Can tests detect a secondary substance if MDxx is present?

[Corona]

Hi everyone. I know that if any MDxx substance is present in a pill is present, it will turn blue-black. You don't know if you're getting MDMA, MDA or MDEA from what I understand, just the MDxx family. DXM turns yellow to brown. 2CT-7 turns red to purple. *However, if the pills contain MDxx plus another substance, something potentially very harmful, will it show up? My guess is that no it wouldn't considering that MDxx turns a very dark colour, anything else would be unable to be seen.
*Am I correct in this assumption?
*If it is true that a secondary substance won't show up under MDxx, how can anyone be even remotely sure that it doesn't contain a secondary, harmful substance?
*Are there any other ways to guard against the possibility of a secondary and harmful substance?
*Are there any other safety precautions that one can take to ensure that they are as safe as possible, and that there are no more unexpected things in their pills?
*Has anyone ever taken a pill that tested as MDxx and had a bad, unexpected reaction due to something else being present in the pill they weren't aware of?
Thanks!

 

[johnboy]

if any MDxx substance is present in a pill is present, it will turn blue-black. ... DXM turns yellow to brown. 2CT-7 turns red to purple.
There is a lot to answer here and will when I get time but i have to pull you up on the above. This is a mish-mash of reactions from a couple of different types of testers.
MDxx will give a blue-black reaction to Marquis, but will give a blue/green reaction to Mecke.
DXM turns grey/black wtih smoke to Marquis but gives a yellow reaction to Mecke.
2C-T-7 gives NO reaction to Marquis but will give a red/brown reaction with Mecke.
So basically you have the reactions from two different reagents mixed up.
Compare these two charts:

Actually I disagree with these Dancesafe charts as you can tell the differene between DXM ad MDxx wih Marquis.
I'll post more on all of this in a sec.

 

[aj]

"if the pills contain MDxx plus another substance, something potentially very harmful, will it show up"
If this other substance is a primary amine, EZ Test X-TREME will indicate so.
"how can anyone be even remotely sure"
Testkits ONLY INDICATE !
"Has anyone ever taken a pill that tested as MDxx and had a bad, unexpected reaction due to something else being present"
Happens all the time....
"safety precautions that one can take"
Use EZ Test X-TREME, especially Robadope to find out whether your pill contains more than just MDMA (or MDEA).
Hope this helps
aj

 

[djfriendly]

I have the older DS Marquis chart from before the newer kits were introduced, and it has a more accurate set of reactions, including the difference between DXM and MDxA. If you like, I'd be happy to scan it for you, it's much better than the new one, which seems to me a "dumbed-down" version. Let me know here or at [email protected] if you want it and how to get it to you.
peace, Mike
[ 22 July 2002: Message edited by: djfriendly ]

 

[PlurredChemistry]

to answer your question really shortly,
a simple chemical test can not determine the presence of multiple chemicals (especially if MDXX is present)
the only way to really do this is with multiple chemical tests (different reagents) or a more powerful test (LC/MS, GC/MS etc)

 

[johnboy]

djfriendly: what would be even better would be if you could convince em to ditch that colour chart and put the real one back on the site. oh and drop all that "superior test" bullshit

 

[Roches]

plurred, a simple chemical test can easily be adapted to indicate the presence of several chemicals. all you'd have to do is run a TLC on it, or maybe even paper chromatography. TLC isn't exactly best suited for very polar substances, but i'm sure i could come up with a protocol if i did some experimenting with it - and it's possible that you could use a relatively benign solvent phase, like maybe isopropanol:water or methanol:water.
TLC isn't at all difficult to perform - the plates are widely available and it takes little practice to do successfully. and you could quite easily separate the various colors that would result from a test, much as you can use chromatography to separate black pen ink into its component colors.

 

[djfriendly]

Originally posted by johnboy:
djfriendly: what would be even better would be if you could convince em to ditch that colour chart and put the real one back on the site. oh and drop all that "superior test" bullshit
lol I'd get the same answer you would...I'm not involved in making the kits or instructions unfortunately, just answering the questions! The word superior is rather strong, I gotta agree. My personal line is that if you live in the US, you should be using Marquis and Mecke both. I like to give people's intelligence and power of observation the benefit of the doubt, but on the other hand I believe if you set up a scenario where many subjects were tested on their ability to distinguish DXM from MDMA with Marquis alone, you'd get several wrong guesses. If you gave them Marquis AND Mecke, they'd get them all right.
So what I'm saying is I agree with you, but I also agree with the philosophy guiding the DS policy as well. It is a sometimes a delicate balancing act between giving every possible fact, and giving good advice.

 

[johnboy]

if you live in the US, you should be using Marquis and Mecke both
I agree entirely. This is what I feel should be more strongly emphasised at dancesafe.
And that's really the point of this whole thread; no one test will work for everything, so every additional test that's done will increase the chances of picking up an undesirable substance.

 

[PlurredChemistry]

Originally posted by Roches:
plurred, a simple chemical test can easily be adapted to indicate the presence of several chemicals. all you'd have to do is run a TLC on it, or maybe even paper chromatography. TLC isn't exactly best suited for very polar substances, but i'm sure i could come up with a protocol if i did some experimenting with it - and it's possible that you could use a relatively benign solvent phase, like maybe isopropanol:water or methanol:water.
TLC isn't at all difficult to perform - the plates are widely available and it takes little practice to do successfully. and you could quite easily separate the various colors that would result from a test, much as you can use chromatography to separate black pen ink into its component colors.
thats true, but most people when refering to simple chemical tests, mean just that...TLC is simple to me now, but i wouldn't consider that a simple chemical test for most people. You or I oculd just say "run a TLC on it" but most people would need exact directions (probably w/ diagrams)
i've actually been thinking about trying to develop an OTC method to do this...hmmm...this could be our chance to bring the KTS much popularity...
i think i've got a summer project now
the solvent systems you are suggesting are a bit too polar i think...i'm thinking EtOAc/Hexanes *but if we were going for OTC chems something else will have to do*
my other project will been to figure out what exactly is forming when MDMA is tested...
TO THE LAB! :D

 

[Roches]

well, i just said "do a TLC" because I knew you'd know what i meant... someone with experience with TLC would have to work on it and find the best solvent system before posting more detailed instructions.
TLC plates aren't OTC but they're easily available from chemical supply companies and websites. there's nothing at all sketchy about silica gel on aluminum.
i suggested iPrOH:H2O or MeOH:H2O because those are fairly readily available. and remember we're working with polar samples, so a polar solvent system might work. on the other hand, you might get no separation. EtOAc:hexane of course is the standard TLC solvent mixture, but neither EtOAc nor hexane are readily available. if i was doing this in a lab, i'd probably start with EtOAc:hexane with 5% MeOH added (because the samples are polar).
ideally the OTC version wouldn't use non-polar solvents since those are much more difficult to work with. unfortunately, it may be unavoidable. the ideal solvent mixture would be iPrOH:water because both are very easy to obtain. if non-polar solvents are required, remember that only toluene and naphtha (~ pentanes) are readily available. acetone as well. so toluene:acetone might be feasible, but it's probably too dangerous for totally untrained users.