problem solved there.

Lounge has benefitted a lot from this thread, it seems a lot of the old lurkers have read it and had a look there :D

Its understandable that the posters who used to make the lounge as great as it was a while ago drift off into the sunset....when their comrades who they used to post it up leave for reasons of their own, its not the same place it once was for them either and they drift off as well. Its never going to be what it once was because they just aren't going to come back.

I think its improved a bit since this discussion was started though- the newer posters are worth having a banter with for sure.

 

[Samadhi]

^Aussie doesn't seem to have as much activity anymore and I think pops and Fatz should stop working/having lives a bit and come back. Problem solved there.

I'm not sure why you think that, Aus Social is one of the most busy forums? I guess the threads just aren't your cup of tea, and that's cool - but just because you don't enjoy the forum, doesn't mean that a heap of other people don't. This is the beauty of bluelight - there are threads in the lounge that you wouldn't think of posting in Aus Social as they'd be assraped and there are threads in Aus Social that you wouldn't think of posting in the Lounge - because they'd be assraped.

RE: Fatz and Pop Popavich - yes, they were/are valued members of the forum, but people come and go, and i personally don't think that there is a black hole left that will never be filled *sob*. It would be cool to see them post again, but if i remember correctly, numerous people were complaining about the fact that Fatz only posted about chicken. As for Mr Popavich, well, he was stinky.

Anyway RE the lounge: I hope that whatever it is that's going on is sorted, I like the lounge and think it serves a real purpose. I don't agree with some of the threads posted, but that's me - and i'm sure people feel the same way about Aus Social... and that's ok too.

 

[zephyr]

I'm not sure why you think that, Aus Social is one of the most busy forums? I guess the threads just aren't your cup of tea, and that's cool - but just because you don't enjoy the forum, doesn't mean that a heap of other people don't. This is the beauty of bluelight - there are threads in the lounge that you wouldn't think of posting in Aus Social as they'd be assraped and there are threads in Aus Social that you wouldn't think of posting in the Lounge - because they'd be assraped.

I don't think Aus Social is as busy as it once was because of the amount of posts per day being rather low- probably the only statistic that I bother with.

 

[UnSquare]

I don't think Aus Social
is as busy as it once was
because of the amount
of posts
per day
being rather low
- probably the only statistic that I bother with.

Pinchied the Lobster A'copoula Weeks Ago...
(possibly from DD., which he possibly pinch'd from someone else... ):

I am suspicious of order, systems, and so forth, because the human mind seeks out patterns, and orders things on its own, without help from the "me" that's typing. - atlas

The three great elemental sounds in nature are the sound of rain, the sound of wind in a primeval wood, and the sound of outer ocean on a beach.-henry beston


Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein


Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable. ~Bobby Bragan, 1963


On Stastics:

Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything. ~Gregg Easterbrook


98% of all statistics are made up. ~Author Unknown


Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein


Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable. ~Bobby Bragan, 1963


Statistics can be made to prove anything - even the truth. ~Author Unknown


Statistics are human beings with the tears wiped off. ~Paul Brodeur, Outrageous Misconduct


Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. ~Author Unknown


Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math. ~Author Unknown


He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts - for support rather than for illumination. ~Andrew Lang


One more fagot of these adamantine bandages is the new science of Statistics. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


Statistics are like women; mirrors of purest virtue and truth, or like whores to use as one pleases. ~Theodor Billroth


Do not put your faith in what statistics say until you have carefully considered what they do not say. ~William W. Watt


Then there is the man who drowned crossing a stream with an average depth of six inches. ~W.I.E. Gates


There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up. ~Rex Stout, Death of a Doxy


I always find that statistics are hard to swallow and impossible to digest. The only one I can ever remember is that if all the people who go to sleep in church were laid end to end they would be a lot more comfortable. ~Mrs. Robert A. Taft


Satan delights equally in statistics and in quoting scripture.... ~H.G. Wells, The Undying Fire


The average human has one breast and one testicle. ~Des McHale


While the individual man is an insoluble puzzle, in the aggregate he becomes a mathematical certainty. You can, for example, never foretell what any one man will be up to, but you can say with precision what an average number will be up to. Individuals vary, but percentages remain constant. So says the statistician. ~Arthur Conan Doyle


A statistical analysis, properly conducted, is a delicate dissection of uncertainties, a surgery of suppositions. ~M.J. Moroney


Statistics may be defined as "a body of methods for making wise decisions in the face of uncertainty." ~W.A. Wallis


After all, facts are facts, and although we may quote one to another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, "Lies - damned lies - and statistics," still there are some easy figures the simplest must understand, and the astutest cannot wriggle out of. ~Leonard Courtney, speech, August 1895, New York, "To My Fellow-Disciples at Saratoga Springs," printed in The National Review (London, 1895) (Thank you, Mark)


Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." ~Mark Twain, autobiography, 1904 (but, as yet no actual record of this under Disraeli's authorship)


The theory of probabilities is at bottom nothing but common sense reduced to calculus. ~Laplace, Théorie analytique des probabilités, 1820


I abhor averages. I like the individual case. A man may have six meals one day and none the next, making an average of three meals per day, but that is not a good way to live. ~Louis D. Brandeis


The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic. ~Joe Stalin, comment to Churchill at Potsdam, 1945


I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity. ~George Gallup​

And then?

...

Sorry.

 

[-Guido-]

^

 

[UnSquare]

^
You can' alway's jus' use a Monsta-Bean, Or Pear!

Haven' ' you check'd 'The New Lounge Rules'
www.bluelight.tbs.lounge.ru.

Damn!

 

[-Guido-]

It was just quite a read lol. Enjoyable though. What the hell is that link? The entire site is Russian. I don't get the joke... Maybe I'm clicking it wrong. I'll try a few more times.

 

[GenericMind]

Yes, well, not doing anything when several members use every thread as their personal pissing ground has also driven valuable members away.

While I'm sure that's true, it has probably only driven valuable members away from the Lounge itself. There are still several options for people seeking lighthearted social discussion, like the regional social forums.

On the other hand, there aren't any other forums that are like the Lounge. If you take away that unique social aspect of the forums and leave people with nowhere comparable to go, you're going to be driving valuable members away permanently.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Then where exactly will members go to speak freely? Of course you can force any kind of change you want with heavy-handed Moderation but, and maybe I'm wrong, that seems to go against what Bluelight stands for.

I keep hearing people refer to the Lounge as an embarrassment to Bluelight. The Lounge is just a manifestation of the personalities of Bluelight's members. Sure, some may be more vocal than others but everyone has the ability to post what they think there, and it wouldn't take a Moderator's intervention to completely change the atmosphere of the Lounge. Members could do that themselves if they wanted to. Calling the Lounge an embarrassment is the same as calling the members of Bluelight an embarrassment. There are plenty of people who practice "undesirable" behavoir in the Lounge that contribute just as much or more as others in the focus forums. If you tamper with the Social aspect of the forum you'll be inderectly tampering with the Harm Reduction aspect of the forum.

The Lounge will always serve its purpose even if the needs of the members change over time. Trying to force some kind of policy where there isn't need for one is just going to end up driving contributing members away.

I'd like to address this, if I may. To think that BL should allow nearly whatever our members desire - allowing them to speak freely - could be disasterous for this site. While our focus is HR, our strength is the community. What we allow to have posted is a direct influence on the perception others have of our community. So, we don't allow dealing and sources - for obvious legal reasons for the members and the site. We don't allow [insert list from BLUA] in order to create an environment that is safe from harassment. Likewise, the LOUNGE, while being robbed of most of it's non-jovial postings by other split off forums, still needs a minimum level of what is acceptable. This 'minimum' line has been a wide gray chasm for quite sometime, and this particular thread is both pointing out the difficulty of moderating such a wide gap but also mobilizing the posters to be more aware of the impact of what they post - it's more than just a laugh, it's a sign to the world that such content and behaviour is acceptable, if not encouraged, on this site.

Every community has a scope of what is permitted. You won't find the Catholic Priests website having any child porn on it - they can't afford the damage, even if it's posted in a joking manner because a few of the members think it's funny. You won't find a political site allowing certain commentary as it would be damaging to their gameplans, and possibly embarrassing even if posted in jest because of others who could see it (in or out of context) and the way it would pervert the site's image and their goals. People who wish to post such content on a community site and aren't permitted to have other places they can go for such activities. Those sites won't allow it, and don't have to.

Your point, if I understand it correctly, is that a large part of BL's underpinnings has been the open minded and non-judgemental approach to our members and their activities. In a drug sense, this is true - however, we don't condone or encourage it, we only seek to educate so that such activity will be as harmless as possible for the population. To think that the open minded approach extends to the non-HR forums is mostly true, but not absolute. This falls back to the true foundation of the site - it is not a democracy. Posting is not a right, it's a privilege afforded by the owner who has entrusted the staff (from Admins down) to operate in the best interest of the HR goals.

If the members who degrade our site with undesirable content in the LOUNGE can't post it there, it WILL NOT spill over into other forums. As noted, the other forums would be as strong or stronger in restricting such postings. Such members can find other places on the web to post such content. If we lose their contributions to this site, that is their choice - we don't have to be everything to everyone, and in fact we'd die if we tried. Those members are still welcome to share appropriate content with out site, or leave if they can't have everything they want in one place - their choice.

We've survived the departure of many key contributors, some of whom were probably more perverted and twisted than some of the current LOUNGE rats, but they kept it off the site. Moreover, we survived their departure and have continued to grow - I wouldn't get too concerned if a few members left us altogether based on our wish to keep the site's image more presentable and acceptable. We will survive. It's not ideal, and I wish we could keep everyone, but I understand it is ultimately their choice where to spend their online time - likewise it is our choice to determine if something is acceptable or not.

Again, that's a gray area to date, but the simplest litmus test I can offer still has two stages. First for the OP, would they want their name tied to such content. Second for the mods entrusted to run the forum for the overall site - would this hurt out site or our goals? Yes, the concept of censorship is abhorrent to all of us, but so is a site that allows everything and anything. I'll trade those few contributing members, and their content in the LOUNGE for a site that doesn't host things detrimental to our HR goals and community image. I agree with your point that the LOUNGE is a reflection of our membership, however it is only a few that have expressed themselves in ways that would bring down our image and reputation - they think they only represent themselves, but they make a mark that is seen by the world as to representing our site overall - this is why it's an issue. Keep in mind, we're not looking to water down or nueter the forum, simply get it back into a state that does not keep away potentially valuable members, or attract the wrong kind, simply because of what lurkers see in the forum.

Please note, everything I've written has been in the first person, because they are the thoughts of only myself. I don't speak for the Admins overall, because more critical to us than censorship is the fear of absolute rule, so we Admins as a team make decisions. But we also rely heavily on our staff to help enforce the guidelines and goals we set before the site, and even moreso on the members to offer content in the best interest of the site. Heavy handed moderation isn't necessary, as you say, if the members choose to change their posting content in a positive way.



One final note - an apology to AUSSoc. My comments in no way were intended to belittle the forum. My statement of not going there is not a reflection of forum content or moderation, it was a reflection of my lack of time to spend online. That is the sole reason. I apologize if my words indicated otherwise.

[Edited for 'whom' not 'who' 8)]

 

[Samadhi]

TLB: No offense taken at all, i just wanted to stand up for our little piece of land here on the world wide web. If you can look past the craft workshops, stamp-collecting groups and worm-farmers, AusSoc is "hip", "happening" and "cool" place to be.